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Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 9


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As a helicopter pilot myself I understand some of the frustration.

 

I really wish farps/airbases had more than 2 slots per helicopter type. In particular the UH-1 for hauling troops. If more than 2 attack helicopter slots is to much then please at least think about adding additional troop ship slots. I would be happy with even a single additional bumping it to 3. Not asking for a full air wing

 

I've had enough situations which I wanted to help out a in extreme need farp/airbase and or fly with a few friendly pilots.

 

Also I agree with the topic brought up a few pages ago. Up the base defenses with a random chance of beefy sams and also randomize the placement of units.

 

I've seen A-10 guys within 2 mins of being on station have 80% of a point down on there first pass. Grats to them for remembering where everything is but it makes it feel cheesy.

 

 

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I am not removing these messages, instead an example is needed.   @D4n, we have already stated we will not enforce, support or back any rules governing how servers are run or who they allow

The rights of all DCS players?  It is a private server with it's own rules.  And apparently I wasn't wrong as you literally did use two accounts.   Let me leave you an example:   I

How to have issue solved: Not breaking the rules and getting banned in the first place. Create your own server with own rules and play there Understand this is how it is and go o

I've seen A-10 guys within 2 mins of being on station have 80% of a point down on there first pass. Grats to them for remembering where everything is but it makes it feel cheesy.

 

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We also typically have a long flight in. You can start spotting targets at 25ish miles out and then have all of them marked by the time you can fire.

 

TJ

 

 

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We also typically have a long flight in. You can start spotting targets at 25ish miles out and then have all of them marked by the time you can fire.

 

TJ

 

 

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Yes indeed. I fly the A-10 myself. However that is only when the A-10s can coast in. A perfect prep scenario.

 

I've seen the example I provided when they had to rush through valleys with and/or dodging enemy cap the whole way in. Zero prep time.

 

 

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I've seen A-10 guys within 2 mins of being on station have 80% of a point down on there first pass. Grats to them for remembering where everything is but it makes it feel cheesy.

 

realsim argument:

Americans do it all the time with thier Spysatelites, Drones and...actual spys. Checking where stuff is bevor takeoff that is.

 

gameplay argument:

some people are good at remembering stuff, others have good at dogfighting instincts. I for example have bad Situational Awareness and anything related to BFMs, but i enjoy doing preperation for a flight.

'controlling' the Ka50 feels like a discussion with the Autopilot and trim system about the flight direction.

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realsim argument:

Americans do it all the time with thier Spysatelites, Drones and...actual spys. Checking where stuff is bevor takeoff that is.

 

gameplay argument:

some people are good at remembering stuff, others have good at dogfighting instincts. I for example have bad Situational Awareness and anything related to BFMs, but i enjoy doing preperation for a flight.

 

What kind of thought process does one need posses so that they think units forever spawning in the same location is O.K?

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What kind of thought process does one need posses so that they think units forever spawning in the same location is O.K?

 

The logic that realizes that someone has to do a lot of work to change all of those spawn locations to fulfill aforementioned request.

 

I personally chalk it up to this being a game and things spawning in the same location is a gameplay function limitation only influenced by extra work by the mission creator put in to rectify that discrepancy. Of course it would be nice, but the scope of work in Blue Flag mission editing is probably already huge.

 

If mission editing in DCS is anything like IL2:BoS, one could create units that have a user-set percentage-based chance of spawning in various user-set locations based on the units that are already established, but that means the mission creator would have to apply this logic to every single unit already in the mission...which means they'd have to basically rebuild the mission twice, three, four, or five times over based on how many variations of locations and units being spawned were wanted.

 

That's hours and hours of work. It's not as simply done as many would think.


Edited by AbortedMan
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The logic that realizes that someone has to do a lot of work to change all of those spawn locations to fulfill aforementioned request.

 

I personally chalk it up to this being a game and things spawning in the same location is a gameplay function limitation only influenced by extra work by the mission creator put in to rectify that discrepancy. Of course it would be nice, but the scope of work in Blue Flag mission editing is probably already huge.

 

If mission editing in DCS is anything like IL2:BoS, one could create units that have a user-set percentage-based chance of spawning in various user-set locations based on the units that are already established, but that means the mission creator would have to apply this logic to every single unit already in the mission...which means they'd have to basically rebuild the mission twice, three, four, or five times over based on how many variations of locations and units being spawned were wanted.

 

That's hours and hours of work. It's not as simply done as many would think.

 

You knowthis all started out as I said it would be nice to have them random. Then a bunch of nerds joined in and started nit picking the scenarios I gave for why I wanted them to be random. Not one tried to argue with whether they should be random or not.

