Synthetic Runway

[Slydog486]

I've searched through everything I can, and I still haven't been able to figure this out... It seems like everyone who wanted to use the synthetic runway asked about it in early 2015, but now it's been an entire year and I'd like to figure out what the heck is going on... Has the INS system been updated enough to where we can create the waypoint necessary to use the synthetic runway? If so, does anyone know how to do it? I've looked in the manual with no such luck, but if someone knows about it, please let me know.

 

Thanks all!

[Fri13]

What is "synthetic" in this case?

 

You mean the HUD virtual one when landing but positioned to an ground or roads for dirtstrips?

[Slydog486]

The Synthetic Runway is the runway overlay on the HUD, yes. From what I've read, you must have a "landing waypoint" set up to use it, but certainly that isn't a requirement in the real Mirage. How do you set it up from in-cockpit?

[Rlaxoxo]

The Synthetic Runway is the runway overlay on the HUD, yes. From what I've read, you must have a "landing waypoint" set up to use it, but certainly that isn't a requirement in the real Mirage. How do you set it up from in-cockpit?

 

It is a requirement in current DCS Mirage and you can't set up the Landing waypoints from the cockpit you need to have it from the Mission Editor.

 

I asked Zeus if we will be able to have an Option to set it up from the cockpit and she said that we will and we will have to wait a bit since there are other stuff to work on first.

It's been a while tho I reckon 2 months at least.

[myHelljumper]

So zeus is a GIRL !!??? :D

[Slydog486]

It is a requirement in current DCS Mirage and you can't set up the Landing waypoints from the cockpit you need to have it from the Mission Editor.

 

I asked Zeus if we will be able to have an Option to set it up from the cockpit and she said that we will and we will have to wait a bit since there are other stuff to work on first.

It's been a while tho I reckon 2 months at least.

 

Thanks for the quick reply! Since it was 2 months ago, do you think there's a chance we'll get the functionality soon?

[Fri13]

The Synthetic Runway is the runway overlay on the HUD, yes. From what I've read, you must have a "landing waypoint" set up to use it, but certainly that isn't a requirement in the real Mirage. How do you set it up from in-cockpit?

 

Ah.... I haven't set any landing waypoints in for landing while flying Mirage as I am still training the radar operations and flight characteristics of missiles and BVR merges.

 

I have been flying NTTR with just two waypoints, the air starting point (SP) and then a waypoint toward enemy at trigger zone (triggered to spawn 50km from trigger zone).

 

And once a while back (1.5.4 version) I decided to land and didn't have a clue how to do it than just know that to get navigation mode the weapons master needs to be disabled. And then I noticed that PPA had a center button with something related to landing or so. And then I only did fly based the cue on HUD (didn't have any knowledge is it correct) and suddenly I had something on HUD that was like flight path markings (didn't know anything about that, just flying first time with it) and managed easily get to airfield glide slope and saw the "synthetic runway" on HUD and got perfect landing.

 

I must say I was impressed about the system for the western one, still maintaining opinion that Russian way is much better and easier.

 

But if the synthetic runway requires something in mission editor, I have no knowledge of that.

 

Now I think that navigation system has the runways in the system memory and it will recall automatically the closest one and will guide you there if you don't have anything programmed/selected.

[myHelljumper]

Now I think that navigation system has the runways in the system memory and it will recall automatically the closest one and will guide you there if you don't have anything programmed/selected.

 

In the 2000 ? Nothing like that, for the synthetic runway you have to have a landing waypoint done with the editor.

[Fri13]

In the 2000 ? Nothing like that, for the synthetic runway you have to have a landing waypoint done with the editor.

 

I didn't have one.

 

This was the mission with just two points, starting and destination. No landing.

 

[Valium]

If you want to have syntetic runway you have to:

1) choose one of airports in mission editor and set as a final point ( just check e.g. Batumi and set ' landing ' )

 

During flight:

1) choose the last waypoint

2) press APP button on your PCA

3) check what e.g. Batumi has got INS number and set it:

- it will be 110.30 but I don't remember

- write it to INS next to TACAN

- and the MUST IMPORTANT, don't forget to change from A to M !!!

[Valium]

And here's something about it:

[myHelljumper]

@Fri13

 

Then you should not have any synthetic runway, if you got one it's a bug as a waypoint is needed to get it.

[Fri13]

@Fri13

 

Then you should not have any synthetic runway, if you got one it's a bug as a waypoint is needed to get it.

 

I think it has been a bug as I wasn't required to do anything those steps the above one says.

 

All what I did was to disable master arm to get navigation system, then press the APP and I had all the guidance elements and HUD showed the synthetic runway.

 

As I said, I still don't have a idea what all kind things you need to do to get aircraft to go landing. I don't even know how to change waypoints or where they really are :D

I have not touched to anything else than weapons panels and radar.

 

That's reason why I guessed that the flight computer would have in a memory all the airfields and it would know what is the closest one and guide there, but that seems not to be the case so it can't be anything else than a bug. As I had no more than just this one mission at the time.

I haven't touched DCS 2.0 since the 1.5.5 came out as I have been flying Hawk to train landings and maneuvers as I am waiting the Mirage to get the rocket pipper fixed.

[Davee]

If you want to have syntetic runway you have to:

1) choose one of airports in mission editor and set as a final point ( just check e.g. Batumi and set ' landing ' )

 

During flight:

1) choose the last waypoint

2) press APP button on your PCA

3) check what e.g. Batumi has got INS number and set it:

- it will be 110.30 but I don't remember

- write it to INS next to TACAN

- and the MUST IMPORTANT, don't forget to change from A to M !!!

 

 

and . . . . be within 10 miles of the airfield for it to show.

