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Future of the DCS P-51D


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I have finally purchased the P-51D since the Normandy map is approaching release. Now that the Spitfire is out, what does the future look like for the P-51? Are there upgrades, improvements, and/or new features in the works? I have seen a few posts on the forum mentioning a new model but nothing official.

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Yes, see Racoon's posts:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170568

 

Tl;dr: ED are "planning" to make it into a mid-late war ETO model (probably D20, 25 or 30), rather than the late war PTO model we have now.

 

 

 

I read that post. I'm of the "Lets wait and see" school of thought. As it stands, I know lots of people who are pretty disenchanted with the P51. Me being one of them.

I sincerely hope that we get something that's competitive with the other WWII planes in DCS. I love the P51 but I won't take the ED, P51 out and fight with it. Not air to air anyway.

If DCS charges for it (I'm thinking they're aren't inclined to do that after reading the other thread). But if they did, I'd pass. I purchased it once already and it was not up to standard. I have accepted that about it. But would not pay twice for something that I feel I should have gotten the first time around.

I love ED and appreciate what they've done for fight simming. But the P51 is where we seem to have a difference of opinion.

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Yes, see Racoon's posts:

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=170568

 

Tl;dr: ED are "planning" to make it into a mid-late war ETO model (probably D20, 25 or 30), rather than the late war PTO model we have now.

 

Hopefully we can get some specific details soon. I am wondering if we will then have two versions of the P-51 or if the new version will replace the current one.

 

Since this Mustang was released in 2012, I would like to see a new 3D model that is as detailed and in depth as what we see with some of the recent releases.

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I would really like to see the P-51D Module updated to a 1944 P-51D-20 or D25 using high octance fuel and cleared for 72 inches of manifold in DCS.

 

That would give a good matchup to both the D9 and K4.

 

But after looking into that thread, what really astonishes me, is how little the online sim world has changed. Just started again some online flight simming after about 10 years of to get my PPL and even get into oldtimer and warbird flying. And what do i see once i get into sim community back? Some well known guys from a decade to two decades back, which still promote the same twisted fews on plane performance.

 

Heck when i was young, i was one of those too. But luckily flying the real deal, sitting in almost any cockpit of those famous WW2 warbird, talking and knowing a WW2 LW veteran really helped to relativize all those discussions about plane performance.

 

Funny to see Kurfürst still on his crusade to promote and present an obsolete plane as the pinnacle of WW2 prop fighter development.

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what, exactly, is all the fuss about the DCS P-51 about? Isn't the one in game supposed to be modeled off the one owned by TFC? Didn't they use flight data from TFC's 'Stang to develop the flight model?

 

I think the issue is not the flight model per se but rather the competitiveness of the P-51. I've never flown a P-51 in real life so I can't really tell you if the flight model is accurate, but I can say I find the DCS P-51 an absolute joy to fly, one of my favourites.

 

The general request is that the P-51 should be updated to reflect what was used in the European theatre in late 44 (since that's the period we seem to be modelling). That is 150 octane fuel and 72" (or perhaps even 75") manifold pressure. This would give the P-51 a noticeable speed boost and would probably move it to being faster than the 109 at most altitudes. I agree with this proposal as it is both historically plausible, and it should give an interesting balance. The 109 climbs and accelerates better (you'd expect that), and also turns better at slow speed. But the P-51 is faster (especially up high), and turns better at high speed.

 

That said IMO the P-51 is underestimated. It's a great BnZ plane, and with an energy advantage it can be very effective :)


Edited by Tomsk
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Oh goodness...I didn't want this thread to become another debate. I just wanted to see if ED or anyone else would offer some more information on future development for the P-51.

 

:)

 

I don't think anyone knows much TBH. ED have said it'll get an update to reflect European theatre use. I imagine that'll be a free update.

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Plus the new Damage Model :)

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A bit OT, sorry, but how about a Bf-109F4 or G8, and an FW-190A-5? The K4 has got to be the ugliest of the 109s, and the Dora was really only used to defend the 262s...

 

(half roll, unload, accellerate out of the fight ;^)

 

C'mon, they are all fun to fly!

 

Vulture

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From the newsletter...

 

"New aircraft damage model systems. This new system will be based on a much more precise system of positional agregats within an aircraft structure such that it will give players a new level of realistic air combat damage modeling- especially with machineguns. Because this system will dramatically change simulation balance, the system will be released for all World War II planes simultaneously."

 

I wonder if this will give us a new and updated P-51D model.

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A lot of people either forget, or don't know about never wanting to fly (actually, I meant fight) with fuel in the center tank of the 51. It throws the CG back and it departs a lot more easily than if you didn't have that weight there. Having said that, the P 51 we have has all that IFF/radio equipment AND the center fuel tank there. It really throws the CG off and it flies like a pig. I won't go into the MP and fuel, but what I mentioned is huge and a reason the 51 here doesn't perform as well as it should.

