F-5 Bombing Accuracy

[canned_fire]

Hello,

 

I was wondering what is the expected bombing accuracy of an aircraft without computer aided aiming. For example: within 50 feet - excellent, up to 100 feet - above average, etc... Back then to "pass the course" how close to the target a pilot had to consistently land his bombs? By the way does anyone know today's pass/fail criteria for the F16/18 dumb bombs?

 

All this because I was trying to destroy a tank with Mk82. So how close to the tank a Mk82 need to land to destroy it? Does anyone know? I guess a bullseye does the job, but is 50 feet good enought?

 

Thanks.

[fjacobsen]

Bombs in DCS are generally too weak and requires almost direct hits

 

Accuracy depends on alot of factors:

-Attack profile, Tossing, Level bombing, Dive attack.

-Parameters must fit, Airspeed, Dive angle, release altitude, Sight setting.

-Pilot skills ;-)

 

Until computers where available for CCIP and CCRP calculations, bomb accuracy was rather low and has until these computers became available, been a problem, so don´t expect a high hit/miss ratio.

[Angus]

if you want to become a tank sniper" one shot one kill" , use GBU12 with JTAC or budy lasing :smartass:

 

With a lot of training (and a bit of talent and luck) you can make a hit with the MK82.

 

I'm joking a bit, but it's true that the bombing in F5 is not easy.That's why we love it :thumbup:

[WinterH]

My motto with destroying tanks with dumb bombs in DCS : drop a bunch of them at once.

 

With depressed reticle setting for a certain dive profile, and perfectly flying said profile, without any wind, you can theoretically be decently accurate. But even, "one bomb one tank" is just not likely.

 

With Mk-82s or FAB-250s as the Russian equivalent, you need an almost direct hit to reliably destroy tanks in DCS. Or even some of the harder skinned IFVs for that matter. Dropping a pair or more of bombs increase your probability to score a kill. Attacking a column or bunched up concentration of vehicles with many boms : even better, as dumb bombs or rockets are more of area attack weapons than point target weapons anyway.

 

Although I haven't flown for almost half a year now, my favorite type of bombing with F-5 (or MiG-21 for that matter), is a low altitude level bombing pass on a convoy of vehicles. With some practice, you can find a profile that works for you.

[Kev2go]

Hello,

 

I was wondering what is the expected bombing accuracy of an aircraft without computer aided aiming. For example: within 50 feet - excellent, up to 100 feet - above average, etc... Back then to "pass the course" how close to the target a pilot had to consistently land his bombs? By the way does anyone know today's pass/fail criteria for the F16/18 dumb bombs?

 

All this because I was trying to destroy a tank with Mk82. So how close to the tank a Mk82 need to land to destroy it? Does anyone know? I guess a bullseye does the job, but is 50 feet good enought?

 

Thanks.

 

dunno about pilot critera for aircraft but i do know that even with Computed assisted bombing CCIP on the F16 the USAF had a 30m, CEP (Circular error probable) in Perfect weather conditions.

 

so even with good dive, and a timely release, good weather, the USAF isnt expecting pinpoint accuracy with unguided bombs, with aforementioned computed assistance. So i suppose if a pilot gets a drop within 30m distance or less of a target, he can pat himself on the back.

 

So dont have high expectations with accuracy, nor should you feel bad, if you dont get direct or near direct hits, with manual bombing. Now what makes ground kill harder in DCS is that air to ground ordinance don't have splash damage properly simulated, so in most cases you are forced to get a direct ( or very near direct) hit to completely destroy a target like a Main battle tank. It also doesnt help that vehicles damage is based on a "health Bar" arcade like model.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Kev2go

[bC3660]

Use The Force!

[canned_fire]

dunno about pilot critera for aircraft but i do know that even with Computed assisted bombing CCIP on the F16 the USAF had a 30m, CEP (Circular error probable) in Perfect weather conditions.

 

so even with good dive, and a timely release, good weather, the USAF isnt expecting pinpoint accuracy with unguided bombs, with aforementioned computed assistance. So i suppose if a pilot gets a drop within 30m distance or less of a target, he can pat himself on the back.

 

 

Thanks for the answer. So if for CCIP it is 30m, then I suppose for aircraft without CCIP it would be more than 30m, maybe 50m? . I was hoping some old F-5 pilot would clarify this.

[fjacobsen]

It´s not 30m CCIP, but 30m CEP (Circular error probable). - two different things.

[rogonaut]

try this procedure if u havent already, its from the training and the manual as well i think:

 

gun depression at 80 (clockwise)

5000 ft over ground

dive in when u see the targets at 10 o´clock

speed at dive in 350-370 kn

release bombs at 1500 ft above ground and speed at roughly 400 kn

 

dont forget to add the 5000 ft to witch ever altitude your targets are on^^

 

i dont know if thats the "real" procedure, i think they were faster and steaper on the attack but i have no real life evidence on that.

 

 

not sure if u wanted to know this at all actually - but i had such a great time writing this down :D

Edited December 12, 2016 by rogonaut

[fjacobsen]

try this procedure if u havent already, its from the training and the manual as well i think:

 

gun depression at 80 (clockwise)

5000 ft over ground

dive in when u see the targets at 10 o´clock

speed at dive in 350-370 kn

release bombs at 1500 ft above ground and speed at roughly 400 kn

 

dont forget to add the 5000 ft to witch ever altitude your targets are on^^

 

i dont know if thats the "real" procedure, i think they were faster and steaper on the attack but i have no real life evidence on that.

 

 

not sure if u wanted to know this at all actually - but i had such a great time writing this down :D

 

For such parameters to work You also need to state dive angle.

For Your attack parameters to work, a dive angle of 20° should be used according to the table in the manual page 242.

 

Gem

[Erk104]

I have even found that the numbers provided in the manual are not highly accurate... I have found with MK-82 to release at 30 degree dive angle at 400 kts at a 2000 ft AGL (Above Ground Level you must account for elevation) that aim off 35 Depression works quite nicely.

 

Its probably different for everyone though... The key is to practice practice practice until you are tired of it... then practice a little more. Then one day when the time and the wind is just right you will drop a 82 down the open hatch of a T-90 and it will all be worth it. :pilotfly:

[rogonaut]

i totaly forgot the dive angle lol