Current path of the DCS franchise. Do we need a course correction?

[iLOVEwindmills]

Hiring a community manager, there's a reason why this is an actual job at nearly every single company. Especially when the developers themselves are behind a language barrier.

 

Not having one is at the root of nearly all these issues lately.

[Gecko6]

Thank you all for keeping the conversation going and productive.

 

Unfortunately many good threads get shut down due to folks derailing it.

 

The DCS Community is a great thing but we cannot expect ED or any Dev to continue without new blood. I have already purchased the modules I want and my next one will be the Viggen.

 

Sure I bought the Hawk for 13 bucks with no intent to ever fly it. What did VEAO get out of it? That did not pay for a development resource or operational costs for a month.

 

At the end of the day money needs to be made by all.

[NineLine]

Hiring a community manager, there's a reason why this is an actual job at nearly every single company. Especially when the developers themselves are behind a language barrier.

 

Not having one is at the root of nearly all these issues lately.

 

 

Not sure what issue(s) you think this idea is the root of, possible you are confused?

[StandingCow]

 

Not sure what issue(s) you think this idea is the root of, possible you are confused?

 

HAHAHHA! As soon as I read the OP I said in my mind, "Shots fired!, Sith is gonna be all over this!" :D

[Gladman]

Although most mods do a good job here there certainly has been a few times that they get more than a little cocky. Thats easy to see.

 

As for the original topic.

 

I'd love to see fewer updates that had more meat to them. By that I'd like more info on the status of the works in progress. I'd like to know the order of priorities, and although I understand no timeline is solid, an estimate would be nice. Knowing these things can most certainly help with the direction virtual squadrons take. If the blah blah blah isn't going to be released until late next year, well, what else can we focus on? Keeping the community informed is the worst thing ED does. The best thing they do is put out really good products.

 

In my mind, ED should focus on 2.5, the Hornet (because the sim really needs a solid multi-platform aircraft), and finishing the WW2 stuff as promised. At that point, I believe it would be best if ED focused on DCS World and no longer produced aircraft. Leaving that to 3rd party companies is successful for other platforms and certainly can be for ED.

[StandingCow]

Although most mods do a good job here there certainly has been a few times that they get more than a little cocky. Thats easy to see.

 

As for the original topic.

 

I'd love to see fewer updates that had more meat to them. By that I'd like more info on the status of the works in progress. I'd like to know the order of priorities, and although I understand no timeline is solid, an estimate would be nice. Knowing these things can most certainly help with the direction virtual squadrons take. If the blah blah blah isn't going to be released until late next year, well, what else can we focus on? Keeping the community informed is the worst thing ED does. The best thing they do is put out really good products.

 

In my mind, ED should focus on 2.5, the Hornet (because the sim really needs a solid multi-platform aircraft), and finishing the WW2 stuff as promised. At that point, I believe it would be best if ED focused on DCS World and no longer produced aircraft. Leaving that to 3rd party companies is successful for other platforms and certainly can be for ED.

 

Being a mod is a pretty thankless job, I was one on a MUCH smaller forum and it is easy to get frustrated. You have to deal with so many different personalities and strong opinions that are behind the anonymity of the internet and thus a little "braver" than normal... which often results in being less civil. On top of that you have folks that are non-native English speakers which can add that much more room for misunderstanding.

 

I would bet in 99% of the cases where people say they were treated unfairly... that they deserved exactly what they got due to being ruder than they remember. Anyway... back to the thread subject...

[MegOhm_SD]

Many need to chill...we don't need to suggest to ED how they should run development or their business. A lot of gnashing of teeth over nothing we can control.

 

Maybe Comms could be improved...but until it happens, it is what it is.

[NineLine]

I would bet in 99% of the cases where people say they were treated unfairly... that they deserved exactly what they got due to being ruder than they remember. Anyway... back to the thread subject...

 

I disagree. But back to the topic.

 

I disagree as well.... its more like 99.9%.

[NineLine]

Many need to chill...we don't need to suggest to ED how they should run development or their business. A lot of gnashing of teeth over nothing we can control.

 

Maybe Comms could be improved...but until it happens, it is what it is.

 

They are aware there was an issue with communication this weekend. Doesnt justify all the reaction to it, but they are aware.

[BIGNEWY]

everyone has different expectations, it is difficult to make everyone happy.

 

As I am lucky enough to have a little insight from my point of view ED are on the right path, and I am happy.

