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China get Su-33!


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Russia’s state exporter of weapons, Rosoboronexport is completing negotiations to ship to China up to 50 Su-33 jet fighters for a total worth of $2.5 billion. If the deal is ever clinched, it will be the second biggest contract for export of Russia’s armaments.

 

http://www.kommersant.com/p715509/China_jet_fighters_export/

 

Next add, Lock-On Carrier Ops? ;)

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The Mig-29M/K would be better, for those Su-33's are going to be very basic in every capability.

 

I also dont understand why china needs a carrier. Historcaly speaking china has never liked naval projection, being most of the time completely isolationist in this regard. Also to protect a carrier it is needed a disproportional amount of other vessels to protect it.

To make things worse, the aplication of just one medium carrier makes not much sense but to subjucate a smaller oponent navy.

 

In my view this is only for show off.

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The Mig-29M/K would be better, for those Su-33's are going to be very basic in every capability.
My sources are telling me that these Su-33’s will have plasma shields. Here’s the challenge: when you reveal your sources, I will reveal mine.

 

I also dont understand why china needs a carrier.
Next Thursday I am going to Shanghai. I will talk to people there. HINT: other countries have aircraft carries.

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LOL dude, always ready for a good argument. :D

 

My sources are telling me that these Su-33’s will have plasma shields. Here’s the challenge: when you reveal your sources, I will reveal mine.

 

What? star trek? ;)

 

Mine are facts, and some common sense for example:

 

-Su-33's dont have any AG guided weaponry, nor can they carry but light loads for their non assisted take off.

-China wont do better for its Su-33's that they havent donne for their J-11's.

-China has never made top of the line fighters but to copy existing ones, to a downgraded level.

 

Next Thursday I am going to Shanghai. I will talk to people there. HINT: other countries have aircraft carries.

 

They will tell you that carrier will rule them all. Better find an impartial source.

To my knowelege, Only USA, UK, and france have ever mounted their own operations with carriers in hot spots and conflicts. Every single carrier nation had only used their examples under controlled scenarios, nor they have experience to do so, much less to throw them as spearheads of naval projection at war.

 

Its not enough to have ONE carrier but also the means to sustain losses and others to back it up. Spain, Malaysia, italy, india, or china will never risk their flagship in major offensives at sea in parity conditions. These nations, as well as china are notorious for their influence projection ambitions, much of wich is donne at the cost of some show off with paper tigers.

Others that have more than 1 carrier batlegroup like UK, US and france had donne, and will again if needed.

US has no competition at all, while UK and france are well developed and rich enough to buy new vessels without taking their budgets to bankrupcy or contract debts for decades nor deprive their people of funds for them.

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what is that any different from what has already been done with their J-11's for example?

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LOL dude, always ready for a good argument. :D

You are my man! :)

What? star trek? ;)
No, it is “real” fact. And I told you I will reveal my source only after you reveal your source about your previous statements.

 

Mine are facts, and some common sense for example:
Line them up:

 

-Su-33's dont have any AG guided weaponry, nor can they carry but light loads for their non assisted take off.
The first part of the sentence comes as your misunderstanding of the role of Su-33. Su-33 is not AG weapons system. Although it can carry anti ship missiles. Well known to us is Su-39 that does AG missions from Kuznetsov.

The second part of your sentence is your opinion because I just can not find any source stating that Su-33 can not take off with “full” load off the carrier.

 

Facts you said?

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Well known to us is Su-39 that does AG missions from Kuznetsov.

 

Again no.

 

The Sukhoi that operates from the Kuz is the Su-25UTG which is used to familiarize Navy pilots with carrier procedures. One Su-25UT was converted to Su-25UTG with no others being built.

 

The Su-25UTG cannot carry any Ordnance, it has no cannons nor does it have a Fire Control Computer and avionics to launch any ordnance/cannons. It is a pure trainer.

 

 

A sidenote question? Was the Su-33M project cancelled only due to Russian financial problems? Because if so, I suppose that China has the money to revive it.

:detective:

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My understanding that was the reasoning, more of a financial matter rather than technical. As we've seen, the Su-30 and -35 programs have shown alot can be done, if the money is there.

