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Igla/Stinger manpad AI question


JACN
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Hi,

 

Is going to be in BS a review of this guys AI?. I think they´re unrealistic lethal at night or under poor weather/illumination encounters.

 

They react in the same time and with the same marksmanship as in daylight...seem to have attached a man-portable-radar. I think it should be really really harder to have a nightlight lock on a jet (or a 2-3 thousand meters away tree semi-hidden chopper;) ) when you cannot see it and hardly see the guy is few meters away from you. It´d be as difficult as having a lock at the same jet (or chopper) in daylight....but with a bandage in your eyes!. Only target´s own flares or a near radar unit could update its position.

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They also fire head-on at max possible range, instead of waiting till plane passes and so they can lock on its heat trail.

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They also fire head-on at max possible range, instead of waiting till plane passes and so they can lock on its heat trail.

 

Um, when you have all-aspect missiles at your disposal, why just limit yourself to a rear-aspect shot? Against fast CAS aircraft (i.e. NOT the A-10/Su-25), your missile-employment zone is TINY in the rear-aspect - the odds heavily favour the target defeating your missile kinematically.

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Guest IguanaKing

Well NVGs, although inferior from a resolution standpoint, actually give the eye less to work through in perceiving movement. If its a jet on the deck, he's going to be noticed in plenty of time for a high-PK missile shot. Don't forget, also, that Dog Ear radar can actually network with Strela 10s and tell them where to point. They can't guide the missile, but they can put the SAM operator on-target that much quicker. If ED adds the StarStreak to this game...anyone on the side opposing it is going to have a tough time living.

 

Edit: Doh...sorry...I got my UK missiles all screwed up in my head. OK...edit completed.

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Well NVGs, although inferior from a resolution standpoint, actually give the eye less to work through in perceiving movement. If its a jet on the deck, he's going to be noticed in plenty of time for a high-PK missile shot. Don't forget, also, that Dog Ear radar can actually network with Strela 10s and tell them where to point. They can't guide the missile, but they can put the SAM operator on-target that much quicker. If ED adds the StarStreak to this game...anyone on the side opposing it is going to have a tough time living.

 

I think nightlight shots PK (also day ones) is highly affected by the level of technology within reach of manpad users (nvg, radar,and...phone cells...yes). I think all of this could be easily used by a top qualified army...but I was talking about the fierce looking guys ED show us in their last update...:smilewink: . Flamming Cliffs campaign mission#10 (don´t remember exactly) is a good example of it: 1 su25t flying low at night to bring down a house plenty of bad boys. Once you (silent) reach them, pop up and start locking the target...fooom....fooooom two iglas at your 12. They shoot their manpad faster than you can say "ouch!":doh: ...no matter where direction you were closing in.

 

I do think it´s quite unrealistic, and ED should choose between scale their skill in wide steps (according with technology resources) such as in level 1 nightlight shots should be always neglected...or impose a HUGE loss of PK in low visibility shots.

 

My 2 cents,

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I do think it´s quite unrealistic, and ED should choose between scale their skill in wide steps (according with technology resources) such as in level 1 nightlight shots should be always neglected...or impose a HUGE loss of PK in low visibility shots.

 

Well, in LOMAC, you can't "force" a missile to have a lower PK because of AI skill level. What you can do is make the AI take shots in a less desirable portion of its missile employment zone, like close to Rmax/Rmin.

 

Anyway, I think for the MANPAD guys they should be programmed to cover only a 90 (or even 180) degree arc of coverage in front of them, rather than the 360 degree omni-coverage they have now.

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Guest IguanaKing
I think nightlight shots PK (also day ones) is highly affected by the level of technology within reach of manpad users (nvg, radar,and...phone cells...yes). I think all of this could be easily used by a top qualified army...but I was talking about the fierce looking guys ED show us in their last update...:smilewink: . Flamming Cliffs campaign mission#10 (don´t remember exactly) is a good example of it: 1 su25t flying low at night to bring down a house plenty of bad boys. Once you (silent) reach them, pop up and start locking the target...fooom....fooooom two iglas at your 12. They shoot their manpad faster than you can say "ouch!":doh: ...no matter where direction you were closing in.

 

I do think it´s quite unrealistic, and ED should choose between scale their skill in wide steps (according with technology resources) such as in level 1 nightlight shots should be always neglected...or impose a HUGE loss of PK in low visibility shots.

 

My 2 cents,

 

Most of the air defenders you see in those screen shots are quite well equipped. Those who are not as well-equipped, in today's world, actually usually have greater operational experience...so its a toss-up within weapon limits. Want to know how to avoid MANPADs? That's easy...just stay above their engagement altitude and they can't touch you. ;) The problem with Iglas is that you don't actually know how long their operators have been aware of your presence, so we can't really say if their awareness is instantaneous or not.

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Night shots (=blind shots) effectiveness is my main complain. No aimed shot should be made at night without the help of NVG or radar...just this...at least not with the actual high level of effectiveness compared with day shots (1-1).

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NVGs = much smaller FOV and degraded visual clarity for one. It doesn't matter if a MANPADS guy is operating with NVGs or not - they shouldn't behave/engage at night as if in the day.

 

They should have a lot more trouble scanning for targets, and their tallys should take place much later, which would in turn reduce their PK because the aspect of the target becomes exponentially more unfavourable as range decreases for a MANPADS shot. For example, a head-on target becomes a crossing, shooting up at the belly target, or an off-aspect target eventually becomes a crossing target.

 

No matter which way you look at it, NVGs or not, MANPADS should be much, much more effective during the day.

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