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FM in 1.5.5


BadHabit

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The only thing I've got some issue with is holding the stick full aft after departure and continuing to hold it fully back since this is not something anyone would ever do deliberately. I'm not sure we can model the inside of departed flight very well but if its ok up to the stall and ok in recovery modelling then theres not really much to be concerned about. The blackout is an ED thing where sudden G force contributes to instantaneous blackout and you can see it in a variety of situations. It not that reliable a system for blacking out. Other devs have also stated that departed flight or flight at the extremes of the envelope are prohibitively hard to model and generally they aim to model on main parts of performance envelopes for testing.

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@zaelu

Comparing the F-16 and the MiG-21 doesn't make much sense because they are completely different, even without the FBW the F-16 would differ too much to compare it with the MiG 21.

 

How about that for departure? (F/A-18 ) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZNaQuUGluk

 

Well, OP asked for some jet in general iirc. I'm sure F16 resembles more a Mig21 than a Cessna 172 would :) . It's all I could find with a quick search. I see you found one with an F18. Both show that such violence may ensue in an upset jetfighter. What I wanted to add was that in a simulation such "departures" might be very difficult to model, for example BadHabit's youtube recording showed the Afterburner light and happy all the time the plane did its thing. I'm doubtfull nothing would happen with the engine in those circumstances and if it hicks then flight dynamic would be again affected. And many other details can complicate this simulation in such extremes beyond the purpose of the DCS.


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An interesting video with tailspin on MiG 21.

 

 

https://youtu.be/F3VmprqrZ34?t=176

 

The.rolling looks similar to what we have in the Sim during departed flight but not as violent. LN was definitely on the right track when they added the roll departures.

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Did some testing with sustained turn rates. Here's the result.

spSRtjX.png

 

I couldn't bleed speed below 300kts as I had reached maximum AoA at that point.

 

Raw data points from the test flight.

 

00172.423 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: Counter, Alt(m), GS(km/h), GS(Mach), Turn Rate(deg/s)

00211.696 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 0 59 1062 0.868 15.6

00217.700 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 1 52 1061 0.867 15.1

00222.837 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 2 39 1063 0.869 15.1

00227.992 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 3 29 1063 0.869 15.2

00255.181 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 4 50 974 0.796 16.5

00262.883 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 5 70 974 0.796 15.8

00268.088 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 6 59 975 0.797 16.0

00273.284 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 7 41 978 0.799 15.9

00300.698 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 8 91 883 0.722 16.7

00308.491 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 9 93 881 0.720 16.3

00327.091 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 10 135 885 0.724 16.2

00370.801 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 11 78 794 0.649 16.5

00375.985 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 12 78 792 0.647 16.8

00406.385 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 13 66 691 0.565 17.1

00411.600 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 14 50 690 0.564 17.3

00416.787 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 15 44 690 0.564 16.9

00470.506 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 16 89 566 0.463 17.5

00475.705 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 17 82 565 0.462 17.9

00480.920 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 18 72 566 0.463 18.1

00501.755 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 19 66 607 0.496 17.8

00506.954 INFO SCRIPTING: TR: 20 71 606 0.495 17.3

 

 

 

undefined.png

Sustained turn rate test flight bug report.miz

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So what do You guys think of a new FM in latest update for 1.5.5? I didn't even expect there would be any adjustments, as there was nothing official on the subject either in patch changelog or here on forum.

 

There were some positive changes made, however, as I've just found out during a sightseeing flight in winter map conditions. The mysterious roll instability affected by ammo load is still there, BUT:

a) dramatic G drop do zero values in deep stall seems to be gone (the stall is a bit more progressive) and thus gone are the dreaded instant engine flameouts caused by it;

b) asymmetric departure in high G turns has been changed as well. Gone is the "paper kite in the thunderstorm" behaviour, now the plane feels like a few tons of aluminium again and it goes into roll oscillations of varying amplitude.

 

So it seems to be behaving closer to description in the manual now and I'm happy about it. If only we could know how Novak feels about the self-roll issue...

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Yeah can say so now. But still without logs its just guessing and filtering out placebo effects. I will always enjoy that airframe as much as they brake it :-P maybe it overperforms maybe it underperforms its a joy to fly and now once again to land B-) cant wait to see what other suprises the next patch will bring :-!

 

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Edited by BadHabit

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OK! I don't have a clue what has changed or I am on a placebo effect here, but since tha last hour update I have no words! GJ LN!!! This is my mig once again! Still I have to say you biggest bug is your comms with us :P BYE!

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Yes man as u said the newest one. 1.5.5 Update 2

 

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Horizontal turn 360° (course 300 to 300) ~700km/h.

 

F-5E trapezoidal wing with mechanization - 37 s.

 

M-2000C delta wing with mechanization - 27 s.

 

MiG-21 two balalaikas + LS shit AFM - 26 s.

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In table:

Mass = 7500 kg.

H = 2 km.

Speed = 700km/h (~194 m/s) => turn radius ~ 1200 m => turn time = 2*3.14*1200 / 194 = 38,8 s.

 

In game:

Mass ~ 8600 kg (100% fuel).

H ~ 2 km.

Speed ~ 700km/h (~194 m/s)

turn time = 26 s.

Why?

2005831868_3.MiG-21bisturnradius1000m.thumb.gif.a37d4929f9a9e2f5cd663b06a961fd6d.gif

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And had real life docs and tables do you have to compare, for us that don't really get this stuff quick? what is the migs turn radious per sec irl?

 

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He actually wrote the comparison between expected result from chart and in-game in his second post.

He'd have expected 38,8s for a full turn @700kph, 2km high , from the chart. He gets 26s in-game. more than 10s faster than expected.

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Ok sorry for the miss. However table vs game table is 1100kg lighter. Is the turn radious 1200 used in game? g forces? aoa?

 

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Horizontal turn 360° (course 300 to 300) ~700km/h.

 

F-5E trapezoidal wing with mechanization - 37 s.

 

M-2000C delta wing with mechanization - 27 s.

 

MiG-21 two balalaikas + LS shit AFM - 26 s.

 

You gained 700ft in altitude in the F-5 and lost about 800ft in the MiG though...

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I´m not the most precise pilot in the world but i´ve tested this myself because y love the Mig-21 and in my opinion the FM is wrong, not only because its not matching the real tables, but also because you can feel and see that something is not working like it should.

 

From my tacview:

 

2 R-3S - 7500 Kg - 2000 metres. I don´t know if the real tables are in IAS, TAS o GS so i´ve decided to keep 700 IAS.

 

My results:

 

G: 5-6

 

Turn Radius: 700-900 meters.

 

Turn rate: 11º-12º sc

 

Time for a 360º: 27 seconds.

 

Yes i know it´s not the perfect circle, but from the table it must be something around 32 sc. So 5 seconds less is A LOT:

 

gfWrjNF.gif

Mig-21 TEST.rar

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Another Test at 2000 meters, Mach 0.75, Afterburner on like the charts.

 

In DCS 25 seconds.

 

Tables: Around 32 seconds.

 

7 seconds less in a sustained turn.

 

I have 2 seconds less than the same table at the same speed but at 1000 meters more ( 27 seconds said that table at 1000 meters.)

 

So something is wrong.

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