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To ED Lomac Developers - discussion - make 3d modding flourish


3d Roger
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To ED Lomac Developers - An open discussion - what is needed i feel to make 3d Lomac modding flourish

 

To Eagle Dynamics

 

Dear Sirs , and with respect ,

i would like to share with you and the lomac community some thoughts

 

To make some requests ,and share some ideas on what i feel is required to make 3d modding of Lomac flourish.

 

Firstly it is commendable that modding tools have been released,bravo for the 3dmax exporters and

the texture tools etc.

 

Secondly i would like to make some requests with respect ,would these ideas be possible to

implement via a lomac modding patch if possible ?

 

1 - could you please release the pilot model in 3dmax form ? so 3d modders could add the official

lomac pilot model, to the cockpits of any new 3d model aircraft made by the community

 

2 - would it be possible to provide an infinite number of slots for new aircraft and ground vehicles

to be added ?,with a generic flight model for new aircraft.

 

This would remove the need for existing lomac aircraft having to be sacrificed / removed in order

for a new 3d community aircraft to be added - the so called transvestism effect !

 

3- would it be possible for new community 3d aircraft models to be easily added into lomac via the

infinite slot system suggested above , with the addition of say a new 2d cockpit effect for each

new model , along with a generic flight model ?

 

to explain further / clarify - what i envisage is aircraft being able to be integrated into lomac ,

in the same fashion as say is done in fs2004, nice new aircraft , with 2d cockpits and a generic

flight model

 

==============

 

Respectfully i feel the submission of 3d models to ED for approval and inclusion is understandable in respect of 3d cockpits , flight model etc

 

But it is also i feel highly unrealistic to expect most hobby 3d web modellers and modders to fall

into the quality of workmanship expected to satisfy ED's stringent 3d workmanship requirements to

make any new 3d model truely Lomac worthy.

 

Respectfully ,if this were the case, we would all be working for you already on salary !

 

I sincerely feel that you need to open up Lomac , with some control aspect kept on behalf of ED of course , and to make Lomac the new FS2004 in terms of 3d modding.

 

==============

 

Can you imagine Lomac with quality 50k poly models of various aircraft , ships and vehicles ,infinite vehicle slots and new 2d cockpits for the new community 3d aircraft , and a generic flight model for said new aircraft

 

This would become a truely awesome and varied 3d virtual world ,in the lomac game engine.

 

Imagine Lomac flourishing with all the 3d models as in the FS2004 game engine ,but with the ability

to fire weapons , something which the microsoft flight sim series never has or probably will have !

 

In summary the suggestions are

 

1 lomac pilot model please

 

2 infinite vehicle slots - a generic flight model for new 3d community aircraft

 

3 2d drawn cockpits implemented for new community 3d aircraft models

 

===========

 

I feel these suggestions also would have no commercial implication on ED releasing and selling high quality future addon aircraft in the future , as ED would only be able to implement 3d cockpits , avionics and true correct flight models on addon packs.

 

The community would be restricted to 2d cockpits ,generic flight model etc.

 

==========

 

In conclusion , thanks for your time and reading , i look forward to positive community discussion

 

I hope for a positive response from ED,i really sincerly hope we can make this happen , and to make 3d modding of the lomac game engine flourish.

 

Its a brillant 3d virtual world and deserves and cries out to be expanded !

 

All the best , take care

 

Roger :-)

 

Troffmeister

 

http://3dmilitarymodels.xeepo.com/

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You have some great points there that i hope ED will consider (especially the different slots), have you tried e-mailing them rather than posting this thread? Because they rarely show up in the english forum, they usually hang around in the russian forum. But one thing that's going to be kinda hard to both the devs and community to do is the flight model. Its going to be hard for the devs to allow the community to start messing with the FM because that would cause chaos for online play where some people have different #'s and so forth. Even though we have some talented people who make beautiful models, such as yourself and many others, we probably have little or no clue how these planes will perform in the game. Creating new models is one thing, but the FM might be a little more diffficult. Any thoughts?