 

We had a little miss communication as sithspawn mentions, but usually when ED have something to share they do, I see very little delay from when we see stuff as testers and what appears in weekly official posts.

[iLOVEwindmills]

 

Not sure what issue(s) you think this idea is the root of, possible you are confused?

 

I mean a paid position, someone who works physically at ED, can talk to the devs and actively works with the community as a job.

 

It is providing a direct and constant link between the developers and the community that works to both sides advantage. Feedback is filtered to the devs, information from the devs is filtered to the community. Additionally it involves marketing, customer support, PR etc. It's a pretty critical role and I don't recal any serious game company that did not employ someone for this role.

 

This is not a criticism of you or suggesting that you should be doing the above, it's a lot of work and that's why people get paid for doing it.

 

At least, I recall you posting a few days ago you weren't on EDs payroll or?

[NineLine]

I (and Groove) do much of what you list, and what I dont do, Wags does, as far as marketing and PR and such (and of course much more). There is no hole there. I have said over and over, if you feel you are not getting enough info, its because ED is not willing or able to share that info at the time.

[VAF [136] Striker]

We had a little miss communication as sithspawn mentions, but usually when ED have something to share they do, I see very little delay from when we see stuff as testers and what appears in weekly official posts.

I have a lot of respect for you BN but I beg to differ with you on this statement. We've had several "big" announcements that turned out to be delayed for a long time. The last post in this thread states that 2.0 would be ready in 2014 and we all know that got delayed for over a year. Same thing has been happening with the Hornet and now the 2.5 merge. The merge was supposed to happen earlier this year and now it's been delayed again so another year long delay.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=129630

 

Another thing that's kind of frustrating is that we always find out about delays and redirection from someone translating the Russian side of the forum. It seems like the English side is treated like an unwanted step child and we have to dig to get the information especially when it's bad news regarding official delays or problems.

Edited November 2, 2016 by 75th-VFS-Striker

[NineLine]

Once again, there are no firm release dates given there, they are estimates based on what they know at the time, nothing ED does is easy and quick, its all very complex. The 2.5 think is purely based the updating of the Black Sea map which wasnt planned back then.

 

The communication on the Ru side is not how its supposed to be done, and its been addressed.

 

I have a lot of respect for you BN but I beg to differ with you on this statement. We've had several "big" announcements that turned out to be delayed for a long time. The last post in this thread states that 2.0 would be ready in 2014 and we all know that got delayed for over a year. Same thing has been happening with the Hornet and now the 2.5 merge. The merge was supposed to happen earlier this year and now it's been delayed again so another year long delay.

https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=129630

 

Another thing that's kind of frustrating is that we always find out about delays and redirection from someone translating the Russian side of the forum. It seems like the English side is treated like an unwanted step child and we have to dig to get the information especially when it's bad news regarding official delays or problems.

[BIGNEWY]

sorry I should have been clearer, I was talking about information release and weekly posts, what ED post officially each week has very little delay from when we see it as testers.

[Gecko6]

The communication on the Ru side is not how its supposed to be done, and its been addressed.

 

Gecko's Translation: Some Russian dev or contractor spoke out of turn and was quoted and posted on the forums.

 

This happens quite a bit in the industry and all it takes is a small blurb in the Newsletter stating that information was misconstrued and not officially released by ED.

 

"We are sorry for this and do not communicate anything different based on Nationality"

 

Then the message is clear and nothing to be upset about.

 

Again this is Gecko speculation only.

[NineLine]

So you are saying giving an estimate of an entire year is pretty definitive? Come on...

 

And what is ED doing to hype anything? I am not sure what you consider hype, they show some screenshots or give some estimates and that is hype??? You want more info, but you dont want info because it might change and it gets you too hyped. If you dont want the info, unsub from the newsletter and avoid discussions on it. Some people like the sneak peeks, but its far from hype...

 

"DCS World 2.0 coming in 2014" is a pretty definitive statement. My point is that ED puts a lot of signals out there about stuff coming and it's directly connected with the sales and promotions so people have no choice but to interpret that what they say is what they mean. This isn't the only example. I can dig through the threads and find plenty more.

 

The hype train is not being generated by the the public but by ED itself. So I think that they need to stop doing this and I believe that's what Gecko has been trying to say as well. If they have something close to release, say it then. Don't build up everyone's expectations and then make us have to find out through other channels that a big let down is coming.

