Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9

[Ciribob]

We usually post exactly that at the end of each round. Check out the round stats on the buddyspike website :)

 

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Edited May 26, 2017 by Ciribob

[Tello]

It kind of had that feature in the "beginning" You had to submit on the forums what team you wanted to represent. The problem is the same now as before in my optic: Squads/friends tend to stick together and this is understandable. I'm sure it would be easier to "level" out the rooster if we went back to Abortedmans idea or the forum sign up.

Only the rare few want to be the idiot with all the numbers working for them/is no fun to be on either sides when it is totally unbalanced.

 

 

A web-based roster or registration to display how many chose which team for a mission cycle would fix a lot of problems, but that may be asking a lot.

[iLOVEwindmills]

What's more likely to happen:?

 

1. All fighters start with fuel.

 

or

 

2.The Mirage falls in line with the rest of them and gets fuel removed.

 

Why do you think this option is set this way in the first place?

 

 

Likely? I don't care about what's likely, I want to see what's most sensible. Most sensible is to bring the FC3 fighters up to the level of the M2k, as bringing the m2k as far down as the FC3 fighters is not possible. Even without fuel the M2k will be faster to get read than the FC3 machines. A solution that actually brings them in line rather than making it just a bit less uneven.

 

We went over the 'why' of this a hundred times. Including in the post right above it, I'm getting tired of going around in circles.

[AbortedMan]

Likely? I don't care about what's likely, I want to see what's most sensible. Most sensible is to bring the FC3 fighters up to the level of the M2k, as bringing the m2k as far down as the FC3 fighters is not possible. Even without fuel the M2k will be faster to get read than the FC3 machines. A solution that actually brings them in line rather than making it just a bit less uneven.

 

We went over the 'why' of this a hundred times. Including in the post right above it, I'm getting tired of going around in circles.

 

Then stop responding. This is an Internet forum...circles is all we do.

 

FC3 fighters (any fighter) being able to get up in the air in less than 2 minutes shouldn't be a thing in Blue Flag. Every measure possible should be taken to prevent it.

 

What you're asking will promote airquake and less value in virtual lives.

[AbortedMan]

We usually post exactly that at the end of each round. Check out the round stats on the buddyspike website :)

 

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I see the stats in the ED forum post for each round, but not anything that shows stats for population of the testing phase...mind providing a link if I'm missing something?

[Frostie]

Likely? I don't care about what's likely, I want to see what's most sensible. Most sensible is to bring the FC3 fighters up to the level of the M2k, as bringing the m2k as far down as the FC3 fighters is not possible. Even without fuel the M2k will be faster to get read than the FC3 machines. A solution that actually brings them in line rather than making it just a bit less uneven.

 

We went over the 'why' of this a hundred times. Including in the post right above it, I'm getting tired of going around in circles.

Cutting the fuel of the Mirage does make sense when there is no alternative, you don't have to fill an FC3 aircraft to the brim, it's optional. Heck an F-15 has 60% of a Flankers fuel by just sticking tanks on. If you want to be an effective CAP you have to spend 4 or 5 mins rearming and refueling in an F15 or Su27, lets bring the Mirage closer to that, I don't see why there should be a cloud of doubt over it.

 

Just giving everything full fuel takes us back to square one, fighters are the bane of this mission, they die the most yet have the easiest survival chances. BS introduced it for a reason alongside the lives system and it works. Not only does it slow the spam but also deters casual solo players.

[iLOVEwindmills]

Then stop responding. This is an Internet forum...circles is all we do.

 

FC3 fighters (any fighter) being able to get up in the air in less than 2 minutes shouldn't be a thing in Blue Flag. Every measure possible should be taken to prevent it.

 

What you're asking will promote airquake and less value in virtual lives.

 

So remove the mirage from the game because according to your logic it's ruining it already?

 

Then stop responding. This is an Internet forum...circles is all we do.

 

You think being on the internet entitles you to argue in bad faith? Interesting. Because I am indeed getting the feeling that you aren't interested in an actual discussion. Let's put an end to this here then.

 

 

Cutting the fuel of the Mirage does make sense when there is no alternative, you don't have to fill an FC3 aircraft to the brim, it's optional. Heck an F-15 has 60% of a Flankers fuel by just sticking tanks on. If you want to be an effective CAP you have to spend 4 or 5 mins rearming and refueling in an F15 or Su27, lets bring the Mirage closer to that, I don't see why there should be a cloud of doubt over it.

 

Just giving everything full fuel takes us back to square one, fighters are the bane of this mission, they die the most yet have the easiest survival chances. BS introduced it for a reason alongside the lives system and it works. Not only does it slow the spam but also deters casual solo players.