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

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To clarify on generic flight models idea , i suggest something like a fighter fm , a bomber fm etc etc

 

for example say i wanted to add a b1b or tu160 blackjack to the game with a 2d cockpit , new 3d model from the community etc - the generic flight model to be used would be a heavy bomber generic flight model that maybe ED could provide , along with a vacant slot in the game engine - you would end up with a player flyable b1b or tu160 , with new 3d model and a 2d cockpit - community made .

 

This is pretty much what happens in FS2004 , and you can have some really sweetly drawn 2d cockpit displays imho !

 

Obviously if Ed wanted to release in future an addon of b1b / tu 160 on a commercial basis , i am sure they would have nothing to fear from the community made aircraft and 2d cockpit.

 

Ed would be the only ones to be able to do a true 3d cockpit , correct fm , and avionics etc - sp they retain overall control over their game engine on the commercial basis .

 

Hope this clarifies my line of thinking :-)

 

Roger

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The only real simulator is one of those 747 ones etc with the hydraulic motion legs thats cost about a billion dollars - and even then you could argue - whats realism ?

 

lomac is a pc flight sim game engine - a virtual world , with some aircraft modelled "cough" realistically ?

 

Thats what the kid in adsa / walmart is thinking when he pays his £10 for his lomac gold version

 

If lomac wants to sell more copies to a wider audience, and ED want to make more money via sales etc - it could do alot worse than open itself up to better 3d modding prospects eg fs2004

 

its a shame you could not add something more positive to the thred ,like your support - rather than shoot down the proposal with the REALISTIC SIMULATOR issue !

 

Roger

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thanks its not MY cause !

 

i have raised this issue on behalf of everyone, that might like to see easier 3d modding

 

and i am not mocking anyone , least of all ED or Lomac

 

I believe what i said is correct - lomac is a pc flight sim game engine - a virtual world , with some aircraft modelled "cough" realistically ?

 

now seeing as i am not a mig 29 pilot in real life , i could not tell you , if lomac is mig 29 flight modelled realistic for example

 

i did not buy the product personally for realism - i was just seduced by the screenshots of 3d loveliness -lol

 

anyway i don't want to debate ,or open up a can of worms discussion on realism / realistic or whats a simulator , hell i just fly around in this pc game engine virtual world and have fun with it !

 

At the end of the day its ED's baby and i am just asking on behalf of everyone , is there any chance we can add new 3d stuff into the game engine a little easier please ? nothing more nothing less !

 

and on that note i will shut the hell up and let the rest of you get on with it

 

:-)

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Allowing aircraft to be added nilly-willy is a disaster waiting to happen. It has happened before, it will happen again - period. The only saving grace for Falcon there was that it was such a PITA, that anyone who wanted to goof around by adding X-Wings etc would probably not have the patience to go and ruin other's games (not to mention MP sucked there)

 

LOMAC? In LOMAC, give people that ability and poof goes the only world. Forget it.

 

Already there's this Raptor-S47 hybrid (which is very ironically being called a 'stealth S-47' .. what a joke) and it's all well and good enough that you can replace a Su-33's model with it ... but heavens forbid someone could actuall tweak the FM at all, or the RCS, or -anything-. Man.

 

There is simply no way to do anything truly useful with this ifyou can't tweak the FM. It's a fad, schtick, bling bling. Nothing more.

 

You wanna add a plane? Get me a good A-10 and F-15 model first ;)

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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Allowing aircraft to be added nilly-willy is a disaster waiting to happen. It has happened before, it will happen again - period. The only saving grace for Falcon there was that it was such a PITA, that anyone who wanted to goof around by adding X-Wings etc would probably not have the patience to go and ruin other's games (not to mention MP sucked there)

 

LOMAC? In LOMAC, give people that ability and poof goes the only world. Forget it.

