109 Damage bug??

[DefaultFace]

Of course it's weird. Did I say it wasn't? That was never my point. My point was that your claim that the 109 is unfairly advantaged by the DM in a way that the P-51 isn't is not true. If any aircraft is disadvantaged at all it would be the Spitfire, which seems to have the most believable Damage Model so far. Even then It's weaponry has proven fairly effective against the 'Immortal' German aircraft. Hopefully the new DM will be here soon, but I'm afraid it's another case of '2 weeks' as is everything in DCS. I'll believe it when I see it.

 

On to something that may be slightly offtopic here... You mentioned only tracers showing hits on enemy aircraft. I noticed this as well with both the .50 and MG 131. I've shot down aircraft without ever seeing a hit on them before. Just going off of guncam footage there seems to be a fairly noticeable 'sparkle' or at least smoke/debris when an aircraft is hit. In older DCS videos this effect seems to have been more visible. Does anyone know if it was changed/removed or if there is a bug report open on this?

[Kurfürst]

Well, still the airplane with one wing and burning flies faster in a straight line than a prefectly good aircraft. Don't you find that a bit wierd? Do you want to tell me that airplanes would fly better if they didn't have wings?

 

It seems reasonable. Removing one wing removes a lot of unneccesary drag, while burning off surplus fuel does wonders to flying weight and thus, induced drag. Therefore it should fly faster, since thrust remains the same.

[otto]

I give up LOL think what are you mean because you are absolute convinced about what are you talking there is no Point to make any discussion with you.

 

 

Based on this last relevant frame you hit either the p51's wing ,tail or even cockpit.The aim was wabbly it's impossible to break a wing like that.Probably less than 8 hits were scored.

[No.401_Wolverine]

Not here to debate how accurate the damage models are compared to each other, but something IS up with the AI 109 one for sure. I know people have mentioned it, but I'm mentioning it too to put another bit of weight behind getting it fixed.

 

Spitfire and Mustang vs two AI 109s at Good and Average level of AI ability.

 

Both 109s were hit and leaking white and black smoke. Close inspection of the aircraft showed damage to about 75% of the surfaces of both aircraft.

 

Both 109s kept flying and fighting with no noticeable change in performance for another 15 minutes after leaking white and black smoke. At this point, one of them was hit AGAIN and started to leak MORE black and white smoke.

 

And yet, the fight continues for another 15 minutes, at which point, both 109s leave the encounter and RTB. At this point, one of the 109s begins to show SEVERE performance penalties.

 

Spitfire has long run out of fuel at this point. The Mustang follows and prevents the 109s from landing (he's out of ammo now) by buzzing them on their final approaches. After at least two approaches, both 109s seize engines and crash.

 

We're talking about at least 40 minutes from severe coolant and oil issues, 30 of which were at combat power, until full seizure of engine.

 

Again, I know this has been reported, but it seems it's been reported quite a while ago. Want to keep this on the radar. If this is an issue for other AI aircraft as well, then hopefully it gets fixed there too.

 

Incidentally, we have NO problems with 190s. Spitfire guns carve them up like Sunday roast.

 

I'll get a video of it next time to post if needed.

Edited February 28, 2017 by No.401_Wolverine

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

same for all ai aircraft, nothing 109 specific.

[No.401_Wolverine]

same for all ai aircraft, nothing 109 specific.

 

Note from my post:

 

Not here to debate how accurate the damage models are compared to each other

If this is an issue for other AI aircraft as well, then hopefully it gets fixed there too.

I post in the 109 bug section because I observed this on the AI 109. If I observe it on other aircraft, I will post it there. Also note from my post:

 

Incidentally, we have NO problems with 190s

So while there may be issues with the 190 as well, they may be different and are not as readily apparent to me. If I come across any glaring issues for the AI 190, I'll report them. Right now, the only glaring issue I can speak to is the 109.

 

Everyone suspects everyone's motives for reporting things. This is crazy behavior. If I shoot at AI 109s, I'll report issues that I find when I shoot at AI 109s. I can't speak to shooting at Mustangs or Spitfires because I don't do that. If you do, then report them there. Why feel the need to lurk on the 109 bug section and make remarks about bugs for other aircraft? This is the 109 bug section. If you have a remark to make about a 109 bug, then do so. I suspect you shoot at Mustangs and Spitfires and all the rest of them a lot and have the experiences with those AI issues. So go post in the Mustang or Spitfire or whatever relevant aircraft bugs section.

