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Wish List: New airfields with no aprons. Can't start cold.


Tucano_uy

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I think it would be great to be able to place aircraft where ever I like, the same as can be done with a helicopter. The OP would be covered with this suggestion as he would be able to place his warbirds exactly how he imagined. It opens all sorts of possibilities, For example when the Viggen is released, my squadron will be doing landings on roads. It would be great if we could set a farp by a road, and line a few Viggens up strategically, take off, blow stuff up, return, refuel and rearm, and so on.

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I think it would be great to be able to place aircraft where ever I like, the same as can be done with a helicopter. The OP would be covered with this suggestion as he would be able to place his warbirds exactly how he imagined. It opens all sorts of possibilities, For example when the Viggen is released, my squadron will be doing landings on roads. It would be great if we could set a farp by a road, and line a few Viggens up strategically, take off, blow stuff up, return, refuel and rearm, and so on.

Oh no.

I have a feeling this comment could get a visit from the realism police anytime :)

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If you want to use it with WW2 aircraft (which incidentally do not require hard standing in order to operate), then you are using a region of the earth that wasn't really involved in WW2 for a start, and as WW2 aircraft were never operated from 2016 GA strips, I don't exactly see where your argument is going.

 

 

I guess I can :doh: too.

 

C'mon, this is getting silly... Maybe some of us do not intend to create an alternative-history-WWII-on-Nevada-desert scenarios, but something very plausible and happening every year... like an airshow scenario for example? Am I not allowed to put a modern, demiltarized TF-51 on the strip then, because You get miffed by that idea?

 

"Never operated". Yep, whatever. I guess I must've imagined all the "air-picnics" organized near Warsaw years ago, when I watched various warbirds, from Mustang, Spit & Hurri up to a Dakota, Mitchell and Catalina, operating from a lousy, 800x30 m GA grass strip near Góraszka town, with no proper facilities whatsoever apart from a single hangar. Obviously no apron either. Still don't know how the hell pilots of the big birds managed to takeoff and land there. I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it.

 

Compared to that, Mina with it's almost 1400 m dirt strip is almost a full-blown airbase :D.

 

If there are some code limitations, which prevent airports/strips without aprons to be fully utilized by fixed wing a/c in current version of DCS, then fine, I can understand it, but don't pull some questionable-logic arguments out of nowhere to justify that map functionality issue.

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Well, there is always the facility in the pipeline which allows you to place grass strips anywhere on a map.

 

My point was, that Mina is not worth all the extra coding work that would be required to allow a VERY SMALL sector of the community to place an aircraft of any kind there.

 

What exactly is the issue with choosing an alternative - fully functional airstrip instead? Or would you rather ED dropped everything like merging the two maps into 2.5, and instead turned their attention to this obviously EXTREMELY urgent update.

 

My point about WW2 was that in wartime, NTTR was a backwater thousands of miles from Europe, and also rather removed from the Pacific theatre of operations. So, as things go (unless of course your bag is airshows) why do we need to go to the trouble of making an insignificant little GA airstrip functional for a few awkward people who cannot use any other airstrip that actually does have an apron, and which you can actually place aircraft on so you can do a cold start.

 

Simply put, it is definitely not a priority, not relevant, and even if the facility was introduced, who the hell would bother using it?

 

Did I miss anything? Can we now simply agree to disagree, and end this absurd nonsense? Or do you really think you are the only ones with a relevant opinion, and that browbeating everyone else into submission is the only way to prove your point here?

 

No matter what arguments you come up with, your request is utterly irrelevant in the big picture. Use a different airstrip - one with an apron, where you can actually take off from cold and dark! And if you want to organise an airshow for all your buddies, get them to drive a few miles to the next airstrip. If you want to fight WW2 stuff, just hang on a few more weeks for the Normandy map. Problem solved!

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My point was, that Mina is not worth all the extra coding work that would be required to allow a VERY SMALL sector of the community to place an aircraft of any kind there.

 

Then why go to all the trouble of doing extra coding work and art work to put it into the map in the first place if people are unlikely to use it? Request from OP does not seem unreasonable.

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I agree, how people enjoy the game /sim is up to them. As we don't have access to the map tools we don't know if it's a difficult or time consuming process or just a quick cut and paste. Either way the wish is on the list so it's up to ED to decide If it's worth implementing. As it's still in alpha I think there is a good chance we will see some extra spots open up or a place anywhere feature implemented at some point.

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I disagree with the feature request. Developers time should be spend on more important (already planned) features for the map and modules/DLCs.

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Rather than adding a non-existent apron, planes should be able to be placed anywhere, like the choppers. Two birds with one stone.

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Seriously guys.

