HOTAS Cougar software on a modern Windows

[Lange_666]

It should be installed when installing the Cougar's software.

Delete by accident?

 

If you want, i can sent the button state app over. Just PM me an e-mail address.

[Habu_69]

I have 2 vintage TM Cougar joysticks (main and spare) I have been using now for about 20 years, using Foxy to program custom key outputs. Using Win 10 1809. As of May 25 Foxy will no longer upload the .tmj files to either device. Upload app just times out. Uninstalled and reinstalled both all the Cougar files and Foxy, but no joy. Really has me stumped! Any suggestions? I suppose I could convert to using the TARGET software, but prefer not to do that. Seems to be some sort of software issue.

[Fakum]

Hmm,,, I have not used mine since Saturday, but it was working fine then, I will check and see if all is well, and make sure Windows 10 is up to date, I last checked for updates about 2 weeks ago. I will let you know.

[Fakum]

I just updated Win 10, all works fine for me. Im not that tech savvy with alot of the file structures, but feel free to ask and I will try and help you the best I can. I am still using Foxy.

[Rudel_chw]

I have 2 vintage TM Cougar joysticks (main and spare) I have been using now for about 20 years, using Foxy to program custom key outputs. Using Win 10 1809. As of May 25 Foxy will no longer upload the .tmj files to either device. Upload app just times out.

 

I use Windows 10 Pro build 1903, and Foxy has no problem downloading onto my Cougar, so I doubt that it would be software incompatibility:

 

 

By any chance are you using Oculus? .. I did have for a while incompatibility issues with the Oculus software, tough I don't remember how I corrected them :(

 

Best regards

[Habu_69]

Using Reverb Pro, not Oculus. Thinking issue is driver/software related as both devices exhibit same behavior. I have tons of experience with these devices, but this has me stumped. May try unplugging all other USB devices to see what happens.

[Ziramond]

So i get the error 2077 when trying to compile my joystick file, except i have already calibrated my cougar and i can navigate to the ccf in the windows viewer. any thoughts?

[Rudel_chw]

So i get the error 2077 when trying to compile my joystick file, except i have already calibrated my cougar and i can navigate to the ccf in the windows viewer. any thoughts?

 

Never had that error myself, and I find nothing in google .. can you expand on it a bit? Your cougar was functioning normal and this issue started out of the blue, or is this a new installation?

[Ziramond]

My cougar does function normally, but i decided to learn more about what i can do with it aside from just plug and play. So i started reading the manuals and learning about what i can do with it, as i can currently do everything in game with either the HOTAS or my mouse EXCEPT...start the engine. So i wanted to find a way to utilize the part of the throttle that is below the idle detent and see if i can use it to start the jet. So i started by clearing windows calibration data, then wiped firmware and reinstalled it, then performed a manual calibration, and then i jumped in to foxy and started with the wizards to learn how to program it. When it came to actually using the "USE THR_RANGE" command, it gives me the error saying it has no CCF and yet the stick according to the CCP is in USER mode for Axis Response and in manual calibration for the calibration mode and lists the file its using for that calibration. Additionally i can actually navigate to the file from my windows viewer, but for some reason, foxy is not aware of it's existance. is that better?

[msmith301]

I am still using HOTAS Cougar also and its programmed in Foxy and I still like it, not too difficult to program but is very powerful at the same time. Still serving me well all these years.

 

Are you able to use the radar cursor control on the throttle?

Is so how did you do it?

[Rudel_chw]

So i wanted to find a way to utilize the part of the throttle that is below the idle detent and see if i can use it to start the jet. So i started by clearing windows calibration data, then wiped firmware and reinstalled it, then performed a manual calibration, and then i jumped in to foxy and started with the wizards to learn how to program it. When it came to actually using the "USE THR_RANGE" command, it gives me the error saying it has no CCF

 

Ok, I understand .. Quoting the manual: "To use the THR_RANGE statement, you must have performed a manual calibration at least once since the last firmware flash. You don't have to be in manual calibration mode to use this statement – it's just that the data collected from the manual calibration is required by the compiler to make this statement work. "

 

and yet the stick according to the CCP is in USER mode for Axis Response and in manual calibration for the calibration mode and lists the file its using for that calibration. Additionally i can actually navigate to the file from my windows viewer, but for some reason, foxy is not aware of it's existance. is that better?

