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Vive 2.0 to be Announced Soon


SkateZilla
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Details Coming at CES2017

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Hrmm,. Gotta check sources..

 

The Device itself wont be at CES, But I'm certain it's gonna get a mention.

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they really need to give it a year or two then bring out the next iteration. Or make one a modular system that can be upgraded as new screens and optics come out....

 

Absolutely, an upgradable version would be best.

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I think some people have gotten so used to the update cycles of cell phones that they mistakenly think to equate it with this kind of new technology. It's nowhere near the same boat.

 

I wouldn't be surprised at all if HTC says absolutely nothing about any new advancements other than stuff that has previously been talked about at dev conferences and such. It's more likely that they are just having a presence to continue to show off their current product as it is still so new.

 

The things that need upgrading are no simple obstacles to overcome, at least to justify a completely new HMD. There will never be a modular system any more than you could just upgrade the cpu/gpu of a console. Everything needs to be precisely integrated in order for it to work properly.

 

Fact is, we are all extremely early adopters, even at the CV1 level. Just the fact that we are at where we are now is a monumental achievement that took years to accomplish. We just have to be patient and give them the time they need to improve and do it right. I wouldn't hold it against them for keeping information close to the chest in this emerging competitive market either.

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I'd expect if anything, minor changes to shell/construction, and perhaps a small price drop. It's cutting edge stuff, and computing power barely exists to run the current generation, let alone anything higher rez in a mass-market affordable way.

 

I mean GPU-supported techniques like foveated rendering might help, but existing applications don't even use the vr-specific tech in this generation of graphics cards, so that's certainly a way off.

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i think both Oculus CV and Vive were kind of rushed to the market.

 

now, everyone wants them to be cheaper, which means they need to get better screen contracts or ditch the HDMI and MiPI Standards.

 

Ditching MIPI:

Would mean no longer being able to use Cell Phone Screens, would require a manufacturer to custom build a small high PPI screen.

 

Would mean removing the MIPI to HDMI Chips and Board, which are significantly priced even in large lots for the Resolution and refresh Rate used in the HMDs.

A MiPI to HDMI Board Capable of 2160x1400x90Hz runs about $150 a pop, Plus the Cost of the Screen and Custom Screen Controller Board.

 

Removing MiPI From the Equation would remove the Daughter board, MiPI Chip, etc, and the Heat it puts out, as well as the power requirements.

 

 

 

Ditching HDMI:

Everyone knows all too Well, Anything w/ HDMI Standard has to pay a fee and slap that logo on their stuff.

 

Now, Ditching HDMI for Display Port would:

-Remove Said HDMI Fees

-Remove the HDMI Problems both Rift and Vive are having w/ Older Ports (not to mention the HDMI Signal Overcranking they have to do to get them to work on 1.3b/1.4)

-Enable MiniDP or DP w/ a MiniDP Adapter, which EVERY GPU has since like 2005.

-HDMI -> Display PORT adapters work alot better than DP->HDMI Adapters.

-HDMI is Pointless on a HMD, it's not a Home Theatre, You dont need HDCP nor 7.1 Pass Through, You need Video, that's It, Send the Video via DP, which still support HDCP, and Keep the Audio on USB.

 

*(trust me, my GPU's dont have any HDMI Ports, and the adapter dance I went through to get to a point where I could use the rift on my Main GPUs cost me about $140 in buying multiple recommended adapters one after another until I found a setup that worked).


Edited by SkateZilla

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Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs, CH Fighterstick+Pro Throttle+Pro Pedals

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Ditching MIPI:

Would mean no longer being able to use Cell Phone Screens, would require a manufacturer to custom build a small high PPI screen.

 

Would mean removing the MIPI to HDMI Chips and Board, which are significantly priced even in large lots for the Resolution and refresh Rate used in the HMDs.

A MiPI to HDMI Board Capable of 2160x1400x90Hz runs about $150 a pop, Plus the Cost of the Screen and Custom Screen Controller Board.

 

Removing MiPI From the Equation would remove the Daughter board, MiPI Chip, etc, and the Heat it puts out, as well as the power requirements.

Yes, they'd need to custom-manufacture displays AND the controller boards, which I'm sure would not be a massive expense that would increase the price of the units. How on earth would adding the R&D make things cheaper? At least using standard parts they can just sit and wait around until the rest of the market makes the displays cheaper and drop prices accordingly. Or are you one of those people who thing summing the literal cost of parts together gives you the "real" cost of a device?

 

Ditching HDMI:

Everyone knows all too Well, Anything w/ HDMI Standard has to pay a fee and slap that logo on their stuff.

 

Now, Ditching HDMI for Display Port would:

-Remove Said HDMI Fees

Which are apparently < $0.15 /unit to throw away one of the most common video connectors in the world. Great saving!