 

Now you come in and further skew my post even further by insinuating that I was saying its easy.

 

Since you brought up the difficulties in what it would require I'll switch subjects and take a stab at it.

 

I hate LUA and I don't feel like refreshing my DCS command syntax ATM since I'm at work so you're going to get this in Python. Its not difficult to template out random locations. Even semi-random which is what my example uses.

 

class UnitDef(object):
 '''

 '''

 def __init__(unitId, spawnLocations, probablity):
   self._id = unitId
   self._spawns = spawnLocations
   self._probability = probability

 def id(self):
   '''

   '''

   return self._id

 def locations(self):
   '''

   '''

   return list(self._spawns)

 def spawn(self, team):
   '''

   '''

   do_create = random.random() <= self._probability

   if do_create == True:
     location = random.choice(self._spawns)

     DCS.createGroup(location, team)

def unitDefsForCapturePoint(capturePoint, team):
 return UNIT_DEFS[capturePoint][team]

def initializeCapturePoint(capturePoint, team)
 '''

 '''

 setBaseToTeam(team)

 for unit in unitDefsForCapturePoint(capturePoint, team):
   unit.spawn(team)

initializeCapturePoint(RED_TEAM)

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Nice. Now apply that about 400 more times to each unit group in the mission and make sure it's bug-free and works as intended within the margins of available system resources and we should be good to go.

 

 

 

The whole point of what I posted is so you don't have to apply it 400 times.

 

In the mission editor all you should have to create is spawn points around an airbase. Trigger zones that abide by a naming convention so that your code knows what they are. Then you create a template lua file for each base and define what units can spawn in what types of spawn zones.

 

You then code loading the templates and it's automatic and allows you to make easy adjustments.

 

Farps and come arrays could each be defined by single template definition. Because you don't have to worry about the varying layout of airports. And problematic ones because of geographic location, well you just template them out on a need to basis like an airport.

 

When it comes to DCS and mission scripting. The game is limited in what you can do API wise that you can't really get lost in doing something overly complex.

 

I'd have more bugs related to getting LUA correct then I would with the implementation. Tyvm!

 

 

 

 

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I was using personal experience with the IL2:BoS mission editor using percentage based timers and unit virtualization, as I stated in my post, and there it is not as simple as allowing LUA to do the work...but what you're explaining sounds like you can implement pretty easily and quickly. Maybe you should get in contact with the Blue Flag guys and start working on this?

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There won't be updates for a while now anyway, as we're starting work on new BlueFlag scripts which will take up a lot of time instead... :)

 

 

You seemed to have missed this ^

 

Position randomisation is being worked on as part of the new scripts. As a first pass it'll just move the units slightly each spawn so they don't spawn on top of wreckage.

 

What you suggest is similar to what we're doing , the issue with zones and templates is each base has unique unit positioning which we'd like to keep.

 

So say 5 groups at each base, plus then 5 spawn zones , then double again for the other coalition (although you could reuse the spawn zones), it's a lot of mission editor work to lay out either way. You can't use one spawn zone as there is no guarantee units won't a spawn on each other picking a random point in a zone. You can't compare unit points either as units our different sizes so you'd have to do a bounding box around the point, which is ok other than that's a bunch of processing whichll cause lag.

 

We also need to keep the mission size down to make loading in faster which is another tradeoff.

 

We're trying to do our best with limited time and the unique constraints of DCS, hardware and performance for 50 players. :)

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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You seemed to have missed this ^

 

Position randomisation is being worked on as part of the new scripts. As a first pass it'll just move the units slightly each spawn so they don't spawn on top of wreckage.

 

What you suggest is similar to what we're doing , the issue with zones and templates is each base has unique unit positioning which we'd like to keep.

 

So say 5 groups at each base, plus then 5 spawn zones , then double again for the other coalition (although you could reuse the spawn zones), it's a lot of mission editor work to lay out either way. You can't use one spawn zone as there is no guarantee units won't a spawn on each other picking a random point in a zone. You can't compare unit points either as units our different sizes so you'd have to do a bounding box around the point, which is ok other than that's a bunch of processing whichll cause lag.

 

We also need to keep the mission size down to make loading in faster which is another tradeoff.

 

We're trying to do our best with limited time and the unique constraints of DCS, hardware and performance for 50 players. :)

 

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Glad to hear.

 

We are on the same page.

 

The template system I mentioned accounts for individual bases. FARPS and COMM arrays you wouldn't need to individualize as much.

