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Just purchased the Gazelle


Zimmerdylan

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I bought the Gazelle module last week, and unfortunately my views remain the same, in agreement with 0xDEADBEEF. And that comment on pilot induced oscillations, huey or gazelle is very telling. I do not find the sensitivity of the Gazelle a problem at all, this is one of few things which are realistic, just as the huey is more sluggish and the Mi-8 even more so, but in other important aspects, the FM is just not on par with the Mi-8 or Huey imo. I'll guess I'll wait for the Hind or Cobra for my next purchase. BST just nails heli flight dynamics.

 

Don't be too quick with you judgement, BST also did not deliver right from the start, Polychop very well deserves a chance to improve, don't forget its early access and their very first release! :smilewink:

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You can press pedal any direction any deflection without needing to compensate on cyclic, the very same goes for collective, it just is not connected to cyclic - at all.

 

I havent flown the Gazelle for some weeks now, but I have to disagree with the statement. Collective does have an impact on the behavior of the Gazelle and needs to be corrected. same for the pedals.

Whether it has to be more visible, I couldnt tell, I never flew the real Gazelle but I remember that on the DCS Group on FB one friend of a real Gazelle pilot confirmed that the FM is quite close to the real deal

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I havent flown the Gazelle for some weeks now, but I have to disagree with the statement. Collective does have an impact on the behavior of the Gazelle and needs to be corrected. same for the pedals.

Whether it has to be more visible, I couldnt tell, I never flew the real Gazelle but I remember that on the DCS Group on FB one friend of a real Gazelle pilot confirmed that the FM is quite close to the real deal

 

We are turning in circles, over and over again. I am not saying and never have said "collective does not have inpact on the behavior of the Gazelle", I am saying collective has no influence on the pitch attitude, and pedals have no influence on the roll attitude, people even posted video showing that. I am not going to comment on real gazelle pilots saying it's close to the real deal, as it has been discussed sufficiently in this thread and in others (just look at post #23 in this thread if you're interested in my opinion).

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I have an extension on my TM warthog. The sensitivity is drastically reduced. I would advise increasing your curvature if you have no extension.

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I have an extension on my TM warthog. The sensitivity is drastically reduced. I would advise increasing your curvature if you have no extension.

 

IMO, decrease saturation instead. Don't add curves unless you have a problem with your stick.

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IMO, decrease saturation instead. Don't add curves unless you have a problem with your stick.

 

Definitely a matter of much discussion and opinion. :smartass:

 

Starting with the Black Shark, I've added curves to my TM Cougar and later the TM Warthog (both without extension) joystick axes, and also to rudder pedals, including MFG Crosswinds. I've applied a curve of 15 to all said axes for pretty much every single module, and I'm happy with these settings.

 

Personally, I wouldn't reduce the saturation, because that would mean I couldn't achieve the same maximum input as the real thing.

 

I understand why some people don't like curves, but for me they're the way to go, and I'm only going to get rid of them if I add an extension. :thumbup:

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Don't be too quick with you judgement, BST also did not deliver right from the start, Polychop very well deserves a chance to improve, don't forget its early access and their very first release! :smilewink:

 

This is something that I have seriously taken into account on this chopper. I am pretty forgiving of it's faults because it does feel very natural to me. Whenever I run into as bug or an issue with it's FM, I just say to myself "It'll get fixed".

I just love flying it.

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I believe curvature is meant to mimic length of stick.

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I believe curvature is meant to mimic length of stick.

Not exactly. Increasing the length of the stick physically increases the range that the hand can travel which in other words so to say increases the control resolution and decrease the sensitivity.

Curvatures can't do that for you. Instead they are used to change the sensitivity/resolution at specific sections of the whole control distance. Still however since the distance itself didn't change when setting the curve to increase the sensitivity/resolution at the beginning of the stick travel, an reverse effect of decreased sensitivity/resolution will appear at the end of the stick travel.

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...will appear at the end of the stick travel.

 

Which, OTOH, is _not_ where you want to be without having trimmed the chopper first.

 

The thing is, some folks like curves, some saturation, some nothing at all, and it all depends on their personal setups, preferences and even physique. So what, then, is the single all-encompassing true solution to this? Well the one that makes YOU happy gets my vote at least ;)

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Which, OTOH, is _not_ where you want to be without having trimmed the chopper first.

 

The thing is, some folks like curves, some saturation, some nothing at all, and it all depends on their personal setups, preferences and even physique. So what, then, is the single all-encompassing true solution to this? Well the one that makes YOU happy gets my vote at least

Agree, the sole purpose for curves, saturation etc.. is to give everyone possibility to fine tune the controls to their personal preferences.:thumbup:

Elaborating however for a second on the controls curvatures as also cyclic “trimming”. Let’s say that we're using a curve that adjusts precision at the beginning of the stick travel (and thus decreases it at the end). When the joystick is in neutral position, applying force will result in a gentle, relatively slow movement of the "real" cyclic. Just as an illustration – the joystick is deflected by 4° while the "real" cyclick only by 1°. Now if the joystick is close to its maximum deflection the situation is becoming opposite. Even its slight movement will result in a rapid, much faster controls response. As an example, deflecting joystick by 4° will result in 16° deflection of the helicopter cyclic.

This could be also visualized in other way. At the beginning of the movement the perceived experience is as operating longer stick than the joystick is in reality. In more or less the half of the deflection distance the controls length are the same. Further on, the perceived joystick movement starts to be like it would be shorter than it is in reality.

Obviously those effects are stronger the higher the curvature setting is. “Trimming” helps to mitigate the problem as we’re starting with joystick in neutral position (and from the beginning of the curve) but still the conclusion is that the speed of joystick input is not consistent with the reaction speed of the controls and is the function of the amount of deflection.

Personally I don’t like the curvature it as it makes exercising the muscle memory extremely difficult. Conceptually the curves can be compared to the mouse acceleration that is just a no go for every conscious FPS player. Going through the initial pain and frustration of learning the “linear”, one-to-one controls IMO brings more benefits in longer time perspective.

To be clear, I’m not being religious here. Just trying to help to understand the curves as those have positives but also come with some cost. It is up to everyone’s personal preferences what can be accepted.:thumbup:

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I understand why some people don't like curves, but for me they're the way to go, and I'm only going to get rid of them if I add an extension. :thumbup:

 

Have extension, still use curves! :thumbup:

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Have a extension, still apply heavy saturation change to get stick partially workable at starts, but then it breaks everything else as there is no change to control when it sudddenly wants to go in smooth mid-flight to ground.

 

Just need to wait that developers gets things fixed.

 

But few questions for developers:

 

1) Is there public information to have the measurement what is the real Gazelle cyclic length from the axis, so own extension for joysticks could be made realistic?

 

2) What joysticks and values does the test pilots use? Would be nice to know that if real pilots testing it are using Warthog as is without any extension and without any curvature/saturation changes and if not, with what settings?

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I believe curvature is meant to mimic length of stick.

 

Curvature is to fix the pilot errors from doing too radical stick movements in fighter jets cockpits, in expense of not getting real feeling how much movement to apply as at different physical range means different virtual range. So more input = exponential output.

 

Saturation is to mimic the length of the stick, in expense of limiting the virtual range narrower. So you need larger input to get same output. It is just a ratio.

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I think, when it comes to light weight choppers, this is exactly what I would expect to see from the forums.

A very agile chopper with a massive variation of sim controller setups and preferences.

With light weights it is more critical... I think.

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Pretty good explanation by Fri13. Still, what works for YOU is the right solution for YOU, isn't it?

 

I would definitely say so!:thumbup:

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