DCS: WW1?

[msalama]

The title says it all. Would buy all & everything developed for this theatre immediately myself. You?

 

PS. & namely, would just love to ride me auld Albie D.V just once more ;)

[probad]

i'd want to see better environment simulation before anything wwi

 

because environment is an even bigger consideration for those kites than for modern fighters, and then you can also do interesting things like wreck biplanes with jetwash.

[Rangi]

I am not sure how the developers would get accurate flight data for those old birds. Did they even make such tests back then?

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

I also think you should ask yourself if you think DCS level simulation is going to be worth the time and effort by a dev team in order to bring to life an aircraft that's basically a flying lawnmower with machine guns? Think about out: The sort of effort that has to go into even producing simple piston fighters from the 40s is pretty staggering.

 

They're neat as all heck, but would a SPAD really benefit from a clickable cockpit?

[probad]

it actually would take a lot of effort to accurate simulate a wwi aircraft, its just not the sort of system simulation that dcs has heavily invested in.

Edited November 4, 2016 by probad

[Kang]

While I guess there is something nice about the idea of having 'it all in one place', as in being able to go from WWI biplanes all the way to the latest space-age fighter jets, I doubt this is a good idea.

Not only is there the problem FishbedL pointed out of deciding whether it's really worth the effort, it's also starting yet another theatre altogether. At least in my opinion one problem in DCS is how the different modules are rather varied and that's good, of course, but it also makes the 'World' in DCS World very patchwork-like. We hardly have modules that would fit in a joint timeframe. It might be advantageous to first populate a few of the theatres we have a little more densely.

[Cowboy10uk]

Oh god how I wish this would happen, sadly I very much doubt it. It's a niche market within a niche market, I just don't think it would be cost effective for them to do it.

 

In the mean time I guess I'll stick with Rise of Flight.

 

Cowboy10uk

[firmek]

Simply no, for many reasons:

- already mentioned lack of data

- close to zero possibility confronting the model with the real life plane

- opening yet another work-stream, it's better to focus on providing complete scenarios - units, maps and then aircrafts

- there are other much more interesting periods that are sparsely addressed - WWII, 1'st, 2'nd, 3'd gen

- small customer base - niche in a niche

- small community base, not enough momentum to keep people creating content like missions, campaigns, setting up servers and having players populating them

- can get boring in relatively short amount of time

- other titles already on the market

[Kev2go]

While I guess there is something nice about the idea of having 'it all in one place', as in being able to go from WWI biplanes all the way to the latest space-age fighter jets, I doubt this is a good idea.

Not only is there the problem FishbedL pointed out of deciding whether it's really worth the effort, it's also starting yet another theatre altogether. At least in my opinion one problem in DCS is how the different modules are rather varied and that's good, of course, but it also makes the 'World' in DCS World very patchwork-like. We hardly have modules that would fit in a joint timeframe. It might be advantageous to first populate a few of the theatres we have a little more densely.

 

some people just like flying fighters irregardless what maps its in.

 

i know some people will love to fly modern fighter in Europe 1944, just for the heck of it. A" Final Countdown" thing but in Europe

 

. avioincs are even simpler than whats found on ww2 aircraft, so simulating ww1 aircraft would be far from impossible just as pointed out its proably not worth the effort as its a NICHE in a already NICHE genre. I generally like all eras of aviation, but even i find ww1 not to my taste. thier too slow, and materials lightweight, not really durable. Nontheless from a historical perspective ww1 aviation does deserve acknowledgement as it is the first conflict were aircraft were used in a mass scale, which is interesting since that point of aviation history was still in its infnacy, as the first fixed wing aircraaft had only been around a mere Decade.

 

anways for those who like ww1 flight Rise of Flight will have to do.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Kev2go

[NeilWillis]

Given that there are a large number of reproductions flying, and even one or two originals - especially at Old Warden in Bedfordshire UK, the lack of data isn't an issue at all - providing you have access to a wind tunnel and a few scientists.

 

Although WW1 is a very niche market, it was the crucible of all modern air combat tactics, and so I would suggest it'd make a very valid subject area for any warfare sandbox.

 

WW1 may be a very low priority, but it would also be a highly relevant one.

 

I also love the jet-wash comment! Very funny.

[Goblin]

As for WWI being a niche market, just look at how big RedBaron II/3D got, back in the days. And more recently, the excellent Rise of Flight. There are even modders making WWI mods for Combat Flight Simulator, called Wings over Flanders. Imagine that bunch getting into DCS..!

 

As for flight data. This was when flying still was being invented. Not very aerodynamically advanced crates. At such slow speeds, I would believe that a good wind tunnel simulation would make pretty good approximations. And if you partner up with The Vintage Aviator Ltd in New Zeeland, you could probably get a lot of good info. I bet The Fighter Colletion could pull some strings... ;)

[Buren]

In my opinion Rise of Flight and especially Wings Over Flanders Fields already cover the era generously; frankly, there is no need for DCS to step into this period (at least for the time being) -- as mentioned above, I'd rather see the current projects expanded and enhanced. I'd suggest you to try out the aforementioned games if you want to fly in the era of the First World War.