 

When I say spawn zone I'm referring to a 25/50 yard in size area. Not the entire capture point area :). That way you can still place zones around a capture point in the editor and have confidence units wont be spawning in the water or inside a building..

 

So for example if a capture point had 10 units that can spawn at it you might make 25 different spawn zones, dummy trigger zones, all over the point.

 

Each template configuration would define the units for the capture point and what zones at the capture point they are allowed to occupy.

 

When a capture point reads its template it loops the units and spawns them. As each unit is created and put in a respected zone. It consumes the zone from the capture point which would prevent other units from occupying the same area. No need to worry about collisions.

 

When a unit dies it releases its zone back to the point. Allowing new units to spawn as the base is repaired.

 

I knew if I posted any type of code, sudo or not, that someone would say put up or shut up. Was hopelessly praying nobody would call it as I have enough side projects.

 

But since my weekends are spent mostly running around BF I would possibly consider taking a stab at it if requested.

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Glad to hear.

 

We are on the same page.

 

The template system I mentioned accounts for individual bases. FARPS and COMM arrays you wouldn't need to individualize as much.

 

When I say spawn zone I'm referring to a 25/50 yard in size area. Not the entire capture point area :). That way you can still place zones around a capture point in the editor and have confidence units wont be spawning in the water or inside a building..

 

So for example if a capture point had 10 units that can spawn at it you might make 25 different spawn zones, dummy trigger zones, all over the point.

 

Each template configuration would define the units for the capture point and what zones at the capture point they are allowed to occupy.

 

When a capture point reads its template it loops the units and spawns them. As each unit is created and put in a respected zone. It consumes the zone from the capture point which would prevent other units from occupying the same area. No need to worry about collisions.

 

When a unit dies it releases its zone back to the point. Allowing new units to spawn as the base is repaired.

 

I knew if I posted any type of code, sudo or not, that someone would say put up or shut up. Was hopelessly praying nobody would call it as I have enough side projects.

 

But since my weekends are spent mostly running around BF I would possibly consider taking a stab at it if requested.

 

Yes I understand the suggestions and I know what you mean about the capture zones too.

 

As I say we want (because we're crazy) particular formations unique to each base, and differing units per case,and they will be moved around in respect to their initial group template centroid in the editor to start with.

 

What you have suggested is similar to what I've been toying with at airbases as, as you say, you have more "safe" space to play with.

 

When you see it, if you're not happy, feel free to post a proof of concept as time is not something I have that much of either :)

 

What you have suggested with the zones does require a lot of effort in the mission editor, creating all the zones per airfield, which increases mission size, that's what I'm trying to avoid. The concept is fine, it's the knock on effects.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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Great. Looking forward to the changes.

 

One last thing, I hate to add more to the pile..

 

It would be nice if there were some cleanup for helicopters to do before being able to take a capture point.

 

Not asking for complex scenarios. Could we maybe have 10-15 troops spawn that scatter when the bunkers are destroyed.

 

Would be nice to have a little extra flavor to the fly 30 mins, avoid enemy cap, drop troops routine.

 

Then again I can see a single enemy troop running off into the weeds and impossible to find. Preventing a capture which I would instantly regret :)

 

 

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Great. Looking forward to the changes.

 

One last thing, I hate to add more to the pile..

 

It would be nice if there were some cleanup for helicopters to do before being able to take a capture point.

 

Not asking for complex scenarios. Could we maybe have 10-15 troops spawn that scatter when the bunkers are destroyed.

 

Would be nice to have a little extra flavor to the fly 30 mins, avoid enemy cap, drop troops routine.

 

Then again I can see a single enemy troop running off into the weeds and impossible to find. Preventing a capture which I would instantly regret :)

 

 

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On the list :)

 

Defenders will spawn when the airbase is closed to make it a little exciting but again this is all subject to change as wags says.

 

Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk

Scripts: Complete Transport And Logistics Deployment - CTLD / CTLD Examples - Lots of example of how to use CTLD

CSAR Script - Downed Pilot Rescue / Dedicated Server Script - Automatically launch DCS Multiplayer server at startup

Range Scoring Script - Get scores and counts hits on targets for gunnery or bombs / SimpleSlotBlock - Multiplayer dynamic Slot Blocking Script

 

Projects: DCS-SimpleRadio Standalone - DCS Radio Integration for All Aircraft - NO TeamSpeak Required! :)

DCS-SimpleRadio Troubleshooting Post / DCS-SimpleRadio Free Support Channel on Discord

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@Ciribob Thank you about explaining SRS features.

