Taking Out SAM

[Avio]

What's your preferred way of taking out SAM? Besides obvious choice like JDAM, using LGB in CCRP seems to need getting very close to SAM, which isn't a wise choice. Any better method?

 

Also, while hunting with TGP, how high and at what bank angle do you circle? Tried it at 20,000 ft and banking about 30 degrees, but non-masking duration only a small fraction of time. What setup is best for long distance scope hunting?

[NeilWillis]

AGM 65s are the obvious choice. They give you around a 6 mile stand off, and if you stay high, you can stay out of harms way with the shorter range SAMs. Otherwise, put some good solid terrain in the way and get your wingman to do the dirty work!

 

The key with TGP searches is to have the pod on the inside wing in the turn, and to orbit around 6 miles from the target. If you have to stay away from enemy positions, then even with this method, 50% of the time you'll be masked. If you can overfly any territory however, a 12 mile radius turn will give you lots of pod time.

[David OC]

Checkout

, really good in depth training. He runs through complete missions and how he thinks about getting the missions done.

 

Oldie but a goodie by Wags.

 

YAQS7sSQB3s

[Avio]

Thanks for all the helpful guides.

 

Say if going against a really long range SAM, how is that done in real world?

 

Edit : Just watched that video. Awesome.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Avio

[Avio]

When it comes to making a SPI, is it better to always lase the target first? Lasing seems not possible when flying 90 degree offset to target.

 

What is the max slant range that the laser is still good to use?

[Hesgad]

When it comes to making a SPI, is it better to always lase the target first? Lasing seems not possible when flying 90 degree offset to target.

 

What is the max slant range that the laser is still good to use?

 

Why would you go defensive when you want to attack it?....to attack you need to fly at it....go defensive only when you don't plan on killing it.

 

H Mavs work nicely when you force correlate them....but depending on the SAM and where it's at avoiding it might always be the first choice

[fixen]

Thanks for all the helpful guides.

 

Say if going against a really long range SAM, how is that done in real world?

 

Edit : Just watched that video. Awesome.

 

In real life you are not going to fight long range SAM systems in the A-10. Furthermore, in real life, SAM's are much more deadly because they are integrated in a network of EWR and many other systems. They are not as stupid as depicted in the game right now, and won't be giving their location away the whole time by having their radar on.

Long range SAM's can be dealt with by ARM's or a high saturation of cruise missiles, among other methods which are not roles of the A-10. Ingame it is rather easy killing short range SA-7's with mavericks, but I would not like to be flying a A-10 through a field of SA-7's in real life without other aircraft to support.

Edited December 10, 2016 by fixen

[Nu-NRG]

Fixen summed it up.

[David OC]

ralfi shows you a good option to use with the TGP so it stays on the target even when getting very low.

 

SA-10 site with a Maverick, not recommend tho.

 

jkPCdN5yRo4

 

 

[Braeden108]

When something pops up on my RWR, I turn to put it off my 12,3,6, or 9. I can then go to my TAD and move my cursor in the direction of the sam with ease. I move the cursor some distance out and make a markpoint I then instantly press china hat alf and make another markpoint. This gives me a line between points. I then fly some distance away, and repeat the process, put it on a cardinal direction and make a line. I might do this more than twice I might not. But what this allows you to do is find where your lines intersect. Because where they meet is about where the SAM should be. I call this method triangulation, because I got the idea from VOR triangulation.

 

I then move my TGP to the intersection and try to find him. If I find him I make another markpoint, then run in on him. I get just outside his firing range and then hit the deck and look for approaches that will block his shot on me. And with my TGP and Mav cam slaved to that markpoint I'll never lose his location so all I have to do is fly in until I'm 6-4 miles out pop up and fire off my mav, then fly out. And remember to launch two mavs if it's a TOR because the TOR was build from the ground up to shoot down missiles.

[Nu-NRG]

Guys, how do you kill a SAM that is part of IADS with A-10C?

 

In a proper scenario that is what everone should be asking them self.

[Cik]

depress mic switch

 

"falcon 2-1, hog 2-1 mud 6 bulls xxx xxx"

 

"falcon 2-1 in"

 

"magnum"

 

wait a minute or two

 

realistically you don't, it's not your job and all of this faffing about with taking out SA-10 etc with A-10 is pretty silly

[David OC]

Guys, how do you kill a SAM that is part of IADS with A-10C?

 

In a proper scenario that is what everone should be asking them self.

 

depress mic switch

 

"falcon 2-1, hog 2-1 mud 6 bulls xxx xxx"

 

"falcon 2-1 in"

 

"magnum"

 

wait a minute or two

 

realistically you don't, it's not your job and all of this faffing about with taking out SA-10 etc with A-10 is pretty silly

 

Yes of course you would not go up against any known SAM site with the A10 unless it was well hidden and had no choice.

