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Gunsight Range and Base adjust


Sokol1_br
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For the "few" who might interested in Spitfire gunsight Range and Base (wingspan) adjust:

 

Don't bother with this is best to do. :)

 

Supposing that distance in game icons is:

 

0.1 = 100 to 199 meters

0.2 = 200 to 299 meters

and so on.

 

Before all: the possible adjust only worth if you know for what convergence/harmonization your guns is set.

 

For Spit Mk.IX is supposed 300 yards(?) - manual say nothing about - but some guys find ~250 yards in their tests. Let's assume that is 300 yards, or - 274 meters.

 

The "enigmatic" default adjust is 350 for Range and 60 for Base, and result in a aperture in horizontal bars corresponding to ~43 Mills (circle diameter is 118 Mills - FM).

 

So a target filling this space is at ~ 244 meters.

 

The Fw 190 in screenshot bellow was "clicked" at the moment (~) the icon changed from 0.3 to 0.2, game at half speed.

 

Gunsight2.jpgimg host

 

Considering all imprecision of this, e.g for adjust 35 feet (Bf 109/Fw 190) wingspan you have to guess the position of dial, for adjust a between 200 and 300 yards have to guess, and measurements in game (distance increments in 100):

 

This aperture in default adjust is more or less 1/3 of the circle and is adequate for "Range ESTIMATION" for convergence/harmonization set for 300 yards, as in RAF Bag the Hun (1943), and your targets will not fly straight like the above Fw 190, you need add the "angle off" in the equation. :D

 

And let's agree, adjust this in SP Quick Missions dogfight with air star is awkward and boring. :P


Edited by Sokol1_br
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Not only did we measure DCS Spitfire IX convergence at 250yds but that would correspond historically.

 

btw I measured for the Mustang also and that is set to 300yds

OS:Win10 Home CPU:i7 3770K 3.5(@4.3GHz) COOLER:ZalmanCNPS10X-PERFORMA MOBO:GigabyteGA-Z77X-UD5H SSD#1:SamsungEVO850Pro 500GB SSD#2:SanDisk240GB HDD:2x Seagate2TB GFX:GigabyteGTX670 WF3 2GB OC1058MHz RAM:16GB 16000MHz DDR3 KEYB'Ds:Corsair K95/MS SidewinderX4 MOUSE:LogitechG700s MON:2x ASUS 24” ROUTER:ASUS RT-N66U DarkKnight INTERWEBS:Fibre152Mbps/12Mbps JOYSTICK:TM T16000m Modded THROTTLE:TM TWCS HEADTRACK:TrackIR5Pro

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In reference to the Bag the Hun as also after some testing:

 

1. The sight settings and don't correspond to the actual distance. In general, the horizontal spacing in sight reticle is smaller indicating target farther away than it should be.

Conclusion - across all the settings the gap between horizontal lines should be wider (thus indicate a closer target).

2. The sight circle is a bit bigger than it should be. It's most apparent when the target is at 100 yards distance but also with other distances.

Conclusion - the sight circle should be smaller. This would allow to match the 100yards target = circle diameter, 200 yards target = 1/2 circle diameter, 300 yards target = 1/3 circle diameter, etc.. rule from Bug the Hun. Note that the circle is static and not affected by the dial settings.

 

The results should be taken with a grain of salt - it's not a quantum laboratory, there is some level of acceptable error. The test was done with Bf 109 and sight base setting to 35 feet. Mission was setup using moving zones attached to the target with 500, 300, 200 and 100 yards diameter and a trigger displaying range for 2s once the Spit entered one of them. Screenshots as also mission is attached.

