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Some help with landing??


inspgadget
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I would start by searching YouTube for "A-10C Landing Tutorial" and watch a few to get the general gist. Here's a decent one:

 

After that, practice a bit, and then post a track of you landing and/or crashing to get some advice from forum members here tailored to your specific needs.

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You should have the airport as a waypoint, either by misión design, or accesing it via nav system... anyway lets go to the basics.

 

As Xavven said, do the training missions, you'll learn a lot. Also, i want to stress that the A10C is a complex A/C. You MUST read the manual in order to be proficient with it

 

Also, I'll suggest that you don't go for a straight in approach, try flying a standard VFR pattern, overfly the runway, and start the circuit. Keep the pattern work until you feel confident with your landing technique.

If you find you are all over the place on the final approach (unstable), just apply power, go arround and reset. There is no shame in going arround and trying again.

 

A trk/vid of your landings will be great so we can help you polishing your flying skills.

 

Just dont give up, with a bit of practice landings will be second nature for you, trust me. We all have been there...


Edited by harm_
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Quoted for truth-- there is only shame in breaking your landing gear or destroying your A-10 because you didn't abort and go around :D

 

+1 Always be prepared to abort whilst you are still in control fly around again and set up and do it again. watch others and practise (a lot). :thumbup:

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Hey nspgadget, landing can be a tough task in any aircraft. I'll try to give you a good write up to the best of my knowledge here.

 

It's important to keep this phrase in mind - You can't make a good landing out of a bad approach. Your first key to walking away form your landing grinning ear to ear is to set up a good approach. You mentioned that you often find trouble finding the airport and the runway; thankfully the A-10 has plenty of systems at your disposal to get you back to the runway.

 

The first and by far most common method to find your way back home is to use the A-10s TAD. The TAD does of course show airports. If you are too far from the airport to see it on the TAD in the default mode, I recommend using either EXP mode 1 or 2 by setting the TAD as SOI and China hat forward. This will detach the TAD view relative to the aircraft's position and you can then search the area surrounding your jet. Put your cursor directly over the airport, and then zoom out until you can see your aircraft. Then you'll have some sort of way to reckon yourself back to the airport with some relative accuracy.

 

The second, and most accurate method, is to use TACAN. TACAN is rather simple and straightforward, and will take you to directly to the airport's beacon. It should be noted that not all airports have TACAN equiptment. For the ones that do however, you must first know the TACAN code of the airport you're looking to navigate to. These codes will be in a format comprised of 2, with an X or Y following the digits (example, 44X or 36Y). You can find these codes using existing user made pages, such as this one. Alternatively, you can use the "Divert" page of the CDU by pressing "FUNC" and then "2" on the UFC Scratchpad.

All you have to do is punch in the airport's TACAN code, set the TACAN to A/A TR, and select "TCN" on the center front dash below the HSI, and your HSI will steer you the selected airport.

 

The third way, while a bit primitive, does work well. Most missions will allow you to see the position of your aircraft on the map by pressing F-10 in flight, and you can then use the ruler tool to determine the heading and distance to the airport relative to your location. Of course, if you can't see your aircraft on the map, which may be the case depending on the mission, then this option is ultimately unavailable.

 

The Traffic Pattern

Airfield_traffic_pattern.svg

 