 

This is a valid complaint and not something that's just coming out of thin air!

[Gecko6]

Passion exists in the Community that is for sure.

 

The good news is that the Passion is for the success of DCS as a whole.

 

If ED thinks the current release cycle works and the weekly Newsletter does not detract from Development cycles then I am happy to sit back and wait for the fruits of EDs labor.

 

 

My agenda is to ensure that the 3rd Party Devs do not up and leave us due to lack of revenue hench my comment about too many sales.

 

It is hard enough for us Virtual Groups to recruit and retain pilots with out a solid foundation to base our ops on. The sooner the combined Exe is available the better for us all.

 

I see from all of the posts up till now, we all want and support ED but each person has different expectations on what is acceptable for communications from Ed.

 

 

1. Can we all agree that ED is not stone walling or playing with our emotions?
    
    
   
2. Can we all agree that ED has been in business for along time and they have a roadmap that they are truely trying to stick to but are at the mercy of the bug god?
    
    
   
3. If we can then lets move forward and curtail the feelings and emotions?
   

[NineLine]

Nobody wants 2.5 out faster than ED, nobody.

Edited November 2, 2016 by NineLine

[Gecko6]

Nobody wants 2.5 out faster the ED, nobody.

 

Can I get an Amen for Brother SiThSpAwN?

 

[SageOT]

... The communication on the Ru side is not how its supposed to be done, and its been addressed.

 

Thanks for that acknowledgement. :thumbup:

 

Sith, the other post of yours mentions the "hype." That's kind of what I was talking about in my earlier ramblings. I personally don't feel ED purposefully generates this evil "hype" we all talk about. Hell, 90% of the time I don't think it comes from the company at all.

 

But, the hype monster is real. I think the community mob tends to blame ED for generating it when it's actually just the mob feeding on itself. That's where the community goes wrong and needs to chill the eff out.

 

On the other side, I think the more information ED can release through yourself and the others in your position actually can decrease this dreaded hype.

 

Look at the 18C chit chat thread. It's really taken a turn for the better since you were allowed to "leak" all those little tidbits. Gives all us fans of the sim/plane something concrete to chat about instead of inventing our own hype based on stuff in the background of a live stream, or a dev's avatar, etc.

 

Very small bits of information, but -real- information, and all the sudden a majority of the "but when's it coming out" posts on that thread are gone and all you see on there is fun discussion and speculation about those little official tidbits.

 

So like I said. Personal opinion from watching the forums (of course not as much as the mods) seems to be that more information, (information not necessarily dates) leads to -less- "hype."

 

Lastly, awesome work community and ED volunteers keeping this thread civil. I've been enjoying the reading. Don't let it turn to the Dark Side, keep it up. (No pun intended Sith :smartass:)

[Gecko6]

Is the AI going to improve in 2.5 ? Is it even being worked on ?

 

Please do not turn this into a Q/A thread for things that cannot be answered.

 

 

The current topic is:

 

"How do we ensure that 3rd Party Devs do not flee due to lack of revenue from the core Community that has already purchased the Modules they want?"

 

1. Bring in fresh pilots
   
2. Promote missions and operations with said modules in them
   
3. Events focused on certain Modules / Era of aircraft
   

 

 

Anything I am forgetting?

[NineLine]

Is the AI going to improve in 2.5 ? Is it even being worked on ?

 

 

There is work being done on the AI, I dont know a timeline for it. Most likely it will trickle out in small chunks as updates are released.

 

ED is well aware of all issues and things they need to improve on. But no matter what they do there is only 24 hours in a day.

[NeilWillis]

Wow, such insight r@m, I bet ED never considered that!

 

As I understand it, getting the maps merged into 2.5 is a pretty core issue, would you not agree?

 

AI is an issue, but there are many more besides, and as already stated if you look at the post immediately before yours. it is being worked on. Also. as already pointed out numerous times, AI coding isn't the same as graphics coding, with different specialists working on both fronts, so what exactly was your point apart from utterly redundant?

 

I guess we are just back to the "I want it and I want it now" mindset already!

[QuiGon]

Since it's been dysfunctional for at least 6 years neither do ED.

 

Same old, same old, ignore the core issues, release pretty graphics of new modules, hype, sell sell sell, plug them into a game that is inherently broken on many levels.

 

Fix the damn game.

 

Maybe you should try multiplayer. No AI issues there ;)