 

Yes it is better. I’m afraid I will not be much help, as I have used the THR_RANGE statement little, because I realized that it reduced the throttle resolution. A big drawback of the Cougar is that its axes are only 8 bits wide, so the throttle only produces 256 different values for the throttle position .. if you take away say 20% for starting engines, the remaining throttle gets reduced to only about 200 different values ... this makes harder to do fine throttle movements, like for AA refueling for example.

 

If I were on your case, I would look for a workaround, for example press a couple of buttons for a couple of seconds, to start the engines, for example T5 + S3 .. the Foxy syntax would be like this:

 

DEF X20 DELAY (2000) T5 AND S3

BTN X20 StartEnginesCommand

 

Best regards

[Rudel_chw]

Are you able to use the radar cursor control on the throttle?

Is so how did you do it?

 

Check here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4357291&postcount=11

[Ziramond]

yea, unfortunately i fly the F-16 and therefore all buttons are spoken for. I really just need to get foxy to acknowledge the existence of my calibration file and i would be set. I already fly with a reduced throttle range as it just feels more natural to have the throttle in game match my throttle. So I'm already not using that 22%~ and it would be nice to be able to use it to start the engine so that i don't have to look through my VR nose slit to press shift+Home/End as that is the only thing i touch my keyboard for at the moment.

[msmith301]

yea, unfortunately i fly the F-16 and therefore all buttons are spoken for. I really just need to get foxy to acknowledge the existence of my calibration file and i would be set.

 

How did you get it to recognize the radar cursor control.

Thru Foxy or the original CCP (Cougar Control Panel) from when these were first manufactured?

Mine are at least 15 years old.

[Lange_666]

Foxy and CCP are part of the Cougar software package.

They can't be individually installed (but can be individually used). Through the CCP you can activate/deactivate axis or re-arange them, set curves etc... and you can load a profile written in Foxy through it. You can also "program" axis and set curves and make actions along the travel of these curves.

Foxy lets' you write the profiles and you can call up the CCP (amongst other things like a key tester and stuff) directly from a toolbar icon or through the dropdown menu in Foxy.

There' s still some info to be found here although part of the links don't work anymore: http://ravico.com/Cw/index.php

Edited June 25, 2020 by Lange_666

[Lange_666]

yea, unfortunately i fly the F-16 and therefore all buttons are spoken for.

Did you really use all the button options like the I O U M D layers for each button?

[msmith301]

Foxy and CCP are part of the Cougar software package.

They can't be individually installed (but can be individually used).

 

Back 20 years ago when I first bought these controls Foxy didn't exist.

It was a third party program that I purchases when it came out. I still have the original CD in the case.

I also recently found I believe, I'm not at home out of town right now, an SW-22 upgrade control board upgrade. Not sure what I bought that for.

[msmith301]

Check here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=4357291&postcount=11

 

I notice you are still using the Cougar HOTAS yourself despite having a pretty high end system.

How come you've never upgraded?

 

Mine is a question of finances. Since I'm just getting back into the game from a 15 year pc hiatus I figured I'd just try to use some of my older stuff. Yes my Cougar HOTAS is at least 15 years old along with the Elite rudder pedals.

As far at the controls go I've been pretty satisfied. Although I did have to repair a broken gimble in my joystick shortly after setting them back up.

Thank god a very generous DCS player saw the forum and had the extra part he sent me.

I've since purchased the Virpil Warbird base to replace the TM joystick base should this happen again which is more than likely. Just haven't had time to set up the new base.

The only other thing I will need to do is purchase the RealSim TUSB converter for my throttle to separate it from the Cougar base.

[Rudel_chw]

I notice you are still using the Cougar HOTAS yourself despite having a pretty high end system.

How come you've never upgraded?

