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Don't Think You Are Safe!


Johnny Dioxin (Brixmis)
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I've had my Rift for 3 months now, and the main activity in it has been flying sims.

 

The only discomfort I have felt was a little dizziness, when spinning fast (losing control) in a helicopter.

 

Last night, I was doing some tests in the Huey, when I decided to do some take-off and landing practice. First round went fine, but as I was landing the second time, easily under control of the helicopter, I suddenly felt really, really sick. I couldn't even sit in a jet after that - I had to take the headset off and felt groggy until I went to bed.

 

So, VR legs here, VR legs there - but when you think you have found them, don't for a second assume you are safe! :huh:

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This is one of the reasons I have held off buying myself.

 

I suffer from occasional vertigo, and while the rift is as expensive as it is, it is a lot of money to puke into a bucket :)

 

My experience using friends rifts has been good so far, so I am encourage,

 

I will take the plunge eventually, maybe the second cv release :)

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Same here. One reason why I am somewhat reluctant is because I occasionally experience vertigo. In real life flying it takes about an hour of circling thermals in a glider to get me sick, but I only need half an hour in some PC games.

Years ago it NEVER happened to me.

But it does now, since around the year 2010. Dunno why exactly. I feel sick after playing some FPS games very quickly, despite trying to use the usual tactics to avoid it (disable head-bopping and motion blur, enough light in the room, get some space between you and the screen, such things).

It hasn't happened in 3rd person games or flight sims (yet?), except in the first few weeks when I started using a TrackIR until I got used to it.

 

I would be SO angry to buy an expensive VR device and get sick. Bad resolution contributes to that, so I'll wait for the next generation.

 

I'd also like to have a VR glove or something (and no, no clunky Vive thingie that I can't use to grab my HOTAS), VR + mouse is meh IMO.

 

Oh, and last but not least: I am used to my touchscreens with Helios, I'd hate to ditch those...

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I don't normally suffer from vertigo or motion sickness, I have been flying two-seaters, abseiling, mountaineering etc without the slightest issue (before I became an invalid) not to mention many hours in helicopters.

 

That's the point I'm making - it still got me, doing nothing drastic at all.

 

I have also had that problem with some FPS games, though not for a few years now. I remember two that always made me feel sick were GRAW and GRAW 2. I was thinking it must have been the graphics engine or maybe a particular setting in the options. Weird, though, that it happened with certain games and not others that were similar, but different devs.

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When I first got my Rift CV1 (especially for the Huey, which I love flying) I really suffered beyond belief.

 

Any lateral Yaw movement, or any rocking from side to side on lift off, and I felt very sick.

 

I really panicked and thought I had wasted 3k on a new computer and Rift, only to be sick whenever I used it!

 

After about 2 months I am absolutely fine. It has to be said that I am mostly flying fixed wing in P3D using the excellent Fly Inside, but even when I go back to the Huey I am fine.

 

Another point is that the total immersion has also disappeared (my brain has realised that I am not in a helicopter, but that I am sitting at the computer), but it is still 1000% better than flat monitor flying.

 

@Brixmis don't panic!!! it was probably just an off day! The human body (psychology) is a very complex thing. The more we worry about things, the worse they get. For me, it was after going away on holiday for a few weeks, and then coming back to it, expecting to feel sick, so not worrying, that it all got better!

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Frame rates are critical. This is why ED and other developers MUST dedicate ample effort to improving their engine so that frame rates are always 90+ in VR.

 

VR is the future. Those developers who make every effort to accommodate the VR experience into their works will be rewarded in the years to come. Those who neglect it will only get to regret they did not when they fall by the wayside.

 

My personal experience from over two years of using VR (and having had several head injuries with long term side effects *recovered fully*) is that any VR induced disorientation felt is normally triggered by frame rate drops to levels significantly below the CV1's refresh rate of 90hz.

 

NB - FPS games are entirely different and can cause VRID for other reasons not related to frame rates.

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DCS Was designed for Fidelity not Frame Rates... :p

 

I Fly w/ a old GPU, Avgs 30-50 FPs, the only time I get anywhere near 90 is when Im flying a high CAP win the F-15, and I see nothing but Blue Skies..

 

I've never felt sick in VR, even with low FPS.

 

But Everyone is different, some users are more susceptible to motion sickness than others.

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When I first got my Rift CV1 (especially for the Huey, which I love flying) I really suffered beyond belief.

 

...

 

After about 2 months I am absolutely fine. It has to be said that I am mostly flying fixed wing in P3D using the excellent Fly Inside, but even when I go back to the Huey I am fine.

 

wait, what? You suffered for two MONTHS getting sick every time? :O

Holy cow!

I applaud your dedication! :)

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I've not had the dizzy, nauseous feeling since the first week I had the CV1 but the other day I ejected over 20k and was falling in the seat. I don't know what caused it but my brain said instant nausea and so it was lol.

 

On the FPS issue, I almost always have 45fps and it doesn't bother me. Where the 90FPS farce came from I don't know. Maybe early, untested info.

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I've not had the dizzy, nauseous feeling since the first week I had the CV1 but the other day I ejected over 20k and was falling in the seat. I don't know what caused it but my brain said instant nausea and so it was lol.

 

On the FPS issue, I almost always have 45fps and it doesn't bother me. Where the 90FPS farce came from I don't know. Maybe early, untested info.