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A lot of people either forget, or don't know about never wanting to fly (actually, I meant fight) with fuel in the center tank of the 51. It throws the CG back and it departs a lot more easily than if you didn't have that weight there. Having said that, the P 51 we have has all that IFF/radio equipment AND the center fuel tank there. It really throws the CG off and it flies like a pig. I won't go into the MP and fuel, but what I mentioned is huge and a reason the 51 here doesn't perform as well as it should.

 

P51 perform very well in DCS, my favourite of all Prop planes.

DCS is only another game but with better cockpits.

Many things are NOT simulated like they let us think after reading all these hundreds of pages manuals ;-) or only in a simple way, like overheating or damage model, or different bullet rounds.

DCS becomes more and more a civil flightsim with the ability of shot something around ;-)

i dont care much anymore because it seems to me they overcoded the old LockOn engine and it get worse with every new model. Now with the SPit the Propellerscircle disappears often in P51, BF109 or 190 and it sucks.

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I dont like how they are making another mustang.

Seems like the whine is real and people will keep whining until they get the mustang which is better then a bf109 which is quite sad. They are wasting time with it.

 

It will not be 'better' than the 109, don't worry you will still have a UFO advantage over the allied aircraft.

 

It will be an update from pacific theatre mustang to a western front theatre....& unfortunately it won't make a huge difference to the status quo.

 

That will hopefully come with an improved damage model.

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I don't think the 109 has an UFO advantage...unless you are talking about the AI of course. It does.

 

If we get proper MP limits and a proper DM I'm sure the Mustang will perform very, very well against even the 109 K. If people expect it to be a great dogfighter - which it wasn't - then they will always be disappointed.

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It will not be 'better' than the 109, don't worry you will still have a UFO advantage over the allied aircraft.

 

It will be an update from pacific theatre mustang to a western front theatre....& unfortunately it won't make a huge difference to the status quo.

 

That will hopefully come with an improved damage model.

 

At least it will be more indicative of the relative performance between the Mustang and the 109. And enable p51 players more option when in combat.

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Lot of good points in here. Nobody is asking for parity just for game play's sake. We could all be flying War Thunder for that. I think most just want more options to tweak the online match ups. In the absence of mutliple a/c variants I think minor tweaks could be an effective compromise. If a real world crew chief could pull the center tank, IFF and Detrola, why can't that be an option (however negligible an advantage that would be)?

 

I for one would simply welcome period appropriate G-Suit. While waiting for the new and improved DM, that right there would go a long ways to giving the P-51 a greater edge during portions of the engagement.

 

(also at least a period appropriate pilot!)

 

SLACK

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Yes, the high octane fuel allowing 75" MP should help considerably. The Bf 109K will still be a monster, but the gap will be narrowed. I'm certainly not asking for parity for parity's sake, but the ability to setup historically likely matchups where pilot skill can then "go to work".

 

The Bf 109K didn't even appear until October 1944, by which point some 8th AF fighters were using high octane AN-F-33 fuel that allowed 75" MP. It can be an option in the Mission Editor which fuels are available, but both are entirely historical.

 

The Bf 109K pilot will still have an advantage in a straight 1-v-1 dogfight, and it'll require greater skill by the Mustang pilot to win.

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Not only skill but a good bit of patience when you both know your aircraft.

 

Apeoftheyear is a very good 109 sim pilot, he explains and shows you in

video flying the spit / P-51 would work here also, what you should be doing against the 109.

 

Very good training on his YouTube Channel.


Edited by David OC

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Spitfire Mk1 and Mustang Mk IV are completely different aircraft with completely different approaches.

 

You cannot even compare them they are that different.

 

Not to mention 109E3 vs K4. Good DM vs Bad.

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Spitfire Mk1 and Mustang Mk IV are completely different aircraft with completely different approaches.

 

You cannot even compare them they are that different.

 

Not to mention 109E3 vs K4. Good DM vs Bad.

 

Why is it a completely different approach?

A good 109 pilot is going to always use the aircraft advantage by using the boom and zoom tactics most of the time.

 

All you can do is defend against this and use your aircraft to it's advantage and hope he makes a mistake and loses energy, I believe there is a lot you can learn in the video that's still relative here.

 

Are you saying you can climb with the 109 in the P51? or Spitfire we have now?

 

We know about the DM and this will change.


Edited by David OC

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I am saying that relative performance between the Spit mk1 and 109e3 is very close, while 109k and 51 are somewhat different.. Spit has a small advantage in turn and is a bit faster on average, while 109 is a better diver. But otherwise they are very close.

 

109K is a much better climber than Mustang, turns better, has better low speed manoeuvrability. Mustang has better high speed manoeuvrability and dives better.

Sure a pure and well executed b&z approach or a sneak attack is going to be effective, but that doesn't mean your maneuvering will be the same when it is not going as planned.

 

One is an interceptor, the other is ASF. One has elliptical wing and the other has laminar flow wing. What works for a spit against a 109 won't work for mustang.

 

So a good 109 pilot will drag the fight to a low speed where its manoeuvrability and acceleration will make short work of the Mustang. If he did that against the Spitfire he would be doomed.


Edited by Solty

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