I really have to practice more as keeping sight perfectly centered on an steady flying target wasn't such an easy job :)

Screen_161227_221700.thumb.jpg.ec17108753c9ff77f1333587d9d3b542.jpg

Screen_161227_221730.thumb.jpg.5545726ca18ddf4eb9f7d5f8908a3f0c.jpg

Screen_161227_221739.thumb.jpg.cfb6458f4d60342ea8272bd11e2e9734.jpg

Screen_161227_221752.thumb.jpg.fc6e0855bf666d60e338c47dadc0d928.jpg

Spitfire MkIX Training03.miz

F/A-18, F-16, F-14, M-2000C, A-10C, AV-8B, AJS-37 Viggen, F-5E-3, F-86F, MiG-21bis, MiG-15bis, L-39 Albatros, C-101 Aviojet, P-51D, Spitfire LF Mk. IX, Bf 109 4-K, UH-1H, Mi-8, Ka-50, NTTR, Normandy, Persian Gulf... and not enough time to fully enjoy it all

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  • 3 months later...
In reference to the Bag the Hun as also after some testing:

 

1. The sight settings and don't correspond to the actual distance. In general, the horizontal spacing in sight reticle is smaller indicating target farther away than it should be.

Conclusion - across all the settings the gap between horizontal lines should be wider (thus indicate a closer target).

2. The sight circle is a bit bigger than it should be. It's most apparent when the target is at 100 yards distance but also with other distances.

Conclusion - the sight circle should be smaller. This would allow to match the 100yards target = circle diameter, 200 yards target = 1/2 circle diameter, 300 yards target = 1/3 circle diameter, etc.. rule from Bug the Hun. Note that the circle is static and not affected by the dial settings.

 

The results should be taken with a grain of salt - it's not a quantum laboratory, there is some level of acceptable error. The test was done with Bf 109 and sight base setting to 35 feet. Mission was setup using moving zones attached to the target with 500, 300, 200 and 100 yards diameter and a trigger displaying range for 2s once the Spit entered one of them. Screenshots as also mission is attached.

I really have to practice more as keeping sight perfectly centered on an steady flying target wasn't such an easy job :)

Would the results be a lot different if you set up the wing span to 32,5 feet (as that is the wingspan of a 109)? I don't remember if you can get below the 35 feet on the gunsight though.

I believe I can incorporate the correction to the mod I've made.

https://www.digitalcombatsimulator.com/en/files/2448553/

 

To sum it up:

In the 100 yards screenshot, both the sight circle and horizontal spacing should be the same size as the wingspan, right?

G6XLe1V.png
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  • 4 months later...

Easier setting for Gunsight base and range

 

Maybe I'm the only one, but I found that the setting of base and range via buttons is a matter of luck, as the movement is way too fast. With axis controls there is no problem, but unfortunately my hardware does not provide enough axis controls.

So I explored ...

1. changing the gain in "clickable.lua": this has worked on some aircraft but it didn't work with the spit. Program crashed at mission start.

2. changing the command value in the "default.lua" under "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\SpitfireLFMkIX\Input\SpitfireLFMkIX\joystick": BINGO!

The command values are normally 1 and -1. I changed them to 0.1 and -0.1 and this results in very smooth rotation of the setting rings. For most this might be the solution to a non-existent problem; but I share it anyway.

These are the original lines in "default.lua":

{pressed = device_commands.Button_8, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_range_plus'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{pressed = device_commands.Button_8, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = -1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_range_minus'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{pressed = device_commands.Button_11, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = 1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_span_plus'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{pressed = device_commands.Button_11, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = -1.0, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_span_minus'), category = _('Gunsight')},

Here are the modified lines:

-- changed HWF 04-SEP-2017

{pressed = device_commands.Button_8, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = -0.1, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_range_plus'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{pressed = device_commands.Button_8, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = 0.1, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_range_minus'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{pressed = device_commands.Button_11, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = 0.1, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_span_plus'), category = _('Gunsight')},
{pressed = device_commands.Button_11, cockpit_device_id = devices.WEAPONS, value_pressed = -0.1, name = _('Input.SpitfireLFMkIX.gun_sight_span_minus'), category = _('Gunsight')},

Using values like 0.2 or 0.3 etc. will make the movement proportionally faster.

Remarks:

1. You may have to redo your control bindings after this change.

2. For changing the .lua files always use the free Notepad++.

3. I actually did not change the original lines. I prefixed them with "-- " to change them to comments, and created new lines with the changed values. This way it's easier to restore original functionality if necessary.