 

-Remove the HDMI Problems both Rift and Vive are having w/ Older Ports (not to mention the HDMI Signal Overcranking they have to do to get them to work on 1.3b/1.4)

Source? As far as I'm aware, the problems cards were having were mostly driver-fixed. And as for older cards, I thought almost universally the minimum recommended setup is GTX970/equivalent?

 

Also, I have no idea about the Oculus but the vive supports both DP AND HMDI. It's convenient because it's less disruptive on anything else you might be plugging into. And there seems to be more issues reported with displayport side of things anyway (I had a driver issue at the start regarding both hdmi/DP in use, but they fixed that in an update).

 

-Enable MiniDP or DP w/ a MiniDP Adapter, which EVERY GPU has since like 2005.

The displayport standard wasn't even finalised until 2006, and the first devices only appeared in 2008, before the first GPU's. It was certainly a few years before it became common. So 2005 is a complete fabrication.

 

*(trust me, my GPU's dont have any HDMI Ports, and the adapter dance I went through to get to a point where I could use the rift on my Main GPUs cost me about $140 in buying multiple recommended adapters one after another until I found a setup that worked).

 

That's... insane - that's like 1/3 the price of actually buying a modern card. Why on earth was it that expensive for you rather than just a £10 cable?

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Seems those new improved panels are already in manufacturers hands with even better coming later in the year.

 

http://www.roadtovr.com/display-conglomerate-jdi-developing-ultra-high-resolution-panels-vr-headsets/

 

Which was five weeks ago - way too short a timescale to be integrated into any current product development.

 

It also doesn't mention costs - which for a cutting edge display type could easily be much more (I assume that if the point of the display was low cost, then they would have advertised that fact in the press release).

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Adopters are expensive as you need active adapters, not passive.

 

for the Rift, You Need to use a Passive Adapter, Active Adapters have Signal Converting Issues.

 

Myself and other Oculus Devs have a huge thread on their forums regarding adapters.

 

 

 

Yes, they'd need to custom-manufacture displays AND the controller boards, which I'm sure would not be a massive expense that would increase the price of the units. How on earth would adding the R&D make things cheaper? At least using standard parts they can just sit and wait around until the rest of the market makes the displays cheaper and drop prices accordingly. Or are you one of those people who thing summing the literal cost of parts together gives you the "real" cost of a device?

 

There are Small 6 Inch 4K Screens that have been developed for other uses, using HDMI / DP Standards.

 

There's no point Limiting themselves to Cell Phone/MiPI Standard. By Doing so, they allow the Cell Phone Screen MFRs to control the market, and they still have to cram an extra daughter board and chip into the unit to convert the HDMI Input to a MIPI input.

 

Which are apparently < $0.15 /unit to throw away one of the most common video connectors in the world. Great saving!

 

Fees are Fees..... .15 a Unit adds up in total development cost.

 

Source? As far as I'm aware, the problems cards were having were mostly driver-fixed. And as for older cards, I thought almost universally the minimum recommended setup is GTX970/equivalent?

 

There are several Issues w/ Oculus HMD either not working on HDMI Ports that meet requirements or burning them out due to the signal overcranking being used to send the video signal, Again, there's a mess of long threads on oculus forums about these issues.

 

The displayport standard wasn't even finalised until 2006, and the first devices only appeared in 2008, before the first GPU's. It was certainly a few years before it became common. So 2005 is a complete fabrication.

 

Correct, and appeared on 2007 GPUs, for Oculus/Vive, They'd Likely need a 1.2 Port, which didnt appear til 2010 GPU's ( AMD HD7000+ and nVidia 400 ), Both of which are "below oculus recommended specs", anyway.

 

 

That's... insane - that's like 1/3 the price of actually buying a modern card. Why on earth was it that expensive for you rather than just a £10 cable?

 

Again, myself and oculus Devs were working out which adapters work with specific cards, as there are several AMD GPU's that only had DisplayPorts on them, So populating a definatative list of which adapters worked and which ones didnt helped a large group of users w/ AMD Fury/FuryX/MSi Lightning/Eyfinity6 and Studio Cards.

 

the cost was not a total loss, as the ones that didnt work w/ rift still worked w/ normal HDTVs, so I was able to Connect HDTVs to my other Rigs for Movie watching etc.

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The rush to participate in VR will soon be leaving early adopters with a proverbial dinosaur.

 

Next gen is coming and ofcourse we will have to have it.

 

Im glad I waited and have no problem waiting until it gets much better.

 

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The rush to participate in VR will soon be leaving early adopters with a proverbial dinosaur.

 

Next gen is coming and ofcourse we will have to have it.

 

Im glad I waited and have no problem waiting until it gets much better.

 

 

Why not wait for Gen 3? Which will likely have Holograms?

 

The point I'm making is that early adopters get in and get to enjoy the benefit of VR in DCS. I don't really care for anything else - although the car racing games Derek recommended are pretty awesome in VR.