 

ED put it there, somebody sat for hours in front of a computer to give us those small fields. And you're going all pedantic about real life. What I am asking is to define whatever point as a parking place. Simple as that.

 

Being that pedantic about realism is useless. Get your minds out of the box and have fun. Have you never put a couple of tanks in the decomissioned crossed runways near batumi to blow them up? Do you ever care that it is not a mombing range? Come on...

 

This sim is about reality, whether you like it or not. A sim, of this magnitude is not about making it "fun", fun can be found in many things about it`s realism, like flying physics. But the main point is to keep it real, to possible extent. Visit ED main product page, and see what DCS emphasises is their main goal. (DCS as in ED and 3rd parties)

 

If you want WWII aircraft, then those can take off from ground, no need to use paved runways. You can taxi on ground as well.

 

Being that pedantic about realism is useless.

 

I`ve been pendantic about realism since I first flew Lomac, why do you feel the need to play it down, in favor of your interest in "fun"? Maybe I should say, go play a game, instead of wanting to change a simulator into one, doesn`t it sound like a better idea?! If it was useless, we wouldn`t be where we are today.

 

If you are absolutely perverse about that once specific airfield, then tell you what. Use it for helicopters only, they don`t mind whether paved or dirt... And in the emergency of things, if I can land a M2000C (fastest landing jet in DCS) without parachute, and be able to turn around, then I don`t see why you wouldn`t in some other aircraft. Funky way to do things, but you can rearm there as well.


Edited by zerO_crash

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Rather than adding a non-existent apron, planes should be able to be placed anywhere, like the choppers. Two birds with one stone.

 

+1

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Rather than adding a non-existent apron, planes should be able to be placed anywhere, like the choppers. Two birds with one stone.

+1

 

And +1 for planes with shields for engine intakes :P

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So you're saying an F-15C should be capable of taking off from a wheat field? An A-10C can operate from a forest? Why ever was the Harrier jump jet invented? Whatever you do, don't tell anyone this is possible or fighting wars will get very difficult!

 

On the other hand, why not just do the sensible thing, and fly from proper facilities, as nature intended?

 

Is that a bit too complicated for you?

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So you're saying an F-15C should be capable of taking off from a wheat field? An A-10C can operate from a forest? Why ever was the Harrier jump jet invented? Whatever you do, don't tell anyone this is possible or fighting wars will get very difficult!

 

On the other hand, why not just do the sensible thing, and fly from proper facilities, as nature intended?

 

Is that a bit too complicated for you?

 

Maybe not that extreme, but it would be nice to be able to set up a FARP on say a stretch of highway somewhere. The grass airbase will go a long way to simulating the expeditionary airbase concept. But it would still be cool to just be able to place a fuel and ammo truck and BAM! FARP.

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This sim is about reality, whether you like it or not. A sim, of this magnitude is not about making it "fun", fun can be found in many things about it`s realism, like flying physics. But the main point is to keep it real, to possible extent. Visit ED main product page, and see what DCS emphasises is their main goal. (DCS as in ED and 3rd parties)

 

Did you read the part where it says that DCS is a "Sandbox Simulation" ?

 

 

 

I`ve been pendantic about realism since I first flew Lomac
ERR WHAT???!!! :doh:

 

 

 

why do you feel the need to play it down, in favor of your interest in "fun"? Maybe I should say, go play a game, instead of wanting to change a simulator into one, doesn`t it sound like a better idea?! If it was useless, we wouldn`t be where we are today.

 

Actually the Russian birds like the MiG-29 are quite capable of operating from dirt strips, and so is the A-10.

 

 

I am all for the idea of adding fake ramp with parking spots for the small airfields like Mina whether it be for P-51s or F-15s.

 

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Did you read the part where it says that DCS is a "Sandbox Simulation" ?

 

 

 

ERR WHAT???!!! :doh:

 

 

 

 

 

Actually the Russian birds like the MiG-29 are quite capable of operating from dirt strips, and so is the A-10.

 

 

I am all for the idea of adding fake ramp with parking spots for the small airfields like Mina whether it be for P-51s or F-15s.

 

S!

 

I do not really understand your comments. They could at least try to convey something sensible...

 

What`s "ERR WHAT???!!!" supposed to mean? Tip: Adding more than one exclamation- or question-mark is kind of pointless, doesn`t strengthen the meaning... :doh:

 

Yes I did read what he wrote, but it seems to me as if his understanding of Simulation is very different from that of ED`s vision, and as such people involved (read customers). He wants a mix, of some simulation there, and some "fun" elsewhere. All I am trying to make him understand is that ED is not an indie dev that will go the way community decides, just cause we want it. They make far more money of military contracts, we are barely anything of their income. We should be happy they even bother, otherwise you`d have BMS as the only choice. In addition, it seems like a majority agree with all-out realism, otherwise the community and interest in DCS would be smaller.