 

Already there's this Raptor-S47 hybrid (which is very ironically being called a 'stealth S-47' .. what a joke) and it's all well and good enough that you can replace a Su-33's model with it ... but heavens forbid someone could actuall tweak the FM at all, or the RCS, or -anything-. Man.

 

There is simply no way to do anything truly useful with this ifyou can't tweak the FM. It's a fad, schtick, bling bling. Nothing more.

 

You wanna add a plane? Get me a good A-10 and F-15 model first ;)

 

amen! to that my friend. There is a reason for lock on being called a simulator. There was a reason for which ED did not release the 3d tools earlier. I am not saying that the community work is not good enough considering that i myself don;t do any modelling and even stopped making skins. yet...there is the concept of quality which ED seem to develop considering they are being paid...and there is a concept of "I think it looks nice" like the Su-34 or whatever here. I agree...it does look nice...but kinda spoils the whole purpose of lock on as a sim.

 

ED released the tools for the purpose that the low quality models can be improved by the community...not to add a raptor or something like that which is entirely "useless" in the lomac concept.

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I think people can judge for them selves what they want to do with their property. If they want to add a plane or anything at all. I think the customer should have a chance to do with it what he/she wants.

 

For example.

If you buy a car and want to tune it to make it more cool. But no manufacturer makes parts for your car because it isn't realistic.

Its a weird example, but its the same thing

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hey...thats a valid point as well. I was just referring to the concept of the cockpits and all. Just think about it....it would be chaos...incompatibility in multiplayer and so on....more bugs.....this time bugs made by the public due to added stuff....it will just prolong the lomac concept further than ED want to.

 

In either case....everyone has their own opinion. I understand some ppl want to mod their game to suit them....however..I like some others....want to keep my game the way the game was meant to be played but only with minor graphical modifications like skins and so on.

 

I'll leave it up to ED to decide the plane they want to add. With experience with this company...we have learnt that they will definately make something worth while....and then make trailers and screenshots to see...based on which we can judge a purchase.

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I think people will be very unhappy with some guy jumping in with an X-Wing on a public MP server.

 

You are -not- correct. You -cannot- do whatever you like with your car. While you might not be caught, if your car does not meet regulations, you just did something illegal - if you're going to drive on public roads - not to mention likely obnoxious and dangerous.

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

Reminder: SAM = Speed Bump :D

I used to play flight sims like you, but then I took a slammer to the knee - Yoda

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To 3d Roger

 

We understood the importance for simulator the available open tools. But I want inform that LOMAC primordial isn't open project and so we have a number technical problems with your wishes about void slots for aircrafts and cockpits.

Undoubtedly we'll think about that opportunity for next projects but for LOMAC I can't promise anything. Perhaps we shall can to do anything for this.

Я не смотрю телевизор

ЧИЖ

 

Вакансии в ED

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In my opinion, these tools let us making the best possible 3d model with the most possible acurate animations for it and sned all the models to ED team.

If the model met the ED's requierments in terms of quality, documentations, we "may" see a new aircraft in the game coming with a patch. And this is the best solution to keep the game the same for everybody who play it online.

Oleg Madog done this before with succes in IL2 serie, without any recrimination for all gamers.

SO what are the interest of these tools, you may ask ?

For modelers and i am, it's a big step. Instead of working hours and hours, sending models to ED and waiting for scrrens or news, i can do all my tests "in game " by myself, i SEE my work directely and i dont feel waisting my time. I can adjust animations, skins, everythings, precisely and give ED a fully fonctionnal product. And this is a HUDGE gift for me :)

But people are people and you will always find one to cry because he dont have any X-wing or Spitfire in game. And even they have X-wing, they will complain about FM's ....

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I agree with Knell :) .

