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Jammers not working


Beamscanner
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I catch players in tight formations on radar

 

One of them turns on ECM and jamming indications occur

 

The other, who is within a few feet of the other, doesn't disappear from radar...

 

Other fighters, on the same bearing but much further away(behind jamming fighter), remain on radar scope as well....:huh:

 

This must be a bug, right?

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Are you assuming that if one fighter turns on his jammer it jams the whole strike package he is with. That would require a dedicated jammer bird. I have seen two fighters in close proximity light up their ecm and each one generates a separate narrow strobe. So now I don't believe it is a bug.

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Are you assuming that if one fighter turns on his jammer it jams the whole strike package he is with. That would require a dedicated jammer bird. I have seen two fighters in close proximity light up their ecm and each one generates a separate narrow strobe. So now I don't believe it is a bug.

 

Are you assuming that Self Protection Jammers are powerful enough to hide a SU-27 at 40 miles but not also a fellow SU-27 who is further behind him on the same bearing? Who has a much smaller reflection.. the plane in the distance already had a low S/N ratio, and now the noise at that bearing has gone up even higher due to the jammer.

 

 

The theory of operation for 'stand off jammers' and 'self protect jammers' is exactly the same.. One doesn't have a different force of nature behind it.. one is simply more powerful/more directional than the other..

 

If two targets are in the same radar range bin, traveling at the same speed, at the same bearing, and one of them starts jamming. Well the S/N ratio in that range/doppler bin is going to go down and either cover both the planes or neither of them.

 

the jammer doesn't make individual planes invisible, it saturates the radar(at that bearing). Everything in that direction should be saturated. Some saturation should even come from other bearings due to jammer energy coming in the side lobes of the antenna. (though this wouldn't inject nearly as much noise)

 

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The further target was already harder to see.. If target one is able to cover himself with his SPJ, then certainly the weaker signal behind him will be covered too. Even when you get burn through on target one, if he leaves his jammer on you will not get to see target two until he gets way closer and his skin return over powers the noise of the jammer.

 

 

Dedicated Stand off jammers (prowlers/Growlers) are used when you want to cover the friend in front of you, who is going in to fight.. That is why they must be more powerful and more directional. But an SPJ, while much weaker, can certainly cover planes directly behind you, if its able to cover itself.... Assuming its not a 747 with a massive RCS. And the closer that SPJ gets to your radar, the stronger the jamming signal will be. While this wont help the person up close, it will certainly help cover the guys behind him.

 

If your wondering why burn through even happens, it's because antenna gain is more of a factor than transmit power(it takes 16x more power to double the detection range of a radar, but only 4x more gain to do the same). Most jammers have low gain, while most radar have very high gain. As the target gets closer to the radar, it becomes more and more difficult to compete with the gain of the radar.. If you had a jammer with even half the gain as the victim radar, then the radar would never get burn through.. (I say half because the jammer only needs to worry about one way path loss, while the radar needs to worry about two way path loss)


Edited by Beamscanner
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Current radar/jammer in dcs looks scripted - detect​ at "X" distance, burn trough at "x" distance. If jammer on and distance >= "X" show animation "y" etc...

I guess I m wrong but I dont know...

 

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you might get a better response if you presented this as a feature request instead, fc3 is understood as kind of a stopgap and a dead end

 

Kinda need to know if it is unintentional or not before I request it..

 

I gave them the 'benefit of the doubt' by asking if it was a bug..

 

 

Honestly, we don't need to simulate every ray of light.. Just dont let the radar detect targets on a jamming strobe when they are behind the jammer (or right next to it). Assuming their RCS isn't massive.

 

On another note, if two targets are within a few feet of each other with the same vector and velocity(same range and doppler bin), the radar will see the combined strength of their returns (combined RCS), and you would detect them at significantly greater ranges (burn through range would also increase, if only one of them was using a jammer)... However, they would appear as one target


Edited by Beamscanner
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DCS jammers do hide other aircrafts in close proximity or behind although the modeling might not be perfect. But it's a working tactic to hide your numbers by having only one plane jamming and the rest stayin silent. If other planes turn on their jammers you can see multiple jammer signals very close to each other on radar which might or might not be realistic. I haven't really tested on what parameters this stops working but I don't remember seeing any contacts behind a jammer unless it's clearly at different vertical angle from the jammer. There might be a bug that broke this as I haven't tested this with the latest version.

DCS Finland: Suomalainen DCS yhteisö -- Finnish DCS community

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