 

:) because I'm actually happy with my Cougar and like the ease of programming of its Foxy software. I once considered replacing it with a Warthog (back when it costed around US$ 350 ... not the inflated post-covid prices), but gave a good look at its TARGET software and that was enough to change my mind .. only a programmer could love TARGET :book:

 

I upgraded the axes pots with the replacements manufactured by @rel4y and while it still has too much play at its center, that is the only drawback on an otherwise brilliant piece of hardware. Here I made a review of his pots:

 

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=225733

 

As far at the controls go I've been pretty satisfied. Although I did have to repair a broken gimble in my joystick shortly after setting them back up.

 

My Cougar was purchased on 2003 and on its 17 years of use I have broken its gimbals twice. However, I still have a spare set on my spares bin (purchased here on the Forum, from a kind person of germany), so I figure that I can still get a few more years of service out of my Cougar :pilotfly:

 

I've since purchased the Virpil Warbird base to replace the TM joystick base should this happen again which is more than likely.

 

The only drawback of such bases, is that you loose the TM processor, and hence the use of software like Foxy or TARGET.

 

The only other thing I will need to do is purchase the RealSim TUSB converter for my throttle to separate it from the Cougar base.

 

Separating the Throttle from the Stick will also deny the use of the TM software .. on my case, I don't want to go that route.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Eduardo

[Sokol1_br]

I also recently found I believe, I'm not at home out of town right now, an SW-22 upgrade control board upgrade. Not sure what I bought that for.

 

This SW-22 chip was for make the old F22PRO - predecessor of Cougar, work in digital mode instead analog.

Since F22PRO was a gameport joystick, with or without this chip upgrade is not usable in modern computer and Windows after XP. A piece of museum. ;)

[Lange_666]

I've since purchased the Virpil Warbird base to replace the TM joystick base should this happen again which is more than likely.

The only drawback of such bases, is that you loose the TM processor, and hence the use of software like Foxy or TARGET.

The Virpil WarBRD base gives you the option to flash the VID/PID number of the TM Warthog stick base so TARGET still recognize it as a Warthog base. I use mine like this. I could not get used to the stiff Warthog spring (even Sajah's green one) after using a Cougar with a U2 modded gimbal for 16 years.

[msmith301]

:)

 

 

Separating the Throttle from the Stick will also deny the use of the TM software .. on my case, I don't want to go that route.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Eduardo

 

The main reason I was looking to do the TUSB converter we because I can't get anything to recognize the radar cursor on the throttle. Even the new TARGET software.

Guess I may have to load up the old Foxy software.

[Lange_666]

With it you can at least check if the radar cursor axis are not (electronically) broken, otherwise going TUSBA will be wasted money.

[Scooter2020]

Dear Eduardo.

 

I try to get your profile into my DCS. Everything looks well after I discover that I can't use chaff and flares. The gun is working but first I have (not necessary I believe) to delete the "T" and "Space"in the keyboard and then setup buttons in the HOTAS-colum I have to configure so that my Cougar reacts. I try to find my problem, and I know, it is me that's the problem.

I can't fix this.

What am I doing wrong?

 

Greets,

Dick ( and it is not a nickname, it's my real first name ;-)

Edited June 28, 2020 by Scooter#2020

[Lange_666]

Your keyboard layout in game has to be the same as Rudel_chw his keyboard layout if you want to use his profile.

Let's say you load his profile into the Cougar:

Let's assume that his keycombo for "Chaff" = "c" and yours is "Lctrl-c" then his profile will not work since the button for Chaff will generate "c" where your game expects "Lctrl-c"

In the HOTAS colom, you can only setup DX buttons, not keyboard key's.

Let's say you want to set up "Fire Gun" = "space" on the triggers first stage (Trigger first stage is TG1 which resembles DX1), you can either write a profile which generates "spaces" as long as you press TG1 or, you can go to Fire Gun in DCS and in the HOTAS colom you select DX1. If you then press TG1, the gun will fire even if you don't press "space" on the keyboard.

 

It has the same effect as a keyboard but you are limited to 32 DX buttons for your entire Cougar (stick + throttle). The advantage is that a DX button is independent of the keyboard and can be used simultaniously which a keyboard can't (it can only output one key at a time (or along with modifiers). So if you would have enough fingers, you can output 32 action on the same moment.