 

This is fun, setup a trigger so when you approach an area the SAM network goes quiet (AI OFF) You know there there out there roughly but hidden. This is scary stuff and would be very IRL and how it would have been in Europe. Use another trigger to turn them on (AI trigger on) when in lethal range to multiple Tor and Tunguska's!

 

Sure SEAD would have been up but so would there CAP and if there not broadcasting you cannot see them hidden. Someone needs to be bait!:cry:

 

Typically, a battery of four Tor vehicles

Tor vehicles is accompanied by the mobile Polyana-D4 which provides automatically interaction with the SA-15,17,19,23 (S-300V, Buk, Tor, Tunguska), (integrates all functions of several different systems into a single whole + Various Air Force aircraft + direct transfer of target designation)

 

So when you get close and set off the next trigger bring in more Su27's to go after the SEAD / CAP flights etc. The DCS NTTR A-10C Red Flag Campaign is a fairly good example for practice. The Caucasus region makes it easy to hide multiple SAMS and turn them off until close.:cry:

[Gliptal]

Guys, how do you kill a SAM that is part of IADS with A-10C?

 

In a proper scenario that is what everone should be asking them self.

You don't. A proper IADS is a tough nut to break even for dedicated SEAD packages. That's why Tomahawks often open air campaigns, and flocks of mini-UAVs are being considered as saturation.

[Kippy]

Guys, how do you kill a SAM that is part of IADS with A-10C?

 

In a proper scenario that is what everone should be asking them self.

 

depress mic switch

 

"falcon 2-1, hog 2-1 mud 6 bulls xxx xxx"

 

"falcon 2-1 in"

 

"magnum"

 

wait a minute or two

 

realistically you don't, it's not your job and all of this faffing about with taking out SA-10 etc with A-10 is pretty silly

 

You don't. A proper IADS is a tough nut to break even for dedicated SEAD packages. That's why Tomahawks often open air campaigns, and flocks of mini-UAVs are being considered as saturation.

 

 

 

Do any of these OP's question? No.

 

Useless posts. Almost as useless as mine here. I shouldn't even have to point this out.

Edited December 11, 2016 by Kippy

[Gliptal]

I would say that explanations on why you wouldn't engage a SAM in the first place counts as an answer. Otherwise nobody would ever learn anything.

[Cik]

I would say that explanations on why you wouldn't engage a SAM in the first place counts as an answer. Otherwise nobody would ever learn anything.

 

"hey guys, how do i land at 20 knots in the A-10"

 

"don't, it's too slow"

 

"WOW GUYS YOU DIDN'T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION!"

[fixen]

Do any of these OP's question? No.

 

Useless posts. Almost as useless as mine here. I shouldn't even have to point this out.

 

*They where answering the question about the long range SAM, which you have failed to see with my post aswell*

 

They answer it perfectly fine. When someone asks how they can jump of a skyscraper naked and survive, people will tell you that you can't. I can tell them to flap their arms really fast, but we all know that's not really going to help, now is it.

 

There are some things you can do to maybe get the kill on a sa-10 with a a-10, but that has to do with luck and positioning of the sa-10 (for example close to a mountain) and exploiting the dumb ai and bad mission making. The main answer about how to attack a SAM site with the a-10 was already answered. The follow-up question about long-range SAM's has been answered aswell, with the remark that you better not do it. You apparently get offended easily, while I think most of us don't see the answers as offending at all.

Edited December 11, 2016 by fixen

[Kippy]

Saying that "Oh the A-10 doesn't do that..."

 

This is a simulator, not real life. The OP can do whatever he wants with the A-10C. If he wants to load it to the brim with AIM-54s, there are mods for that and he's perfectly entitled to. I think I'm going to coin a term for this, I will forever fear the DCS Fun Police.

[Gliptal]

Nobody told him to mot try. I personally simply gave my insight on why an A-10C wouldn't be employed against a proper IADS. Others already answered the original question, and the discussion went on from there.

 

Nobody wants to limit how you're using the sim, but learning the differences with real life employment is part of the sim experience for a lot of people.

[fixen]

He specifically asked how long range SAM engagement is done in real life (looks like he wants to make a realistic approach). We answered that the a-10 does not do it and told him how it is done in real life (not with the a-10). If he would then ask how he might be able to do it in the sim using the a-10 I would gladly give some pointers on how he might be able to do it. But even in the sim it is quite difficult to do, let alone real life, like we all told him.

 

Anyway, this discussion is not necessary at all. Instead of getting upset at us, you could have just asked how we would do it in the sim. Or you could tell him, because I think you are a capable a-10 pilot. Again, we were not trying to be rude, but we are just setting expectations, that the a-10 might not be to suitable for the job.