Edited February 28, 2017 by No.401_Wolverine

[cichlidfan]

AI damage models and flight models do not coincide. This has always been the case with all AI aircraft.

[Art-J]

Wolverine, we don't suspect any evil motives about You. It's just people have kind of given up / got tired, because abysmal DM and FM modelling of AI planes has been an infamous "trademark" of all DCS warbirds (including Korean ones) for years, since 2012 when Mustang showed up as the first one. These issues have been discussed ad nauseam, so Your post doesn't add any noticeable weight to something, which is already battleship-heavy ;).

 

For now we can only take the sim as it is and wait for the total DM overhaul being worked on (at last!). That one will fix at least half of the issue. The remaining half - the AI routines when combat-damaged, remains a mistery.

[crudboy12]

I can take down Bf-109s with a decent burst of 50 cal, but you have to hit near the cockpit or engine. When I was flying the 109 in multiplayer, I was chased by a spit and two mustangs for several minutes, taking hit after hit, until my engine quit because all the fluids leaks out. I'm not sure if it is broken, but it sure is tough.

[Buzzles]

Everyone suspects everyone's motives for reporting things. This is crazy behavior. If I shoot at AI 109s, I'll report issues that I find when I shoot at AI 109s. I can't speak to shooting at Mustangs or Spitfires because I don't do that. If you do, then report them there. Why feel the need to lurk on the 109 bug section and make remarks about bugs for other aircraft? This is the 109 bug section. If you have a remark to make about a 109 bug, then do so. I suspect you shoot at Mustangs and Spitfires and all the rest of them a lot and have the experiences with those AI issues. So go post in the Mustang or Spitfire or whatever relevant aircraft bugs section.

 

Wow :lol:

 

As others have mentioned, it is a generic issue with DCS AI aircraft. It's nothing to do specifically with the 109.

 

As an aside, there is a new damage model coming, I just hope it gets applied to the AI too.

[9.JG27 DavidRed]

Note from my post:

 

I post in the 109 bug section because I observed this on the AI 109. If I observe it on other aircraft, I will post it there. Also note from my post:

 

So while there may be issues with the 190 as well, they may be different and are not as readily apparent to me. If I come across any glaring issues for the AI 190, I'll report them. Right now, the only glaring issue I can speak to is the 109.

 

Everyone suspects everyone's motives for reporting things. This is crazy behavior. If I shoot at AI 109s, I'll report issues that I find when I shoot at AI 109s. I can't speak to shooting at Mustangs or Spitfires because I don't do that. If you do, then report them there. Why feel the need to lurk on the 109 bug section and make remarks about bugs for other aircraft? This is the 109 bug section. If you have a remark to make about a 109 bug, then do so. I suspect you shoot at Mustangs and Spitfires and all the rest of them a lot and have the experiences with those AI issues. So go post in the Mustang or Spitfire or whatever relevant aircraft bugs section.

 

sorry, but this is not a bug for the 109 bug section, but a bug for the AI bug section which doesnt even exist...i told you more or less as an friendly advice, that this affects all AI aircraft, thats all...suggesting that im lurking on the 109 bug forums to remark other bugs which dont belong to it, and calling my advice crazy, is a not so friendly insult.

[No.401_Wolverine]

I felt my post made it clear that I was aware of there being issues for other AI aircraft and that I was making an anecdotal report of an incident with the 109 specifically. I searched for a very long time to find an AI Bugs section, but didn't find it, so I put it here.

 

However, I should know better than to make assumptions about the intentions or motives of other people's remarks. So, for that I apologize to you DavidRed. I'm sorry.

 

I was hoping that DCS and Normandy and the WWII aircraft here would be a better place to move to from other Sims. Those of us who build co-op missions are desperate for a good sim with AI that can be relied upon.

 

There will be a lot more people coming to DCS over the coming months I think, many of whom won't know which topics are 'tired' or have been beaten to death. It's important that they be able to make their wishes known I think so that developers get a sense of what things really are important to people and deserve proper fixes.

 

So, no, I don't believe that adding new posts on old topics is pointless if it's new people joining in. 5% of your customers screaming and crying isn't as compelling as 50% of your customers asking for change nicely.

 

Now, where's that AI Bug section? EDIT: I spent some more time digging and finally found the spot, so I'm sorry all of this ended up in here. I'll post about AI bugs and issues here from now on.: ED Forums » English » Digital Combat Simulator » DCS World 1.5 & 2.0 Open Alpha » 2.0 Open Alpha Bugs and Problems » AI

Edited March 1, 2017 by No.401_Wolverine