4. Any update will restore the stock file. Use OvGME to manage modded files!

5. I bound the 4 commands to a 4-way hat on my new MongoosT-50 stick: Base to L and R, range to U and D.

  • Like 1

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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That's what I needed to know :), I now have the ideal value of 0.2 which could be the default.

LeCuvier thank you very much for sharing the handy parameter.

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Good idea, I use this value too for compass, DG, rudder trim, cockpit lights dimmer.

 

Now need find a way to increase speed of elevator trim. :)

Hi Sokol,

I suppose you tried to do it the same way as gunsight range etc.? But no, I see that one has different logic. Will look at clickabledata.lua tomorrow if a certain lady lets me...


Edited by LeCuvier

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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@Sokol:

I changed the gain in "clickabledata.lua" from 0.01 to 0.5, and DCS crashed at mission start. Makes you wonder why there is a "gain" parameter at all. Apparently the "speed" of trim is hardcoded.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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I try with even numbers*, 0.02, 0.08 and no crash, but not sure if make effect.

 

EDIT - Yes, use a stopwatch and confirm, no effect in elevator trim adjust speed.

 

For magnetic compass happens the same, with odd number the command became highlight in red in controls. Find 0.2 the ideal value for compass.


Edited by Sokol1_br
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A classical problem in engineering/software project management. Every engineer wants to do things his own way. A well managed project does not allow this to happen.

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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if only this can work with 109...

AWAITING ED NEW DAMAGE MODEL IMPLEMENTATION FOR WW2 BIRDS

 

Fat T is above, thin T is below. Long T is faster, Short T is slower. Open triangle is AWACS, closed triangle is your own sensors. Double dash is friendly, Single dash is enemy. Circle is friendly. Strobe is jammer. Strobe to dash is under 35 km. HDD is 7 times range key. Radar to 160 km, IRST to 10 km. Stay low, but never slow.

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if only this can work with 109...

Which controls? I could make it work on 2 controls that are normally too fast for button control:

1. Altimeter pressure

On this one you can change the command values in the "default.lua". Here are the lines I changed. The original lines are commented out with "--":

--Altimeter 
--        {pressed = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id  = devices.ALTIMETER, value_pressed = -1.0, name = _('Altimeter pressure set Decrease'), category = _('Front Dash')},
--        {pressed = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id  = devices.ALTIMETER, value_pressed =  1.0, name = _('Altimeter pressure set Increase'), category = _('Front Dash')},
--reduced command value HWF 07-SEP-2017
       {pressed = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id  = devices.ALTIMETER, value_pressed = -0.2, name = _('Altimeter pressure set Decrease'), category = _('Front Dash')},
       {pressed = device_commands.Button_1, cockpit_device_id  = devices.ALTIMETER, value_pressed =  0.2, name = _('Altimeter pressure set Increase'), category = _('Front Dash')},

2. Compass course

On this one, changing the command values in "default.lua" has no effect. But changing the gain parameter in "clickabledata" under "C:\Program Files\Eagle Dynamics\DCS World\Mods\aircraft\Bf-109K-4\Cockpit\Scripts" works. Here are the original and changed lines:

        -- Repeater Compass
-- changed gain    HWF 07-SEP-2017    
       -- elements["RCS_RING"] = default_axis(_("Cockpit.Bf109K4.repeater_compass"), devices.REMOTE_COMPASS, device_commands.Button_1, 12, 0.0, 0.5, false, true, true)        
       elements["RCS_RING"] = default_axis(_("Cockpit.Bf109K4.repeater_compass"), devices.REMOTE_COMPASS, device_commands.Button_1, 12, 0.0, 0.005, false, true, true)

This works for me. I have bound the 4 commands to a 4-way hat on my T-50 stick.

 

PS: yet another example for the inconsistent programming style in the DCS modules. This must be hell for the people who do the software maintenance.


Edited by LeCuvier

LeCuvier

Windows 10 Pro 64Bit | i7-4790 CPU |16 GB RAM|SSD System Disk|SSD Gaming Disk| MSI GTX-1080 Gaming 8 GB| Acer XB270HU | TM Warthog HOTAS | VKB Gladiator Pro | MongoosT-50 | MFG Crosswind Pedals | TrackIR 5

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  • 2 years later...
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