 

Where did I say that MiG-29 (every Russian bird we have in DCS is capable of it, not only MiG-29) or A10 isn`t capable of that? Read, the difference between dirt strips, and unprepared runways. We are talking about taxing onto a dirt spot, and taking off from a paved runway. Who talks about taking off dirt runways?

 

Furthermore, currently in DCS, nothing newer than cold war will let you do taxing on Dirt. That`s just how it is until 2.5 I suppose, maybe even after it`s release.


Edited by zerO_crash

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Sorry, but don't you think that this small airports at the edge of a nowhere are growing into a too big problem? C’mon, there are plenty of much bigger airports right now at Nevada. Is really adding the aprons to those small airports would be a deal changer and suddenly would open a million of new possibilities for mission designers? Or are there another features that should got a higher priority?

Nevada was meant to be a training map. Consider that the Normandy is just across the corner, there is going to be possibility to place the grass airfields using mission editor as also in longer perspective we're going to get the Strait of Hormuz.

This should be more than enough also to satisfy "sandbox", "fun" approach - just place the grass strips in the dessert and scramble from them with WWII fighters to air quake over Las Vegas skyscrapers :thumbup:

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:) This has been an interesting read. I'm clearly bored at work and was thinking that, as a local resident, I might want to fly my free TF-51D out of Mina. This is a wish list, after all...


Edited by Ironhand

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Mina has 3 apron spaces. In DCS... in real life it seems it's different:

 

https://www.google.fr/maps/@38.3602918,-118.0932454,2404a,20y,40.87t/data=!3m1!1e3

 

http://www.sunrisevalley.com/32mina.htm

 

 

So I guess OP request is not only valid but with good chances of being fulfilled in the future.

 

edit

 

This post is FUBAR as I confused Mina with Beatty.

 

Still Mina is a dirt strip so being asphalted in DCS maybe it could be expanded a bit with some spawn places to the side of the airstrip..


Edited by zaelu

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Good idea, doesn't take away any realism since you're not asking for a physical apron to be added, just places at the airfield on the ground where planes can start. Here's an idea... Though it may have some complications for some aircraft is to have a start from ground feature like we already have with helicopters, but for fixed wing aircraft as well... (I'm pretty sure it's been suggested somewhere along the way...).

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So you're saying an F-15C should be capable of taking off from a wheat field? An A-10C can operate from a forest? Why ever was the Harrier jump jet invented? Whatever you do, don't tell anyone this is possible or fighting wars will get very difficult!

 

On the other hand, why not just do the sensible thing, and fly from proper facilities, as nature intended?

 

Is that a bit too complicated for you?

 

"as nature intended", and "Is that a bit too complicated for you?" seriously? You have taken people suggestions and put an extreme twist on what they have written. If users wish to use their imagination then they should not be criticised for doing so in the manner your posts come across.

 

While your points are valid, I find the delivery of your answers to be offensive. I'm sure you're a nice person in real life, just saying:thumbup:.

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I started this thread in a friendly tone, but the longer it goes on the more impatient I have become, so I apologise for that.

 

One more thought crossed my mind. If you have your way, and allow aircraft to take off and land anywhere, then that will surely mean if you run off the runway there would be no effect. Are you quite sure de-skilling the most critical phases of flight is a good idea?

 

Frankly I find that prospect quite depressing!

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I started this thread in a friendly tone, but the longer it goes on the more impatient I have become, so I apologise for that.

 

One more thought crossed my mind. If you have your way, and allow aircraft to take off and land anywhere, then that will surely mean if you run off the runway there would be no effect. Are you quite sure de-skilling the most critical phases of flight is a good idea?

 

Frankly I find that prospect quite depressing!

 

Delivered much better thank you :thumbup:

 

You again have a valid point.

 

Personally if I placed an F-15c on dirt I would expect it to stick solid in the dirt, if I placed it on a road, or bunched up on an solid apron with a load of other aircraft, I would like it to have the functionality to taxi and take off (confined to whether or not I have the skill to do so). Like I said before on page 3 of this thread, Viggens are allegedly coming.

 

I fly serious in single player. I fly serious with the display group I fly with, but often the team I am with like to try the dynamics of flight out in unusual ways, for instance who has not tried to land a non carrier plane on an aircraft carrier? Who here has turned the wind up to full speed and tried STOL? I would not like to see the realism taken away, but I would like to have the flexibility be able to create absurd scenarios along with the realistic fictional one.

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