Edited December 11, 2016 by fixen

[feefifofum]

Kippy, you may have good intentions but you're way out of line here.

 

There are several viable tactics for engaging long SAMs, when necessary, which have been discussed; pop up attacks, terrain masking, weapons with high standoff ranges.

 

OP is not asking "how do I mod the A10 to carry Phoenix missiles?" he is asking "how would an A-10 engage a long range SAM system IN THE REAL WORLD" and as many have said, the answer is, in the real world, the A-10s are not SEAD birds.

[The Legman]

He specifically asked how long range SAM engagement is done in real life (looks like he wants to make a realistic approach). We answered that the a-10 does not do it and told him how it is done in real life (not with the a-10). If he would then ask how he might be able to do it in the sim using the a-10 I would gladly give some pointers on how he might be able to do it. But even in the sim it is quite difficult to do, let alone real life, like we all told him.

 

Anyway, this discussion is not necessary at all. Instead of getting upset at us, you could have just asked how we would do it in the sim. Or you could tell him, because I think you are a capable a-10 pilot. Again, we were not trying to be rude, but we are just setting expectations, that the a-10 might not be to suitable for the job.

 

Exactly. DEAD/SEAD flights are there for this purpose. Prowlers, Growlers, Falcons, etc either by ECM or with HARM will sanitize before you deploy units that might be in danger.

 

Bad intel or surprises could lead to, as it happens in campaigns that you face a surprise SAM site, but then you get some weapons.

 

If you want to take a SA-10 well, good luck. It's doable. You can go very low level with the terrain and get rid of them as they won't be able to lock you if you are at about 100 ft AGL or so. But this is a fun thing to do in game, but not very realistic.

 

Our plane is not Steven Seagal in a movie. It would be part of a big war scenery where squads have a purpose and you, as CAS, have to do your part. Some of the campaigns do this well, with all the current limitations of the AI etc. But your A-10 would never be near aircraft that can fire a missile against you except a very strange surprise. Because to have CAS on the ground you would also have air superiority on the sky, and so on.

[David OC]

Exactly. DEAD/SEAD flights are there for this purpose. Prowlers, Growlers, Falcons, etc either by ECM or with HARM will sanitize before you deploy units that might be in danger.

 

Bad intel or surprises could lead to, as it happens in campaigns that you face a surprise SAM site, but then you get some weapons.

 

If you want to take a SA-10 well, good luck. It's doable. You can go very low level with the terrain and get rid of them as they won't be able to lock you if you are at about 100 ft AGL or so. But this is a fun thing to do in game, but not very realistic.

 

Our plane is not Steven Seagal in a movie. It would be part of a big war scenery where squads have a purpose and you, as CAS, have to do your part. Some of the campaigns do this well, with all the current limitations of the AI etc. But your A-10 would never be near aircraft that can fire a missile against you except a very strange surprise. Because to have CAS on the ground you would also have air superiority on the sky, and so on.

 

How the A10 is use today I would agree with you about having air superiority. In Europe it would be a different story and that was the reason the A10 was built and why it was built so tough, it's also fun to setup a mission like this.

 

You would have been low flying and sneaking around while SEAD and Fighter CAPs where up.

Like the A-10C 16-2 Red Flag Campaign

 

Now imagine this in the Europe environment or the Caucasus region where you can hide plenty of MANPADS and 23mm guns in tree lines, perhaps the odd Tunguska! with its target tracking radar off. This is exactly what the A10 was built to face close up. Makes you get your head out the window and off the MFDs.

 

Tactics written for the A10 LOMAC days, based on real world Tactics.

Hog Basics: RAF Bentwaters Tactics Guide

So…for high threat, low altitude ops…plan on navigating at about 300’ and 300kias…in the attack itself, you can drop down to a lower altitude as conditions permit and push it up to max speed (but don’t hold your breath!). Think 300/300 and you’ll be OK!

 

My A10 is in a Walker, Texas Ranger movie called Trial by Fire. Brought to you and directed by the GAU-8 Avenger

Edited December 13, 2016 by David OC

[The Legman]

Now imagine this in the Europe environment or the Caucasus region where you can hide plenty of MANPADS and 23mm guns in tree lines, perhaps the odd Tunguska! with its target tracking radar off. This is exactly what the A10 was built to face close up.

 

So, bad intel risking planes. In the first Gulf War the A-10s took down a good number of anti air defences.

 

When it was designed, it was supposed that all the A-10 fleet would be lost in a few weeks of combat. It proved to be much more worthy and since then, it's not like you are tossing the Warthog as a bait.

 

Tunguskas, manpads, okay. But long range AAA? No way. That's why you got Growlers, HARMs etc.