[VTJS17_Fire]

So zeus is a GIRL !!??? :D

That's the only information I get from his post, too. :lol:

[Steph-JJ]

Call him Hera :music_whistling:

[amalahama]

Sorry, but exactly how is synthetic runways enabled in the real aircraft? Is the runway information introduced in the INS? or it's automatically built from ILS signals?

 

Regards!

[myHelljumper]

Sorry, but exactly how is synthetic runways enabled in the real aircraft? Is the runway information introduced in the INS? or it's automatically built from ILS signals?

 

Regards!

 

Both, it use ILS and the INS runway heading and desired slope data.

[Spathiphyllum]

It is now approaching September in 2018. I am wondering if we still need to set a ridiculous "landing waypoint" in the mission editor in order to be able to use the Synthetic Runway feature? In the real Mirage one obviously does not need to do such thing - and since we are talking about a simulation, I am wondering why do we need such imaginary steps to achieve this? The full approach should be programmable from the cockpit, without a "mission editor" which is basically a toy and should not be required for the aircraft systems to function. If a "landing waypoint" (what a joke) is still a requirement in a so called simulation of the Mirage 2000 then it's kind of disappointing. In that case we have a fictional RAZBAM aircraft that is really cool but is definitely not a Mirage 2000.

Edited August 27, 2018 by Spathiphyllum

[baltic_dragon]

It is now approaching September in 2018. I am wondering if we still need to set a ridiculous "landing waypoint" in the mission editor in order to be able to use the Synthetic Runway feature? In the real Mirage one obviously does not need to do such thing - and since we are talking about a simulation, I am wondering why do we need such imaginary steps to achieve this? The full approach should be programmable from the cockpit, without a "mission editor" which is basically a toy and should not be required for the aircraft systems to function. If a "landing waypoint" (what a joke) is still a requirement in a so called simulation of the Mirage 2000 then it's kind of disappointing. In that case we have a fictional RAZBAM aircraft that is really cool but is definitely not a Mirage 2000.

 

Although I do agree that it would be cool to have that functionality in, I don’t understand the point about ME being used as „tool”and „imaginary” way to do things. It is quite the opposite. Things like flight plans, radio freq presets etc are created / uploaded by the crew on the ground and pilot never has to even touch it. Same goes for the glideslope for the home plate: it normally should be part of the flight plan and all the magic in inserting it would be done by the ground crew. So I find the way it is currently done - with regard to the ME - to be quite realistic.

[Spathiphyllum]

Then you clearly have no understanding of the very basics.

 

That is not how it's done in the real Mirage (and in real world in general) so no, it's not realistic.

 

Setting up an instrument approach is done in the flight deck and not on the ground. What if the pilot has to divert to an alternate airport due to unforeseen events? He can't just call for the "mission editor" and if the alternate airport requires a precision approach (due to weather or whatever reason) then he has to set up the approach himself, he must have all tools at hand. And he certainly does have all tools at hand in the real world, the approach is set up using the tools in the cockpit - but not in this imaginary RAZBAM aircraft that looks like a Mirage. No mission editor and other ridiculous supplementary stuff should be required. And since this is supposed to be a simulation, I expect things like shooting an approach to match that of the real world aircraft. And it's pretty much disappointing that RAZBAM hasn't added this functionality since product release meanwhile they keep announcing new stuff every other day, leaving the others half finished.

[Spathiphyllum]

See attachment from the RAZBAM Mirage 2000 manual itself.

 

To summarize, in order to set up the synthetic runway the pilot needs to

 

- ensure the INS is on

- the airport is the current fly-to waypoint

- runway data needs to be entered (glideslope angle and runway heading - and possibly runway elevation as well)

-localizer and glideslope already captured

 

The missing bit in this RAZBAM module is that we can't enter the required runway data. There should be a way to add runway data (for example in the HGS equipped Dash Q400 turboprop one needs to enter runway length, elevation and glideslope angle so I guess it's something fundamentally similar missing from this aircraft).

 

And yes, these all are set up by the operating pilot, in the air, before the approach, and not in any sort of mission editor or on the ground.

 

Even RAZBAM added that this is NOT FUNCTIONAL at the moment and currently the workaround is to add a "landing waypoint"in the ME. So this functionality is simply not developed and a laughable ME based step has to be carried out. The problem with this is that it's not how it works, thus it cannot be called a simulation. If you have to take a diversion airport, you can forget about the synthetic runway. Wrong.

[Shrike88]

Two years now and still no closure on this topic or fix? So chalk it up to never going to have this feature implemented correctly and able to use it Ad-hoc on any airfield

[cloudkake]

just thought i'd bump this a whole 4 and a half years later. I'm amazed this awesome feature was just left unfinished like this... Have Razbam just given up on this function?

 

EDIT:  is this finally it coming in the 2.7 update? 

Improved: Synthetic Runway created from ILS data and CP/PD info instead of mission editor

Edited April 5, 2021 by cloudkake

[Ramsay]

1 hour ago, cloudkake said:

I'm amazed this awesome feature was just left unfinished like this... Have Razbam just given up on this function?

 

EDIT:  is this finally it coming in the 2.7 update? 

Improved: Synthetic Runway created from ILS data and CP/PD info instead of mission editor

 

Yes, work is on going but AFAIK a major change in capability is due to be added in 2.7

 

 

Also coming is RD (Route Desirée / desired course), which is a bit like OBS in a Garmin and guides the plane to approach a waypoint on a particular course/azimuth.

 

In this WIP preview, a Batumi waypoint on runway 13 is given the final approach RD (125.6°T) on the PCN.

 

With RD enabled on the PCA the HUD cues guide to line up on final for RWY 13

 

 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Ramsay
Add RD info.