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How to land this bird


assafm25
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Hi all ,

 

i have the use since the beta version (3-4 years i think )

i fly it this long also .

i watch tens landing tutorials and so..

i know the theory about landing this bird but still ....

i make a good landing only 2 time of 5 and this 2 i think are hard landing to .

 

any idea how can i make a soft great landing on a point ?

 

my setup is :

- Microsoft FFB 2

- X-55 as a collective

- Saitek Pedals

- TIR 5

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

IAF Bell205

IAF Anafa

 

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DCS World Modules: A-10C, FC3, MiG-21BiS, F-86, P-51, KA-50, UH-1H Huey, Mi-8, M2000K, Gazal, Bf109, Mig-15, Hawk and NTTR

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The real trick to this is collective management. In short:

 

1. As you're descending, you should be smoothly reducing your speed.

2. Start your approach at 60 - 80 knots and reduce collective to obtain a descent rate of about 300 - 500 fpm.

3. If you use force trim, you should set it to neutral (center stick) at about 60 knots.

4. Continue slowing your forward speed and once below 40 knots you should begin to slowly and smoothly raise the collective.

5. Once you begin to raise the collective you need to adjust your nose back down to avoid a sudden reduction in airspeed. Airspeed reduction should continue to be smooth and steady.

6. As you get to within about 10 - 15 feet above the ground pull back on the stick slightly to bring it into a near hover and adjust collective to settle in at about 5 feet off the ground. You will then be able to "air taxi" to your spot and arrest the remaining forward speed to a complete hover and then settle the aircraft to the ground.

7. In all the above steps, remember: Collective down, less left pedal. Collective up, more left pedal.

 

Too often in my early days of flying this magnificent bird, I got behind the curve and found myself waiting too long in the approach at raising the collective. I then found myself in VRS (Vortex Ring State) and had to crank the collective up too quickly causing a loss in power (you could hear the engine RPM drop considerably and sometimes a Low RPM audible warning) and usually a hard, unintended contact with the ground. Manage that collective early and if you find yourself in that VRS condition, push forward slightly on the cyclic and smoothly apply some collective. This will let you fly out of the VRS as it is unlikely you will be able to climb out of it. Then go around for another approach.

 

Hope that helps shed some light for you.

 

Highspeed


Edited by Highspeed1964
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OP if you know the theory then you need to turn the theory into practise :)

by erm practising :)

lots..

 

you are probably coming in to steep

 

try coming in at a shallower approach and try to enter ground effect before you lose transitional lift.

 

then you can deal with the two transitions separately. and learn them.

 

try to stay above 40mph and get below 20 ft on the radar altimeter. then brake down to a stationary hover. then land.

avoiding VRS is easy this way.

 

when your happy with that then try taking on the two transitions together.

entering ground effect and losing transitional lift at the same time.

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you don't land the huey, huey lands you when she wants.

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Find out what your torque for a 5 foot hover is, (about 31% on a slick with doorgunners) Make sure your not descending above 500fpm and have enough torque set to cusion you as you enter IGE

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Good tips!! I have gotten pretty good at spot landing here the last month or so, but it has taken HOURS AND HOURS of practice. That's the biggest takeaway for me. I also play a lot of guitar, and getting pretty alright on the six string was the same.....if you don't put in the hours and hours of practice you won't get the result you want.

 

HighSpeed - thanks for the rate of decent spec. I think this might be the last piece of the puzzle for me. I usually start my approaches at 60 unless it's a rapid stop kind of situation, then 80 is my planned speed, but I think I am going to try out this ROD trick and see what it does for my flying.

 

~S

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It Does! Take hours and hours of practice that is, well for me it is.

 

Transition to a hover then drop the Huey in. Latter you can do it in one movement.

 

For the Huey look at the horizon and pick a reference point about 15 to 20 metres out. the ground is about level with your ears when on the ground (may need to adjust monitor height).

 

Collective control is important as has been said.

 

I am using a slider on the Logitech Extreme 3D joystick and to get a better feel (YMMV) I use some curvature on the control to make finer thrust adjustments at near ground and hover and given the small amount of travel the slider. For my setup on NTTR DCS 2.04 Curvature is set to 27.