[Goblin]

None of them have VR support though...

[msalama]

KKKKK dudes, probably wouldn't be a profitable project & reliable / proper data for those old birds may be hard to come by as well. But I can dream, can I not ;)

[norbot]

I don't think we need another construction site in DCS. If I want to fly WWI aircraft, I switch over to Rise of Flight. I'm not even interested in the WWII aircraft and scenario. Let the developers and programmers finish the new sim-engine (2.5) and all the modern aircraft in the pipeline. That's the stuff that makes DCS what it is. :thumbup:

[Goblin]

If DCS 2.5 becomes the true sandbox sim that I imagine it will, core development of DCS shouldn't be affected by 3rd party mods.

[Buren]

Honestly, Wings over Flanders Fields is the markedly superior WW1 sim product (vis-a-vis RoF). Unfortunately, it does not have multiplayer (currently), but I am more of a solitary type of simmer (as many others in this hobby). Also there are relatively frequent paid addons/updates, but it's currently available iteration (which came out a few weeks ago) with all of the previously released stuff has a reasonable price taking into consideration the huge amount of content included. The focus is on the extremely well developed and historically researched dynamic campaign...

 

DCS, from my experience and impression of playing it as an end-user, presently has a focus on aircraft operating procedures and system management. Stuff, which are not important for WW1 aircraft. Basically, the latter are motorcycles with kites attached. There is simply not much onboard equipment to simulate. Also, there were literally several dozens/over a hundred types of different aircraft, with frequent equipment changes in units, not to mention period assets (buildings, ground/sea units,) which would require additional work. Note that Rise of Flight and WoFF reached their current amount of content after oh-so-many years.

 

I am content that DCS focuses on WW2≤Contemporary aircraft. There are modern/current generation alternatives for WW1 air combat; i.e.: if you want to fly WW1, you don't have to dust off the Red Baron series from the early-mid '90s...

[gavagai]

- there are other much more interesting periods

 

We all have our opinions.:smilewink:

[Buzzles]

I'd love a DCS level WWI sim.

 

One of the (many) things I find missing from RoF (not played WoFF), is the lack of systems modelling and clickable pits.

 

For those people saying WWI birds are simpiler, while they do have a lack of avionics, there's actually more work to do for a pilot in terms of engine management, fuel mixtures, cooling etc... stuff that's handled by automatic processes in the current WWII onwards birds we have.

 

I know Yo-Yo has actually posted a few times about the piston engines in DCS actually having a proper thermodynamic system in place, and obviously there has been slow inroads to a lot more fine grained modelling (think accrued damage when you run a 109 at top boost with MW-50 off, you get nasty noises and smoke from the exhausts), which would become more apparent with the manual management of the WWI birds.

 

There's also the new damage model coming into DCS soon(ish), which from the screen shots supports equipment and various things like spars and the like, which is needed for WWI birds.

WWI birds are oddly durable from a certain point of view, as there's a lot of plane which contains nothing but canvas and air so bullets go straight through and don't do a lot. For players, that actually means you have to spend time placing your shots, which adds to the challenge.

 

Essentially, you'd be trading avionics for a manual flying experience, in a DCS level combat enviroment.

I think that'd be quite fun.

 

Caveat is that it's even more of a niche, and would need terrain and unit support and tbh, some sort of dynamic mission gen.

[NeilWillis]

Well put Buzzles. Having to manage an engine such as the Bentley rotary, with air box control and fuel control, switching off one of the magnetos to enable the blip control are all systems that can and would be faithfully reproduced in DCS World.

 

Rise of Flight is an excellent rendition, but DCS World it certainly isn't. It would be a very welcome addition I feel, and looking at the detailing and care that has been put into the Spitfire, seeing the recreations of WW1 modules with wire bracing, wicker seats, castor oil residues all over everything, and the wing flex every time you start pulling Gs - I have a feeling if ever we do see something like a Spad, Albatross or Sopwith Camel, they'd be real gems.

 

How could anyone not want that?

[Banquo]

I have always had a soft spot for the WW1 era, If made by third parties, then that gives us more choice and options. As a consequence, this would increase the player base.

[msalama]

How could anyone not want that?

+1

 

Spot on mate. That's a bloody good question!

[Orange]

Not before the graphics engine and ground units are perfected, bugs are sorted out and a lot of much needed modules are brought in please. DCS has a huge potential to be an all-round modern day net-centric battle simulation. I personally dont prefer too much diversification without bringing in much needed improvements

[ebabil]

i always hated this era's planes

[msalama]

i always hated this era's planes

 

And I always loved them. Hence the thread ;)

 

OK, this is the ED wishlist board and they do have more important things on their plate, so they won't do a WW1 pack. But what if a 3rd party did? Would you still oppose it?