 

The thing is it will barely make it any more even. An F15C takes 7 minutes to get ready with a full tank. An M2k takes 3 minutes according to the people here. Once you change the fuel to zero it now takes 4 minutes to get it ready.

 

How does it not make sense to give the Su27 and M2K the same time to get ready? Make the m2k start empty and give the FC3 planes enough fuel that they can get ready in 4 minutes as well. You realize that the endurance of the M2K and FC3 planes is very similar right?

 

Flying with 60% fuel in an FC3 fighter gives you massively reduced endurance compared to the Mirage, it's not really an option unless you want to airquake only.

[lemoen]

What about the 8 minutes it takes for the Mirage INS to align?

[CrashO]

The thing is it will barely make it any more even. An F15C takes 7 minutes to get ready with a full tank. An M2k takes 3 minutes according to the people here. Once you change the fuel to zero it now takes 4 minutes to get it ready. .

What all the FC3 flyboys seem to forget is that the Mirage after fueling, arming and spooling her up, isn't yet ready for a serious fight. Since the radar still has to warm up for a few minutes. In the F-15 and Su-27 you can hit your magical radar scan mode button directly after takeoff and it works. So if the airfield is swarming with hostiles, there's not really a point in taking off, until the radar is hot. Or you will be about as effective in A-A combat as your average SU25 pointing heaters at random things. Adding multiple minutes to the mirages startup time.

 

If the airfield is not swarming with hostiles, but you have to fly 70 miles to get to them, the couple of minutes this whole fuel no fuel discussion is about isn't really going to be a factor..

[lemoen]

^ This too. Radar takes a good few minutes to start working.

[iLOVEwindmills]

What all the FC3 flyboys seem to forget is that the Mirage after fueling, arming and spooling her up, isn't yet ready for a serious fight. Since the radar still has to warm up for a few minutes. In the F-15 and Su-27 you can hit your magical radar scan mode button directly after takeoff and it works. So if the airfield is swarming with hostiles, there's not really a point in taking off, until the radar is hot. Or you will be about as effective in A-A combat as your average SU25 pointing heaters at random things. Adding multiple minutes to the mirages startup time.

 

If the airfield is not swarming with hostiles, but you have to fly 70 miles to get to them, the couple of minutes this whole fuel no fuel discussion is about isn't really going to be a factor..

 

When the airfield is swarming with hostiles then that is the only reason to need the radar immediately. Besides if you turn it immediately it will be pretty much ready by the time you take off. Assuming the extra minute for no fuel it should be ready.

 

It's not like the vast majority of the time you have your field swarming with hostiles, if it is you would usually pick 1 base further up anyway. This is an extreme example that rarely applies.

[Frostie]

The thing is it will barely make it any more even. An F15C takes 7 minutes to get ready with a full tank. An M2k takes 3 minutes according to the people here. Once you change the fuel to zero it now takes 4 minutes to get it ready.

 

How does it not make sense to give the Su27 and M2K the same time to get ready? Make the m2k start empty and give the FC3 planes enough fuel that they can get ready in 4 minutes as well. You realize that the endurance of the M2K and FC3 planes is very similar right?

 

Flying with 60% fuel in an FC3 fighter gives you massively reduced endurance compared to the Mirage, it's not really an option unless you want to airquake only.

This totally depends on your payload, if you take fully loaded Flanker then expect to burn more fuel, the fact is there is an option to take less fuel and less weapons to conform with a 5 minute take off and still perform an equal on station time to the Mirage.

 

I'm still waiting for your way of making ends meet as giving all aircraft full fuel is not an option.

What about the 8 minutes it takes for the Mirage INS to align?

Exactly so if Mirage pilots spool up correctly (most don't) the refuelling they would be doing would be moot, so there is another reason why adding the refuelling is good idea.

 

What all the FC3 flyboys seem to forget is that the Mirage after fueling, arming and spooling her up, isn't yet ready for a serious fight. Since the radar still has to warm up for a few minutes. In the F-15 and Su-27 you can hit your magical radar scan mode button directly after takeoff and it works. So if the airfield is swarming with hostiles, there's not really a point in taking off, until the radar is hot. Or you will be about as effective in A-A combat as your average SU25 pointing heaters at random things. Adding multiple minutes to the mirages startup time.

 

If the airfield is not swarming with hostiles, but you have to fly 70 miles to get to them, the couple of minutes this whole fuel no fuel discussion is about isn't really going to be a factor..

 

I'll ignore the lack of maturity in your post, I hope you can change that though.

The point of refuelling is to stop spam on attack and adding it to all fighters makes all the other fighters more appealing, this refuelling doesn't impact anything other than those guys that want to get off the ground in a minute and a half so why do you have an issue?

It doesn't make your radar warm up slow down or your INS not align and will be fuelled up during and before either of these happen.

