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A-10C Gun Questions


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Hi everyone, I've been flying the A-10C a lot, but haven't tried to use the gun much until now, and I have a few questions about it and its capabilities.

 

Q1: What is the optimal angle of attack for a gun run on a BTR, APC, LAV, etc?

 

Q2: What is the optimal range for attacking various targets (range to start shooting, range to stop shooting)

 

Q3: How many rounds should I be firing at various targets?


Edited by LvL
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You're going to want to look at the 476th Combat Aircraft Fundamentals book starting on page 162 (175 in the pdf). It will answer all three of your questions. Find it here: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=165469

 

To answer your questions directly:

 

1. There are attack profiles for less than 15 degrees and there are attack profiles for greater than 30 degrees. I'd say the max I've done a gun delivery is about 50 degrees. In other words, there's a wide range! If you're shooting something on a hillside, you could even be straight level, but most of the time I'd say I'm between 10 degrees and 45 degrees. (EDIT: By the way, AoA, or Angle of Attack, has to do with the angle between the relative wind and your wings. This is different from dive angle, which has to do with your direction of travel relative to the horizon.)

 

2. For most tanks, I shoot at .6 nautical miles (~3500 ft) in a 2 second burst (say "one thousand one, one thousand two" or "one potato, two potato" in your head while you hold the trigger down). The 476th book states that you should shoot at 3000ft slant range and stop firing at 2000ft slant range. On softer targets, you can fire at greater range. I have definitely taken 1.5 nm shots on trucks, and the 476th book defines very long range shots as 10,000 ft (1.6 nm) and beyond.

 

3. Around 150 rounds per target. I don't believe there's a rule that you should fire more rounds on tanks and less rounds on soft targets, even though you can get away with it in DCS. It has to do with the CEP of the gun and ensuring that enough rounds are put downrange to ensure hit probability.


Edited by Xavven
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Thanks for the quick replies guys! Thanks especially to Xavven for that very informative post :). Yes, I know what the AoA is, I just didnt know how to describe it any other way... Now that I've thought of it, I also have a question about rockets!

 

How do I kill armor with rockets!? I have MK5 rockets or HEAT, run in on the target, hit the rockets within a reasonable margin, explosions right on target, but after pulling up and assesing the target, it's undamaged! Am I doing something wrong?

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How do I kill armor with rockets!? I have MK5 rockets or HEAT, run in on the target, hit the rockets within a reasonable margin, explosions right on target, but after pulling up and assesing the target, it's undamaged! Am I doing something wrong?

 

I have the same problem. I am not accurate at all with rockets, so I can't get reliable tank kills with them. I can't comment on the realism, because there are plenty of pilot-errors than can cause your rocket shots to be inaccurate, and I'm not good enough to say whether the sim models them poorly or if I need more practice.

 

What I have read on these forums is that the M151 rockets are area effect weapons, great for killing soft targets and infantry, so the spread is actually helpful.

 

In my experience, the MK5 on the other hand needs a direct hit to do anything to a tank, and I need more than a few of them to achieve a kill. As a result, the spread is detrimental. I almost never take MK5s on a mission, but I do take M151s when I expect infantry.

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Ok, thanks for the heads up!

 

(Hopefully) One more question. With the AGM-65H, why does it seem that it locks at such a short range? I could only get it to lock on when the target was 4 miles away, when the D variant locks easily from 7 miles most of the time. However, during one mission, I couldn't get a lock on any targets at all from about 6 miles away with the AGM-65D. Am I not getting something?


Edited by LvL
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Ok, thanks for the heads up!

 

(Hopefully) One more question. With the AGM-65H, why does it seem that it locks at such a short range? I could only get it to lock on when the target was 4 miles away, when the D variant locks easily from 7 miles most of the time. However, during one mission, I couldn't get a lock on any targets at all from about 6 miles away with the AGM-65D. Am I not getting something?

