CCRP and CCIP a few questions

[fixen]

Does CCRP not work correctly in the mirage? The bombs fall way to long. It's not inaccuracy, because they fall long around the same spot every time. The pipper is just wrong. I could not find a recent thread about this (though I know it was a issue some time ago). Is it me doing something wrong, or does this still need repairs. I follow both chuck's guide aswell as the official manual.

 

Then CCIP. I get a (do not release?) cross almost every time I run in on a target. My dive is around 20 to 25 degrees like in the manual and my altitude is still very safe. I can release to bombs just fine and they hit the target very nicely, but I don't get why I get the cross.

**While typing this I did some more testing and it's the safe altitude cue that is causing this. I have no idea why though, cause I am still at a safe altitude. Yes, I am going down to the ground fast, but the manual recommends a 25 degree dive angle. I tried many different altitudes and dive angles and it seems only in some shallow dives it doesn't show up. But the manual recommends a steep dive.

 

And another thing about CCIP in the Mirage. I thought it was designed so that you could fly level and fast so that the pipper will move in front of the aircraft and you could get in real low. It works fine, but again, that damn cross (due to the safe altitude cue).

 

The safe altitude cue is a bit of a weird thing considering the CCIP bombs are snake eyes and thus retarded. They are made so that even very low altitude bombing is still safe. Which it is also in the Mirage. The bombs explode very far behind the aircraft even at very low altitudes. So why the cross?

 

DCS version 1.5.5

[Shadow_1stVFW]

I have the same issue. I don't know exactly what the issue is. I've done a lot of testing so, a few things. On your dives, check if you are faster that 0.8 or .82, or something like that, I tested that and it was a a break X every time. Moving too fast. I don't know if that number is correct, but it's there.

 

The accuracy, I think it has something to do with the radar ranging and such. I believe the TAS mode is currently less accurate than RS because they don't have the ground mapping nailed down. But that was a while ago. So that may have changed.

 

Lastly, something you may want to look at is your load factor on the jet at the time of the release. If you are not at 1G your CCIP pipper is inaccurate. And the more you are off the more inaccurate it will be.

 

Those are the three best answers I have. I feel you. Hopefully we get an official answer on this. I've been very curious too. I just don't like asking too many questions as sometimes the community is a bit tough on asking questions. But good luck

 

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[bernp]

I believe the cross appears if you're flying too slow or too fast also. I forget what the required speed range is, somewhere between 350-450 maybe? Double check the manual regarding speed requirements for ccip bombing

 

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[jojo]

As far as CCIP is concerned, the lower & the faster the better.

I would advise < 500ft AGL, level flight and >500kt (up to 600kt is ok).

[Kev2go]

yea i have not problems with CCIp bombing, i just wish we had CCIP for Mk82 ( non snakeyeys)

 

the CCRP bombing is really innacurate. lands around the target, but not cloe enough to do any damage.

 

I know its the way the mirge works but thats why i wish we could use CCIP for Mk82s, to Dive bomb. There are just some situations where id rather bomb higher off, begin aproach at say 5000 feet, with a -20- 40 degree dive, and not strike low and fast with Snakeyes

Edited January 29, 2017 by Kev2go

[jojo]

There are 2 problems:

- M-2000C: ranging problem in CCRP. It's better if you aim with the top of the diamond rather than the center.

- DCS World: Next to no area effect on most (if not all) AG munitions. You have to perform direct hit to do damages, which is unrealistic...

 

IRL, Mirage 2000 or F-16 (and probably anything else), a MK-82 within 20m of the target is a good hit.

In DCS it won't do any damage if not dead on !

Edited January 29, 2017 by jojo

[Kev2go]

There are 2 problems:

- M-2000C: ranging problem in CCRP. It's better if you aim with the top of the diamond rather than the center.

- DCS World: Next to no area effect on most (if not all) AG munitions. You have to perform direct hit to do damages, which is unrealistic...

 

IRL, Mirage 2000 or F-16 (and probably anything else), a MK-82 within 20m of the target is a good hit.

In DCS it won't do any damage if not dead on !

 

yes i noticed this too. ANd yes im aware you need a direct hit to do anything.

 

but my point is the bombs are still fall more short or long, than they do using CCIP.

 

Even in a entirely different platform like the A10, dive bombing with 82s using CCIP still results in notably more accurate delivery, than using CCRP in the m2000. . Even if there were realistic splash damage, these still wouldn't destroy targets. maybe cause some minor splash damage at absolute best.

 

but as you say there is a Ranging problem, so perhaps when that gets fixed we will experience better accuracy with CCRP delivery, until then il probably stick with snakeyes and CCIP on the M2000, as i am more satisfied with their accuracy.

 

 

hence me wishing CCIP mode was also available for Mk82s as an alternate option, but knowing these are the RL set modes for the specific munitions type in the m2000, is just something to deal with.

Edited January 29, 2017 by Kev2go

[Shadow_1stVFW]

So, after doing some testing, here is what I learned.

 

First off, to talk about the delivery, for the CCIP I chose to do a 10* Low alt high drag and 30* dive bomb profile. All with TAS selected.

 

10* was started at 2K 350KIAS with a push over at 1.8Nm

30* was started at 8K 350KIAS pull down at 2.0

 

CCRP I only tested 30* delivery

 

I tested deliveries at 1.0G <0.8G and >1.2G constantly monitoring the load factor through the delivery.

 

CCIP

I found that with strict adherence to holding 1G my CEP for dive releases was <50' my best guess was 20-30' over 20 releases. I concluded that my the CCIP is a very accurate delivery when released at 1G.

 

At more or less that 1G, my CEP rose to over 120 over 15 passes. With noticeable lateral and very noticeable longitudinal lateral deviations. Longitudinal deviations were consistent with positive or negative G on the jet at the time of release.

 

My findings on CCRP were in line with the CCIP findings. Noting a similar CEP (~80' 1G / 200 at not 1G). This was mitigated in later releases with ripple release 4 at 10M spacing. I noticed much more lateral deviation in the CCRP passes, probably caused by pilot error.

 

All in all. I found that when employed well, the mission computer provides a VERY accurate release solution IN A DIVE. I did not test level deliveries.

 

 

I would go through and test this for yourself. I learned a few things doing this.

[Azrayen]

Interesting :)

 

As an usual method with this plane for CCRP is, AFAIK, to pull the stick to the stop (to avoid overflying target) = having max g when release (5.5 in "charges" mode)... it's a bit annoying that precision suffers that much.

Perhaps it's normal... after all, bombs are dumb (and when I fly, so is the crew). :D