Does an FC flyboy really need to teach you Mirage procedures now, pm me for lessons.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Frostie

[CrashO]

I'll ignore the lack of maturity in your post, I hope you can change that though.

The point of refuelling is to stop spam on attack and adding it to all fighters makes all the other fighters more appealing, this refuelling doesn't impact anything other than those guys that want to get off the ground in a minute and a half so why do you have an issue?

I don't. As I said 5 pages ago, the Mirage should be empty, just like all the other aircraft.

 

I agree that the mirage should be empty on start. But to start the arcade planes on a full tank (and the mirage empty) to compensate for the small and nimble intercept jet being able to do a fast startup and re-arm does not seem reasonable.

 

The point you I was talking about (and you couldn't wait to bash over), was that it doesn't make sense to start out the FC3 aircraft on filled tanks to bring their take-off timer down, and take the fuel out of the mirage to bring the timer up, in an attempt to close the gap.

 

Yes, mirage should be empty. All planes should. No, the FC3 planes should not start on half a tank because the mirage can fill up her tiny tank faster then they can. That was the point. Mr mature Sir.

[BitMaster]

I for one would like to see all FC3 removed :joystick:

 

Just that there is no substitute for those planes in full fidelity.

 

Maybe one day we can skip those and fly proper all together.

[Frostie]

I don't. As I said 5 pages ago, the Mirage should be empty, just like all the other aircraft.

 

 

 

The point you I was talking about (and you couldn't wait to bash over), was that it doesn't make sense to start out the FC3 aircraft on filled tanks to bring their take-off timer down, and take the fuel out of the mirage to bring the timer up, in an attempt to close the gap.

 

Yes, mirage should be empty. All planes should. No, the FC3 planes should not start on half a tank because the mirage can fill up her tiny tank faster then they can. That was the point. Mr mature Sir.

 

I apologise if i've jumped the gun but please stop with the FC pilot pigeonholing and degrading.

[Dino Might]

It really shouldn't bother you to be able to be airborne quickly, its a very small part of your sortie time, unless your standard sortie results in you being shot down very quickly.

 

How often have you been on the 10 v 2 outnumbered team? :lol:

 

I can get airborne in a Mirage faster than I can get airborne in an F-5.

 

Personally, I would like to see fewer Mirage and F-15/Su-27 slots available at each base, and replace with more MiG-21/F-5 slots (and put the F-5 on both sides!). I understand limitations that most people who play don't have all the modules and many just have FC3, but there are still slots of Su-25T and A-10A that can be used. I'd just like to not have to fly against 8 M2Ks in my F-5 all the time, unless the players are going to make some effort to balance teams (which they have not been doing for the past...oh...six rounds or so).

 

Airquake is fun, but only for so long.

Edited May 26, 2017 by Dino Might

[lemoen]

How often have you been on the 10 v 2 outnumbered team? :lol:

 

I can get airborne in a Mirage faster than I can get airborne in an F-5.

 

Personally, I would like to see fewer Mirage and F-15/Su-27 slots available at each base, and replace with more MiG-21/F-5 slots (and put the F-5 on both sides!). I understand limitations that most people who play don't have all the modules and many just have FC3, but there are still slots of Su-25T and A-10A that can be used. I'd just like to not have to fly against 8 M2Ks in my F-5 all the time, unless the players are going to make some effort to balance teams (which they have not been doing for the past...oh...six rounds or so).

 

Airquake is fun, but only for so long.

 

 

True. I also long for things to do in the F5 and Viggen (besides lobbing mavs at stuff or reverse engineering the mission file to get BK90 coords). I still say there should be a way for players to disable bases that spawns the modern fighters, be it via runway denial, destruction of fuel depots or otherwise, and yes, limit the fancy planes a bit, make them valuable assets, like they are IRL.

[Frostie]

An airframe life limit on the advanced airbases would be great for fighters. They could be replenished by time or transit. Only say Anapa and Batumi could be unlimited while the others capped. Maybe Min Vody and Tblisi having a much higher cap. Something along those lines would maybe limit the consistency of top level fighters on the front.

[lemoen]

It was just an example. Opposite ends of map and all. Anapa and Tblisi. Better?

 

 

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[lemoen]

A good suggestion I thought too.

 

 

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[Alpenwolf]

server's been offline for a while now...

[xcom]

Server is back up.

[AbortedMan]

Where or to whom can one report ill moral behavior on the Blue Flag server?

[Neon]

I take it that there are no plans to include the viggen into blue flag?

 

 

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[AbortedMan]

I take it that there are no plans to include the viggen into blue flag?

 

 

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The Viggen is available on both sides already...do you mean objectives specific to the Viggen's capabilities?