 

same here

 

sometimes - it seems - slewing the gate off an on again helps, but not consistent

 

locking the gate repeatedly also inconsistent

 

in very clear contrast AGM-65H has the more reliable lock

sunrise sunset low contrast night, AGM-65D has a way better lock

 

but on in all, inconsistent

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I also seem to achieve lock with the AGM-65D from greater range than the AGM-65H in broad daylight. The H model IRL apparently is better than the D, though, so I guess DCS messed up?

 

 

Also...

 

Be aware that force correlate is not modeled realistically in DCS. IRL force correlate is very inaccurate, to the point of not being able to hit a 20ft tall building reliably. DCS turns it into a perfect-accuracy sniper rifle from 10 nm away. I won't judge you if you use it, but just FYI they're not used that way ;)

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Very short bursts naturally work best to concentrate fire.
Not really.

 

How do I kill armor with rockets!? I have MK5 rockets or HEAT, run in on the target, hit the rockets within a reasonable margin, explosions right on target, but after pulling up and assesing the target, it's undamaged! Am I doing something wrong?
Rockets should be used as area of effect weapons, don't try and hit single targets with them.

 

High dive angles help a lot with the dispersion though.

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Ok, thanks for the heads up!

 

(Hopefully) One more question. With the AGM-65H, why does it seem that it locks at such a short range? I could only get it to lock on when the target was 4 miles away, when the D variant locks easily from 7 miles most of the time. However, during one mission, I couldn't get a lock on any targets at all from about 6 miles away with the AGM-65D. Am I not getting something?

 

I just read a book called Viper Pilot, by a guy who flew F-16CJs in Iraq, and he talked about how much better the H was than the earlier variants. Crystal clear seeker picture and easier to lock.

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In the sim, as opposed to RL, the rockets have very limited use. The lack of a true Area-Of-Effect model severely limits their usefulness.

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So Gliptal, what do you mean saying that they should be used as area of effect weapons? Where the enemy vehicles are very close together? If so, when would this scenario occur?
Examples may be soft tagets in a convoy, clumped vehicles in CPs, infantry squads, or busy landing pads.
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Is very simple.TGP in Area, aims at the base of the enemy vehicle,

create SPI,

China hat forward long,

After,in the Maverick page just move the "Boat switch" in side position (forward or backward), then bring it back to the center position, and after a few seconds press "TMS up short"

....BOW DOWN TO NONE....

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RE the cannon:

1. In the interest of penetration you want low angle or high angle. Medium angles are inferior to both. High angles are unfortunately with close ranges. Tank busting is Low Angle Strafe (LAS) profile of ~5 degrees. That being said against light armor (BMP or less) the requirement for penetration is not a factor.

 

2. Against soft or light armor targets 2.0nm should be suitably close with closer being acceptable at your discretion. Practicing "chicken shoots" against ZSU-23-4s is valuable. Fly in PAC-1 closing on a Shilka and fire when you see it fire (~2nm and break away before being hit. You should win and kill it with ~50 rounds every time without a scratch.

 

Tank targets (T-55 and better) suggests a 0.7nm open fire and a 0.5nm cease fire in LAS from the rear quarter for a likely kill. Fires out to 1.0nm can damage most tanks to make closer hits safer. Outside 1nm or from the front are wastes of ammunition.

 

Area targets can be engaged out to 3.0nm especially with HEI but much beyond this is ill-advised.

 

3. Nominally 100 rounds, perhaps as little as 50 (close, precision, soft) or as much as 200 (far, area, harder). For MBT attacks the rounds expended are determined by the opening and cease fire ranges.

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Not about the A10 but read this article on unguided rockets in the Kamov and the "flashlight principle".

 

http://www.simhq.com/_air14/air_508b.html

 

According to this a steeper dive will give greater accuracy on the longitudinal axis. Dispersion on the GAU shouldn't be as great as with unguided rockets but the principle still applies.

 

 

It makes sense that a steeper dive angle would concentrate rockets more after reading that, thanks for that!

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