 

It's VR technology. base simulation frame rates equal to or more than the VR HMD's refresh rate are desirable. When base frame rates are less than the HMD refresh rate there's always a risk if VRID to some users. While some may not consider it an issue, others may.

 

VRID Tip: Close your eyes and immediately stop the VR session. Rest and avoid movement until your brain recalibrates. There have been a few instances where I have had it, albeit rare. Stopping the VR session is the best thing I found to do. And yes, back when DCS had VR barely going it was a real puke-fest with the DK2...gutting it out also helps :joystick:

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I don't typically have a significant issue, but my wife does ... especially when doing a banking turn or driving down the PCH in PJ Cars, which is what also affects me a bit.

 

I have a motion rig coming and although I don't think it will be a panacea, I'm hoping it might help the brain to coordinate the movement with what the eyes see, and help somewhat.

 

I've asked if there's any benifit like that with a motion rig, but didn't get any feedback from current users of motion rigs, neither here in the motion platform thread nor on other motion rig forums, so I suspect it won't be much help (if any at all) as the main issue seems to be frame rate and each persons susceptibility to "VR sickness".

But if I do find it provides any relief at specific things, I'll post what I find.

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Ginger candy can help quite a bit for people who get nauseous. I never had issues. Then 5-6 years ago, I realized FPS would get me sick after 5-10 minutes. But I don't have any issues with CV1+DCS. When the frame rate dips for prolonged period, it may affect me. But for the most part, I'm good to go.

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I'd be surprised if any VR user hasn't experienced discomfort and a nauseous feeling at some point.

 

The key is to watch for symptoms, and cease as soon as they start. The only DCS based problems I have had any real issues with were the initial few flights in helicopters, and then, only when there were large oscillations or spins due to control loss.

 

Putting me in a go-cart in Project Cars however, and it is a whole different ball game!

 

The good news however is that you can acclimatize yourself to it by taking things slowly, and stepping away when you feel the onset of symptoms. The key is to spot them early, and don't try to overcome them. Just walk away, and take a break for a while.

 

There are of course some people who are far more susceptible, and so I'd recommend trying before buying. I am sure it won't be an option for the poor guys who do suffer severely.

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You might want to have a look at the simshaker project. Some people say that it helped them reducing the VR side effects .

I received mine just two days ago and it's a great addition to VR (and non-VR) flying in DCS even if I don't have the problem of getting motion sick easily.

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I can't see that as any help at all. Motion sickness is a result of disorientation, associated with what your eyes see, and your inner ear tells you and not whether or not you have your ass massaged.

The point is that your ass is massaged in a way that corresponds to what you see in your HMD. Hence less disorientation.


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One of problems is the eye movement reflex cant follow heli and ground objects moment.By lag and low fps. The sick is still a personal thing.

 

But unlike the fixed wings. Helis bob around. Cause too much eye reflex desynchroniz.Heli is the most challenge one.

When my eye fell tired or start twitching. I know i have to stop.

I try not play heli with VR too long. But i can fly any fixed wing entire day even at low fps.

 

And i have tried VR karting race with gamepad. That moment is dizze as hell. But after fews days. Im just get used to it( kind of).

 

Wear motion sickness bands, sea-band when playing VR.

Take a rest and give yourself a massage when fell uncomfortable.

 

If you get used to it slowly, someday you may get over it, at least it will not throw your lunch up.

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The point is that your ass is massaged in a way that corresponds to what you see in your HMD. Hence less disorientation.

 

So how does getting your ass massaged simulate the effects of G forces? Balance? Frankly, I think you are deluding yourself if you imagine vibrations caused by glorified loudspeakers will provide anything like the effects of centrifugal or gravitational forces you experience when your body is in motion, and feeling the effects of directional changes.

 

To suggest that any kind of vibrations would negate the feeling of spatial disorientation is bordering on the absurd, sorry if that offends you.

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Some say having a fan pointed at you helps with motion sickness when using VR.

 

I used to do that, but I found it has a bad side-effect of making me go half deaf, too! You know that pressure thing, where it feels like you have cotton wool in your ears? That's what a fan pointing at my face does. Even just for a minute, it will have me saying "Eh?" for a couple of days.

 

One of problems is the eye movement reflex cant follow heli and ground objects moment.By lag and low fps. The sick is still a personal thing.

 

But unlike the fixed wings. Helis bob around. Cause too much eye reflex desynchroniz.Heli is the most challenge one.

 

This is it of course, in this particular case, I strongly suspect.

 

Last night I was back into the Rift in fixed and rotary winged modules and no issues at all.

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So how does getting your ass massaged simulate the effects of G forces? Balance? [...]

Of course, it does not give you the actual forces but it makes you feel how many Gs you are pulling, whether you are close to a stall and if you are turning left or right etc. The experience is far away from RL but it might just be enough to guide your brain in the right direction.

 

To suggest that any kind of vibrations would negate the feeling of spatial disorientation is bordering on the absurd, sorry if that offends you.

Again, I'm not suffering that problem so I cannot say if it really helps. But I would not be as surprised as you if it did ;) And apparently it did help some people - negating that seems a little absurd to me. Personally, I'm using it because there are a lot of cool effects modelled and it increases immersion yet another notch.

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