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The Su-39 will rust away on the Kuz, let alone it won't be able to land on it, not in such a way that you'll be able to take off after at least. ;)

Su-39 is only for land airfields, it's just the su-25T (modified -UB airframe) with upgraded avoinics and AG-AA radar. It can not land on any kind of carrier, now was it designed to, you're living in Flanker fantasies on that part.

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Well keep in mind the modifications that were made to Su-30's etc.

 

China may have paid for updated avionics in their Su-33 which Russia had cancelled for their own fleet.

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I think we can be pretty sure that if China indeed does purchase Su-33s, they will be multirole jets and not of the same configuration as those currently operated by Russia.

 

Moreover, the question is whether they will even have similar airframes. A new multirole version of the Su-33 already exists in prototype form - namely the two-seat Su-27KUB, which has similar radar/weapons system to that of the MiG-29K(9-41 purchased by India), but also quite a few new airframe features.

 

My guess is that a new-built export Su-33 for China would look more like a single seat version of the Su-27KUB than the current Su-33 version operated by Russia.

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

JJ

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My guess is that a new-built export Su-33 for China would look more like a single seat version of the Su-27KUB than the current Su-33 version operated by Russia

 

Correct. Export name Su-33UB with thrust vector engines.

 

http://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/flankers_pages/su-27kub.htm

 

Su-27KUB, which has similar radar/weapons system to that of the MiG-29K(9-41 purchased by India)

 

Not correct. Similar Russian system (like Su-30MKK, MKK2 made by holding Sukhoi)

 

http://www.rosprom.gov.ru/en/news.php?id=291

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The Chinese got money but not a whole lotta brains.

 

So let them build carriers and buy Su-33s...make them spend their money and have the Americans drop a nuke on them when the right moment strikes...

 

Im not worried :)

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The defense of Taiwan just got that much more harder....

 

Taiwan has a lot more to fear from shore born cruise missiles than the chinese airforce.

 

Taiwan AF is pretty strong. That Islands softer spot lies somewhere else.

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The Chinese got money but not a whole lotta brains.

 

So let them build carriers and buy Su-33s...make them spend their money and have the Americans drop a nuke on them when the right moment strikes...

 

Im not worried :)

 

Dumb post, and needless too. :disgust:

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I think we can be pretty sure that if China indeed does purchase Su-33s, they will be multirole jets and not of the same configuration as those currently operated by Russia.

 

If they are going to be modern multirole fighters they cant do much of that from the carrier. Without unassisted take off, they can only take a very limited load. If more is felt to be needed they have to operate from land bases alongside the J-11's. Moreover, without super carrier class vessel, and no catapults, its bring back capability will be virtualy zero. And that could be a very expensive proposition.

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The Chinese got money but not a whole lotta brains.

 

So let them build carriers and buy Su-33s...make them spend their money and have the Americans drop a nuke on them when the right moment strikes...

 

Im not worried :)

 

Not only is China a nation that has nuclear power, it is together with Russia and the US a nation who actually have got humans in space.

 

BTW, China is an untouchable nation because it simply is an allied nation with Russia like the same way Europe is an (untouchable) allied nation of the US.

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The Chinese got money but not a whole lotta brains.

 

So let them build carriers and buy Su-33s...make them spend their money and have the Americans drop a nuke on them when the right moment strikes...

 

Im not worried :)

 

like that's not going to cause a flame war...:thumbdown: btw I'm chinese, looks like you are the one that lacks a whole lotta brains. Think before you say something on a public forum.

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Not only is China a nation that has nuclear power, it is together with Russia and the US a nation who actually have got humans in space.

 

BTW, China is an untouchable nation because it simply is an allied nation with Russia like the same way Europe is an (untouchable) allied nation of the US.

 

 

You are wrong. There isnt, nor there will be any kind of formal alliance between any of these 3 countries, even when china's and URRS were both communist. Much the same way North Korea broke the pipe of friedship with USSR, but that was a more radical depart.

China has swong its preferrence between US and russia over the years even during the cold war. The russians do not trust the chinese fully due to historical reasons but also politicaly culturaly and geographicaly.

 

They keep selling them weapons because thats one of the major russians export income, but note that they dont give away the same goodies the Indians have.

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