So all of those are ways to get to the airport - but what about actually setting up an approach for the runway? If the visibility is good and you can make a visual approach, then joining the traffic pattern is one of the easiest ways to land visually. Every airport has a traffic pattern, and all aircraft of all sizes fly some form of the traffic pattern. The basic traffic pattern has four "legs", or parts. The first is known as Upwind leg. This is the leg where you are traveling in the direction of and parallel to the active landing runway. Often times this leg is actually your takeoff, if you take off intending to stay within the pattern. Next is the leg where you will turn 90 degrees perpendicular to the runway, known as crosswind leg. In this leg, you will simply travel 90 degrees to the runway for as long as you feel that you need to. Keep in mind that as this leg extends, so does your base leg. If you're looking to spend longer in the base leg, spend longer in the crosswind leg. Then comes downwind leg, where you are traveling parallel to but in the opposite direction of the active landing runway. You can fly this leg for as long as you need to - but it is within this leg that you will start your descent back to the runway. Most instructors teach the basic rule of "abeam the numbers," that you start your descent once you are 90 degrees to the numbers on the end of the active landing runway. When you are "abeam the numbers," drop your flaps to "MVR," reduce to a bit above approach speed, and begin a gradual descent. It's critical to know that as you extend this downwind leg, you extend the final approach. So if you really want to practice a good landing, especially in windy conditions, think about extending your downwind leg to give yourself more time flying the final approach. Continue your descent, and when you think you've gotten as far from the runway as you need for a good final approach, turn 90 degrees into your next leg, known as "base leg." It is like crosswind leg, just flying in the opposite direction. Continue descending throughout base leg. Now comes the hardest part of the traffic pattern, judging when to turn to final approach. You'd think that after flying many traffic patterns both IRL and in sims that I'd have this skill down packed. You think incorrectly. :lol: Jokes aside, When you have gotten near being in line with the runway for final approach, turn 90 degrees and align your heading with the runway. Be sure to make the turn BEFORE you are aligned with the runway, or you will overshoot it and have to come left during the final approach. Once you have done this, you are then on final approach and set to land. Your goal is to have descended enough during your base and downwind legs to be on glide slope; descend too much and you'll be below it, descend too little and you'll be above it. Now reduce to landing speed, drop your flaps to "DN", drop the landing gear, and try to stay on glide slope. One question you may ask is, "How do I determine my landing speed?" This speed is determined by many factors - runway condition, aircraft weight, wind, etc... So what's best to do is fly your final approach by your Angle of Attack indexer reference rather than a set airspeed. The following excerpt is from the DCS A-10C flight maual...

 

Angle of Attack Indexer

Figure 105. AoA Index Lights

The AoA Indexer is located on the left/front canopy rail beneath the accelerometer gauge, and

provides indication of proper landing angle of attack.

 

DkSMa8l.png

 

The indexer presents the information by displaying illuminated green and yellow symbols; low-speed symbol "\ /", on-speed symbol "circle", and high-speed symbol "/ ". Slightly low/high speed is indicated by the on-speed and low/high speed symbols coming on simultaneously. The AOA indexer lights operate only when the nose gear is down.

 

As you find yourself approaching the runway, keep yourself on glide slope until you pass over the end of the runway. Remember that you are not aiming to land on the end of the runway, rather you are aiming to land on the aiming markers.

 

031828clip_image005.jpg

 

As you come over the end of the runway, slowly pull your throttles to idle, and begin your roundout and flare. Remember that landing on the nosegear is the cardinal sin of landing. As you feel the jet touchdown, deploy the speedbrakes and keep nose in the air a little longer and then slowly bring it down( Careful not to bang it down, or you can damage the nosegear!). Begin braking until you slow down sufficiently to make the turn off the runway onto the nearest taxiway. Hey hey hey, you've just landed! Hope it was good.

 

Always do keep in mind that if at any time during the final approach you feel uneasy or unsure of the landing, the most prudent thing to do is to go around. Simply power up, raise the landing gear, and fly directly over the runway, and fly the pattern again starting at the crosswind leg.


Edited by Kippy
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Before going for traffic patterns, I'd advise going straight in from around 20nm @230knots. Align yourself and wait for the runway threshold to reach about halfway through the 0° and -5° lines in the HUD's pitch ladder. Place the FPM on the threshold, slow down to 180 knots, extend speedbrakes to about 40%, flaps full down, gear down, slow down to the correct AoA, and ride it to touchdown. A gentle flare should suffice, just bring the FPM from the threshold to the end of the runway when at about 50feet AGL; this last part is honestly the hardest for me, I've found that any bouncing is related to an incorrect flare. If you were on the correct glideslope in the first place though, it shouldn't matter much.

 

Also, when landing you control speed (or better yet AoA) with the stick and glidepath with the throttle. That's reverse of what you usually do.


Edited by Gliptal
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Listen to Kippy -- he's a great instructor, speaking from firsthand experience. Traffic patterns were a sort of "next step" for me. I started off using more or less Gliptal's method and then Kippy took it to the next level. If you are handy with the mission editor, make a map that starts you travelling perfectly in-line with the runway, or some distance from the airfield from a random direction if you are practicing traffic pattern entry and landing.

 

If you're not handy with the editor... well one of us could whip one up for you in about 5 minutes, I suppose!