 

I would personally like it this way:

 

SRS -> connect to IP -> connected to server

 

Set option: Set default action 'Spectator use' in general settings of SRS (public channel*/coordinator channel) *default

 

Connected as spectator:

You're in 'public channel' (talking to booth or single team)

-- heres the catch -- this 'public channel' becomes 'coordinator channel' switched by button (United Nations button) or whatever default option is set in options

 

In game slot:

You're in 'coordinator channel' by default (talking only to single team selected)

 

Channel selector/radio menu (talking only on desired channel/freq.).. etc. as usual.

 

Sniper said and I have also noticed that my game crashes more often if using SRS. Preliminary observation, even I noticed that my DCS crashes more often after latest patch.


Edited by jackmckay
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In game slot:

You're in 'coordinator channel' by default (talking only to single team selected)

...I personally do NOT wanna see this. Because it leads to the situation that this "coordinator channel" developes within 1 day to the new Battle-Net/GCI-channel because people are just lazy as hell and do not feel any need to tune the correct frequency.

Sorry Gentlemen, but besides all "gameplay"-ideas this is a simulation still! And one if the things really everybody should be able to manage is: use the radio of the aircraft you fly in the proper way like it is done in reallife. DCS is not meant to be a "game" for arcade-style players as of "jump-in-and-fly" and "jump-in-and-talk" kind. So - no - people shouldn't be able to talk this way.

Use Teamspeak for this things, but let the simulator be what it is: an aircraft simulator (and SRS is the addon what adds the aircraft radios in the reallife like proper way to all aircraft, not more and not less)!

 

(PS: Still more or less no crashes at all here. Maybe once in 2 weeks and I wouldn't blame that on SRS.)


Edited by -Painter-
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REAPER 31 | Painter

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...I personally do NOT wanna see this. Because it leads to the situation that this "coordinator channel" developes within 1 day to the new Battle-Net/GCI-channel because people are just lazy as hell and do not feel any need to tune the correct frequency.

Sorry Gentlemen, but besides all "gameplay"-ideas this is a simulation still! And one if the things really everybody should be able to manage is: use the radio of the aircraft you fly in the proper way like it is done in reallife. DCS is not meant to be a "game" for arcade-style players as of "jump-in-and-fly" and "jump-in-and-talk" kind. So - no - people shouldn't be able to talk this way.

Use Teamspeak for this things, but let the simulator be what it is: an aircraft simulator (and SRS is the addon what adds the aircraft radios in the reallife like proper way to all aircraft, not more and not less)!

 

(PS: Still more or less no crashes at all here. Maybe once in 2 weeks and I wouldn't blame that on SRS.)

 

+1

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

*unexpected flight behaviour* Oh shiii*** ! What ? Why ? What is happening ?

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...I personally do NOT wanna see this. Because it leads to the situation that this "coordinator channel" developes within 1 day to the new Battle-Net/GCI-channel because people are just lazy as hell and do not feel any need to tune the correct frequency.

Sorry Gentlemen, but besides all "gameplay"-ideas this is a simulation still! And one if the things really everybody should be able to manage is: use the radio of the aircraft you fly in the proper way like it is done in reallife. DCS is not meant to be a "game" for arcade-style players as of "jump-in-and-fly" and "jump-in-and-talk" kind. So - no - people shouldn't be able to talk this way.

Use Teamspeak for this things, but let the simulator be what it is: an aircraft simulator (and SRS is the addon what adds the aircraft radios in the reallife like proper way to all aircraft, not more and not less)!

 

(PS: Still more or less no crashes at all here. Maybe once in 2 weeks and I wouldn't blame that on SRS.)

 

 

+1:thumbup:

___________________________________________

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]

 

Looking forward to it, Belsimtek!:thumbup:

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...I personally do NOT wanna see this. Because it leads to the situation that this "coordinator channel" developes within 1 day to the new Battle-Net/GCI-channel because people are just lazy as hell and do not feel any need to tune the correct frequency.

Sorry Gentlemen, but besides all "gameplay"-ideas this is a simulation still! And one if the things really everybody should be able to manage is: use the radio of the aircraft you fly in the proper way like it is done in reallife. DCS is not meant to be a "game" for arcade-style players as of "jump-in-and-fly" and "jump-in-and-talk" kind. So - no - people shouldn't be able to talk this way.

Use Teamspeak for this things, but let the simulator be what it is: an aircraft simulator (and SRS is the addon what adds the aircraft radios in the reallife like proper way to all aircraft, not more and not less)!

 

(PS: Still more or less no crashes at all here. Maybe once in 2 weeks and I wouldn't blame that on SRS.)

True, true :thumbup:

[sIGPIC]Luftgangsta[/sIGPIC]

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