 

I also find cyclic X and Y work well with my setup with saturation at between 40 and 50 this kinda tames the beast.

 

Also I have Saitek combat pro pedals with Curvature set to -16. (I also need to remove centre detente as per this excellent "how To"

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=73311

 

I also find the sound of the rotor and turbine helpful in understanding the aircraft's situation.

 

After a while you'll fly it (almost instinctively) by the seat of your pants. :thumbup:

 

And yes the Gazelle is getting a bit like that too. :pilotfly:

 

 

 

(no flame wars please there both fun to fly in DCS 2.0.x)

 

Also tell me I do way too much DCS and I need :helpsmilie: .

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Hours and hours of practice. The Huey is by far the easiest helo to fly. The mi8 and gazelle will really challenge you if you think the Huey is hard.

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The Huey is by far the easiest helo to fly.

 

Well, the easiest would actually be the Ka-50. But the UH-1H is the easiest conventional helicopter we have :P But yeah, I know what you mean & you're right as well...

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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Um maybe haven't tried the Mi8 but the Gazelle well yes it's a bit interesting I have applied a satiation of 28 to the X and Y of the joystick and using the slider on the joystick with curvature of 37 as my collective. That's on my Logitech 3D extreme that kinda tames the beast. I have spent many hours in the Huey and kinda feel confident in it, it took about 15 hours and I now have that smile on my face when flying the gazelle I nearly gave up on it but a few forum members encouraged me to continue and I'm glad I did.

 

The Huey is easier to pickup compared to the Gazelle both are great to fly and each have their own character. :thumbup:

 

Waiting for a Hind or a Cobra next,.. :pilotfly:

 

Gotta say it get a rift it will help with your flying.

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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snipx but I have heard the Gazelle is a rodeo compared to the Huey. snipx

 

Is this not so?

 

No not really I love throwing the Huey around but the Gazelle well it's a Gazelle.

 

 

Prolly download it then watch. :music_whistling:

Control is an illusion which usually shatters at the least expected moment.

Gazelle Mini-gun version is endorphins with rotors. See above.

 

Currently rolling with a Asus Z390 Prime, 9600K, 32GB RAM, SSD, 2080Ti and Windows 10Pro, Rift CV1. bu0836x and Scratch Built Pedals, Collective and Cyclic.

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Is this not so?

 

The Mi-8 is my main ride in this sim and while it is pretty easy to fly per se, the VRS is just brutal and will kill you if you don't pay attention to those sink rates. But other than that, yeah, it's a pretty stable chopper indeed.

The DCS Mi-8MTV2. The best aviational BBW experience you could ever dream of.

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the mi-8 being a lot bigger has a lot more control delay than the huey.

especially in the collective.

those two big engines take a while to spool up and down.

hence why the VRS is so lethal, to late with the collective and the engines never catch up... and why you have to fly it more sedately.

i like them both. different challenges.

in the world of utility vehicles the Huey is a Jeep and the mi-8 a truck..

the US likes to put MG on jeeps.

the russians like to cover trucks in rockets :)

you can go all Grad/katyusha in the mi-8 :)

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"the mi-8 being a lot bigger has a lot more control delay than the huey." I think they call that "moment"? I heard a gal say it a long time ago, used to fly with us in IL2. She had been an Army pilot, but was medically retired early due to an eye issue. I had asked her about flying the Huey and I am pretty sure that was the word she used?

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Yep! "Moment" and "Arm" are two terms used to describe angular changes in an extended (e.g. wings - rotary or otherwise) component of an aircraft. I'm not sure I understand it all well enough to explain nor what the difference in the two terms is but essentially the "Arm" is a measurement of effectiveness of a control surface whereas a "moment" defines how quickly that control takes effect. So the arm would be determined by how far the control (e.g. the aileron on a fixed wing) is away from the effected axis of movement whereas the moment would be affected by such things as the length and size of that control surface.

 

That is the best of my understanding and I may have the terms reversed but that's essentially what it's all about. So yes, you are remembering the correct term from your discussion with that pilot.