 

I'll say it again. Since the beginning of personal computer era, the rig I wanted was *always* more than $3,000. This was true with Tandy, Compaq 386, Austin, Dell, Gateway, DFI, home brew etc. Home computer prices have plummeted, but gamer's rig hasn't come down.

 

Every tech you buy is a dinosaur in two years, no?

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for the Rift, You Need to use a Passive Adapter, Active Adapters have Signal Converting Issues.

 

Myself and other Oculus Devs have a huge thread on their forums regarding adapters.

 

There are several Issues w/ Oculus HMD either not working on HDMI Ports that meet requirements or burning them out due to the signal overcranking being used to send the video signal, Again, there's a mess of long threads on oculus forums about these issues.

 

Again, myself and oculus Devs were working out which adapters work with specific cards, as there are several AMD GPU's that only had DisplayPorts on them, So populating a definatative list of which adapters worked and which ones didnt helped a large group of users w/ AMD Fury/FuryX/MSi Lightning/Eyfinity6 and Studio Cards.

 

the cost was not a total loss, as the ones that didnt work w/ rift still worked w/ normal HDTVs, so I was able to Connect HDTVs to my other Rigs for Movie watching etc.

 

Right, but this is self-inflicted, you presented it as though you HAD to spend $150 on adapters to actually get your HMD working, and that it was HDMI's fault.

 

And I'm still not sure what this has to do with the Vive anyway, and why you'd expect a massive redesign eight months after the original launched.

 

Fees are Fees..... .15 a Unit adds up in total development cost.

Except you were implying that HDMI fees had something to do with making the units costly.

 

There are Small 6 Inch 4K Screens that have been developed for other uses, using HDMI / DP Standards.

 

There's no point Limiting themselves to Cell Phone/MiPI Standard. By Doing so, they allow the Cell Phone Screen MFRs to control the market, and they still have to cram an extra daughter board and chip into the unit to convert the HDMI Input to a MIPI input.

And I'm sure that as time goes on and the options mature the VR manufacturers might pick them up, if it makes economic and engineering sense - not because they have been "Limiting themselves". Tiny proof-of-concept manufacturing runs don't prove anything about long-term feasibility/yields/lifetime, and I can guarantee that lots of extremely smart people (a) spent a lotlonger than anybody outside the VR manufacturers thinking about the advantages/disadvantages of every alternative, and (b) are continually evaluating new options that come up.

 

But certainly don't expect fancy brand-new low-volume VR-only screens to drop the price (which is why you were saying they should). They are expensive because they are a niche market with massive amounts of up-front R&D, as well as the hardware (which includes the lighthouses for the vive).

 

 

Why not wait for Gen 3? Which will likely have Holograms?

 

Right, I don't think anybody spending up to £1000 to get the Rift/Vive (assuming touch controllers makes them mostly parity, and including the cost of a graphics card capable of doing it justice) is under the impression that they aren't early-adopters of a first-gen technology. But it's still amazing.


Edited by NickD
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The rush to participate in VR will soon be leaving early adopters with a proverbial dinosaur.

 

Next gen is coming and ofcourse we will have to have it.

 

Im glad I waited and have no problem waiting until it gets much better.

 

Waiting is definitely not a bad idea, but the analogy has always made me laugh. Even if they waited for the fourth version of VR the fifth version would be better. If people followed this advice they would never buy a VR headset, while others would have been enjoying VR for many years. Even the early prototypes provided many hours off entertainment.

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it's the same argument since time immemorial. Beta players were $2,000 and when it hit $500 it became more common place. Automatic transmission, the same. Microwave ovens, the same. Plasma/LED the same. OLEDs will be the same.

 

So I totally get the "wait for mass production" sweet spot, but VR is such a new territory for sim'ers that it was worth the early adopter's penalty.

 

I got in when it was DK1 for $300 and DK2. And have enjoyed it GREATLY since then. For DK2, I sold it for $300 in Ebay so no loss there.

hsb

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Yep. Vive announce 4k vr. Cv 2 shall follow soon. Glad i waited!:pilotfly:

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it's the same argument since time immemorial. Beta players were $2,000 and when it hit $500 it became more common place. Automatic transmission, the same. Microwave ovens, the same. Plasma/LED the same. OLEDs will be the same.

 

So I totally get the "wait for mass production" sweet spot, but VR is such a new territory for sim'ers that it was worth the early adopter's penalty.

 

I got in when it was DK1 for $300 and DK2. And have enjoyed it GREATLY since then. For DK2, I sold it for $300 in Ebay so no loss there.

 

Very much agree; compared to the hit many early adoptions of tech involve, I think the CV1 was quite reasonable. It was the same price as my monitor when I got it, certainly don't regret getting either one. I've been saving up for CV2 since the week I got my CV1, because if you could get the kind of definition and sharpness we enjoy on monitors these days, there would be no need to go out in the real world ever again.

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