 

I don't think it was ever the intention of ED to turn Lock-on into a MSFS-style "mod scene", but rather to give third party modellers better conditions for working on 3D projects for Lock-on. This is of mutual benefit to both ED and the modeller:

 

1). As Knell said, the models being sent to ED for review are likely to be much more refined and "lockon ready" when the modeller can see for him/herself how the model appears in the game and can correct any "glitches" along the way.

 

2). The modeller does not have to wait for ED to review the model and derrive a list of necessary modifications, but can work more directly on meeting the requirements.....and if the model isn't of a nature compatible with ED's vision for Lock-on or for some other reason is being rejected for official inclusion, the work isn't lost because the model can be used for a "mod" and offered to the community all the same.

 

On the cockpits,

 

Why should third party aircraft be using 2D cockpits? :huh: . Every flyable aircraft in Lock-on has a 3D pit which is a separate 3D model. If you can make a 3D aircraft model with a cockpit, what would stop you from making a high fidelity version of this(the cockpit) for player purposes.....as far as I can gather, most functions(gauges and warning LEDs) are argument based animations like those for the external aircraft model - meaning that it should be possible(haven't experimented with this yet though) to build a 3D cockpit envirionment with working "interactive elements"(gear handle, flight stick, throttle etc), gauges and warning lamps in the right places......the positioning of HUD and HDD displayed information could be a problem though.

 

However, I support 3D Roger's request for "open source(max)" pilot models.....this would be a great help to the third party aircraft modeller :)

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

JJ

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Chizh , thanks for your reply and for considering the proposal :-)

 

All the best to all you guys at ED , big appreciation from me for the lomac virtual world you made .

 

If you could manage somehow to free up some additional object slots , that in itself would help alot , and prevent transvestism of the flyable planes.

 

Thanks for the other opinions expressed here , alot of valid points to consider

 

thanks to all

 

Roger :-)

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I suggested 2d cockpits for community 3d mod models for the following reasons

 

- i did not want to push my luck in requesting too much , and looking greedy / unreasonable !

 

- i was under the impression that 3d cockpits were kinda the holy grail - a secret that ED did not want people messing around with - thats just the opinion that had formed in my head , so i am probably completely wrong on this notion !!! ?????

 

Overall i was trying to make a reasonable maybe achievable proposal to ED , rather than a silly request to say - hey give us all your tools , and access toy your game engine or else - lol !

 

Also harking back to the fs2004 example - 2d cockpit views can be done very nicely - but i appreciate 3d is better and more desirable to those desiring more realistic cockpit environment for new models etc

 

I hope that explains my rationale on this issue

 

Roger :-)

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I understand your reasoning on the 2D versus 3D pits Roger, but I don't think it is desirable nor even makes things any easier :) . Since only 3D pits are used in Lock-on, it would seem that introducing 2D ones would require a whole lot of code modifications.

 

We don't have a list of draw arguments for instrument functions, so we would have to do some research work on this ourselves, but it doesn't look like building a working 3D cockpit environment would be much different from building an external aircraft model.

 

Check this thread by Strikemax on the subject:

http://www.forum.lockon.ru/showpost.php?p=245214&postcount=1

 

I don't pretend to think that we can produce 3D pits to the level of what we get with the Ka-50 pit in Black Shark, but something like the current Lock-on pits with a higher degree of 3D should be within reach - and if anything I think texturing something 2D to obtain the illusion of 3D is much more difficult than working on something that actually is 3D.

 

Just my 2 cents worth :)

 

Cheers,

- JJ.

JJ

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I'd hate the idea of any aircraft or anything else in the "sim" having a GENERIC FM etc... that is just pure nonsence... IF you want a "sim" in the first place... terrible idea which I hope NEVER get's put into place !

No longer active in DCS...

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I suggested 2d cockpits for community 3d mod models for the following reasons

 

- i did not want to push my luck in requesting too much , and looking greedy / unreasonable !

All the information you need is inside the existing cockpits ("kabina" files). You can check all arguments in the model viewer and see what they do. Then you can make a new model which implements these arguments.
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