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Wow. I have been doing so much wrong. I just find the airfield (yes, a waypoint is handy for this), look for the black spot on the runway, aim for it, and then pull the nose up before I hit it.

 

I do try to slow down before I get too close. :D

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The first problem given was how to find the airport or runway. This is not a landing problem but a navigation problem. There are many ways to find the runway using waypoints or TACAN or from words over the radio. Often when finding the runway is difficult you eventually find it when you are very close. In this case fly over it at a couple thousand feet as fast as you want in the runway direction and then turn to fly a rectangle pattern. Don't force an approach from high, fast, and close. It will make for a poor approach which will contribute to a poor landing.

 

Landing is a task which combines many separate skills. It is too much work to learn all of them at once so instead we build them separately and put them together at the end, like so:

 

Start at 10,000' and slow below 200. Put out the gear and flaps and even 40% speed brake. Now set up a decent of ~700 ft/min and change throttle and pitch until you get the green doughnut AOA light on. The TVV should be down 2.5 to 3 degrees. Practice this until you're quite bored of it. This is what the approach should look like: slight descent, configured for landing, AOA light on. Because you're at 10,000' there is no runway to focus on just these three things. It will feel very slow and nose is high. Practice pulling the stick back to fly level for a few seconds a few times.

 

When flying toward the runway level (~2000') from a distance the runway will appear high. As you get closer the runway will appear lower. When it is down 2.5-3 degrees that is the time to start the descent. Before you allow yourself to start descent make sure you are matching the practice approach picture from before (except for the descent rate and your speed can be a little faster than the AOA green light). You also want to be pretty close to lined up to the runway centerline a few degrees off at most. If you aren't ready fly another rectangle and try again.

 

The approach should be long and boring. Long and boring approaches are good approaches. From a rough alignment fix your problems in order:

1. Lateral alignment

2. Vertical alignment

3. Speed/AOA

 

Be quick with your fixes. Don't fly an adjustment path which will only align a few seconds before landing. If it is 60s until landing make your fixes which are coming back to center within 10 seconds. The runway should look like /\ not like // o r \\. If it is 60 meters wide you want to be inside that width. If you are to the left put the TVV a few TVV-widths to the right and the change should fix without delay. To stop the fix put the TVV back on the runway.

 

The vertical fix is put the TVV below the runway for too high or on horizon for too low. When the fix is done put the TVV back on the runway.

 

Use throttle control and trim when aligned to get a solid green AOA circle for at least the last 1/3rd of the approach. Wait until the threshold passes under the nose (the TVV being placed on the dark rubber spot ~500' down the runway).

 

The last little bit is the flare or round out. Approach was falling at 700 ft/m rate which is too fast to touchdown. As you get closer to the runway bring the TVV up toward the far end of the runway but not equal or above. Aim for -100 ft/m at impact roughly. As experience grows you can reduce throttle during the flare to make it happen quicker. This is the most "by feel" and "practice makes perfect" skill in the whole process. The more you zoom out and look at the wider picture the better. If desired use the whole runway to descend to see the picture at contact and simply add power and fly away if there's not enough runway left for practice.

 

On steady roll on wheels, throttle minimum, speed brakes full open, track centerline with pedals, and brake as needed. At taxi speeds (10 kt) nose wheel steering comes on and you're driving again.

 

In summary a good landing comes from a good approach. Good approaches are long and boring. Be configured and ~150 kt before you arrive at the top of the approach slope. Always intersect the approach slope level and from below. Fix your lateral, vertical, and AOA early. All corrections should complete within half of the time remaining to runway. Pull the TVV circle almost to the horizon on roundout and wait for the wheels to touch.

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hey man,

first of all im no expert on aviation or on dcs. Im just a guy who loves spending time in this game. If i gave some bad information im sorry and feel free to correct my mistakes. I ll be more than happy learn from them.

in my opinion if you really suck at doing something, you shouldnt try to learn it in a10c. a10c is a complex aircraft lots of systems lots of details(dont get me wrong having more detail doesnt make it hard it just takes more time). get in the su25t and learn to use the hsi ,the adi and the AoA indexer for instrument landing. reason for this is su25t has ssm modelling which means you dont have to learn and use the various systems of the aircraft unlike a10c. hsi , adi and the AoA indexer are pretty much universal instruments for aircrafts. And they can guide you to the airfield and give you precise information on landing if you use them right.