 

Highspeed

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I have not heard "arm" before, but you have "moment" correct. I knew I remembered it right!! I wish I could remember her name, she passed away some years ago. I know she lived in Cali, had a very nice Jeep that she and her husband had restored and tricked out for offroading. She had lost the use of one eye through a malady of some sort and that forced her to get out of the Army, and I remember her being very mature and fun to fly with. Sure would have been neat for her to still be around to see this sim, really.

 

~S

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It sounds more like 'Moment of Inertia' is the correct term here, unfortunately often shortened to just 'Moment', witch is somewhat different but related.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_of_inertia

 

Or maybe just 'Inertia'

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertia

But since the word moment was recognized I would assume the former.

 

'Moment' and 'Arm' is related to each other like:

'Force' (N) x 'Arm' (m) = 'Moment' (Nm)

 

And yes, the force acting on a control surface (force somehow proportional to surface size) a distance (arm) from an axis will act on the axis with corresponding moment.

But it's not really the same as 'Moment of Inertia'

 

/H


Edited by Holton181

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Aaaand.....

To maybe confuse a little bit more.

'Momentum' (not 'Moment'), often confused with 'Inertia'.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Momentum

 

While 'Inertia' being a property of the object itself unaffected by external properties, 'Momentum' being proportional to the velocity of the object.

 

Sorry for the off topic...

/H

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I also did my part of off topic stuffs here and apologize.......sooooo back to sim pilots giving advice to other sim pilots who will eventually figure out their own way eventually.....

 

Highspeed - I was able to hit pretty good with your rate of decent. You want to know what really helped me? Doing autorotations for 3 days straight lol. I had never done them before and decided I'd better start if I was gonna ever be a well rounded DCS Huey pilot......I understood the relationship of trim and cyclic when coming off the collective but never to the extent that I do now. After a few days of auto'ing I was able to set an approach with a given speed based on my ROD and stick spot landings all over the place. 60kts, 80kts, 100kts, didn't matter, ROD up to 1000f/min still good.

 

It's a nice easy approach for the 300-500ft a min and very stable and I now can keep my needles where they need to be for it, and doing the auto's really put it together for me. Thanks for the tips of approach speeds and ROD!!! Now that I understand the stuff I can make my approaches based on the environment (threat, terrain, WX)......

 

~S!!!

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It sounds more like 'Moment of Inertia' is the correct term here, unfortunately often shortened to just 'Moment', witch is somewhat different but related.

 

'Moment' and 'Arm' is related to each other like:

'Force' (N) x 'Arm' (m) = 'Moment' (Nm)

/H

 

Hi Holton,

 

no offense meant, just guessing if you're native language would be german, because

 

Force x Arm = "Torque" in english (whereas moment is rather an "undefined" time unit). Torque is also what you can read among the Huey instrument as reference to the "turning force" the engine must transmit to the rotor(s) controlled by your cyclic.

 

which is not to confuse with "Drehmoment" from German language.

 

Hmmm? :)


Edited by Razor18
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Nope, Swedish. It's "vridmoment" in Swedish.

 

But you are right Razor, and so am I :-)

Torque is specifically for Force x Arm, but it can also more general be called Moment.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moment_(physics)

 

I would say "Moment" is often used when a "passive" force is applied and "Torque" when it's "active". For instance when doing mass and balance calculations while loading your aircraft, "Moment" is used (load placed at a distance from a set reference datum). And for an engine turning a load one uses "Torque".

 

I'm not 100% sure, but the pronunciation of "Moment" in this context should be faster (shorter "O") then when used like "a moment of time". I might stand corrected.

 

/H

Helicopters and Viggen

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Hi Holton,

 

no offense meant, just guessing if you're native language would be german, because

 

Force x Arm = "Torque" in english (whereas moment is rather an "undefined" time unit). Torque is also what you can read among the Huey instrument as reference to the "turning force" the engine must transmit to the rotor(s) controlled by your cyclic.

 

which is not to confuse with "Drehmoment" from German language.

 

Hmmm? :)

 

While it is a unit of time, it's also M = (F)(d)

 

Covered in Statics as moment arm, moment lever etc. Statics was such a great class! I guess it's covered in physics as well, but you really hit it hard in statics.

hsb

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