Just get in the su25t and try to land without damaging the aircraft. after you manage that try landing in crosswind, bad weather, low visibility conditions, just try them step by step, not all together like a midnight 10m/s crosswind with storm plus mist.

when i started this game, first thing i tried was to take off and try shooting things but after 1-2 hours i realized that landing perfectly on any condition is the hardest thing you can do on an airplane. so i pretty much practised landing in various weather conditions for 2-3 weeks. this is what i learned, as long as your aircraft systems or not damaged, in any weather, in any visibility conditions there are 3 instruments you always have to watch, they are hsi, adi and AoA indexer. as long as you know what they are saying, you can land without a problem. Once you learn how to use them you can land pretty much every freakin aircraft in this game. Only problem here is this, if you try to learn them on an asm modelled aircraft like a10c u will have to learn the systems that govern the hsi and the adi. like tacan and ils on a10c or like the rsbn on mig21.

so my advice is get in a simple modelled aircraft(su25t, su33, su27,f15 etc.) and learn these instruments first.

Still if you want to learn it in a10c here are some advices.

1)always contact the atc and follow the bearing they give you. it will let you put some good distance between you and the runway so you can land nice and relaxed.

2)dont lower your flaps to down position until a moment before you touchdown. lowering them fully at the right moment will cusion the landing and you will touchdown like a feather.

3)when setting up the course on hsi dont use the course information given you by the tower or the f10 map, or the cdu s divert page. use the ones in your kneeboard pages. find the

airfield you wanna land and get the course information from the detailed page on the kneeboard. airfields have more than 1 pages each on kneeboard use the detailed one for the course information not the simple one.

4)lower the voice of tacan and ils. it will break your concentration.

5)usually u wont have to use the tacan just select the airfield from the cdus divert page as your steerpoint.

6) dont forget to put flight director needles switch to able on the navigation mode select panel(its right behind your flight stick).

7) if you wanna do something while you are on your landing approach, do it slowly. no sharp 70 deggree turns or pushing the trottle to max cos you see low speed indicator on the AoA indexer.

Edit: second advice is not the standart procedure. its just the way how i do it. thanks for Xavven reminding me of it.


Edited by kylekatarn720
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I disagree about lowering your flaps right before touchdown. The correct procedure is to lower flaps on the downwind leg and/or right after completing your turn to final from the base leg (refer to Kippy's graphic a few posts above).

 

Right before touchdown, you should perform a flare (aka roundout) maneuver, which means raising the nose to decrease your rate of vertical descent and soften the landing. The flare should be performed with the flight stick (or yoke) only.

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well, lowering the flaps to down position from maneuver position does pretty much the same thing with flare. i know the procedure is different but i didnt experience any problems this way. but you are right i should have said that this wasnt the standart procedure. gonna edit the post right now.

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When in training line up with the middle of the Runway in your butt crack. Flaps down wheels down, trim.

 

Do not go too slow, especially when you're heavy loaded with armaments. On your right hand side of the HUD your vertical speed should be about minus 4-5. On the threshold you should be about 20 feet up.

 

The trick is to flare to -1 vertical speed which, slightly above landing stall speed, puts your nose up.

 

You rather want a vertical speed of -0- than of -2 or -3 which will make you bump.

 

What you're doing is gliding over there runway with your nose upwards using ground effect using the rudder to stay in the middle of the runway.

 

Now when you cut the throttle, you ease your rear landing wheels to touchdown, with your nosewheel up in the air.

 

Max airbrakes if you hadn't have them out already, touchdown nosewheel, apply brakes, stay in the middle of the runway.

 

Hit INS passing 50 knots when in headwinds, or, when landing in side winds, in between breaking, put rudder in neutral position, hit INS passing 70 knots, then apply brakes again until 20 knots, and with the middle of the runway in your butt crack still.

 

Airbrakes retract, flaps up, look for the runway exit at 20 knt taxi speed.

 

After practicing, you'll want to stop 'floating' the flare, with the experience gained about timing.

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Full flaps and gear down before final. Put the velocity vector onto the part of the runway you want to land on. Keep it there until you're about 50-100 feet off the ground, then start slowly easing the stick back until you have a nose up attitude and put your throttle to idle. Try to keep you vertical speed indicator on the hud to -1 or less. If you do this right you should greaseit in right where you want it.

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