Operation "Blue Flag" - 24/7 PvP Campaign - ROUND 8

[VentZer0]

War ain't fair ;)

Seriously though, its hard to balance, as reds are multiple time zones away

 

Yes it is easy. Stop Blue from accepting any further players. I am getting sick of this stacking.

*joins*

*sees numbers*

*types blue anyways*

[Etherlight]

Yup, we're all waiting for ED to fix the missiles. But that doesn't matter too much in a mostly PvE environment like Blueflag. Next time we could make it full PvE so everybody's in on the fun. :) Other than that if you want to fly RED I suggest evening times for GMT, the teams are somewhat more even at those times and you may even spot a slight numbers advantage for RED if you're lucky. Be quick tho, from the player number development we'll be stuck in the maykop/krasnodar cluster**** zone in a few hours or a day, which significantly decreases the amount of fun to be had.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Etherlight

[M0ltar]

Thanks! This is the right attitude.

And as it was said, yes all missiles are broken.

 

 

Regarding the time you flight is get's a little bit even specially on 18:00 EU that is when red usually is maybe 6 players down in US prime time.. is like this:

 

 

I have looked plenty of times and seen red outnumber blue. Now this does not happen on a full server, but there are plenty of times that are not prime time that I have seen opfor with more players. I guess now I need to remember to take screenshots.

 

Saying that, yes blue heavily outnumbers red. Again, I really think this is due to air frame chooses that are available. Also, in before someone says, well players need to learn to fly something else. Yes, that would be cool, but no everyone is like the players that want to do this. Some people want to only fly 1 or 2 things and that is it. Furthermore, you can't really balance something that is totally dependent on what modules people own. The guys at buddyspike have repeatedly said that they do not want to do any type of balancing.

 

I can safely say I would fly red if they had the A10C.

Edited August 1, 2016 by M0ltar

[Weedwacker]

 

When will there be SOME FORM of balancing.

 

 

LOL, I love this community

[microvax]

Wow, let's just assume all Redfor Ka-50 pilots are incompetent due to a feature none of us asked for, and found this nice surprise while playing. All I hear from you is mimi mimi... Apparently your 5 to 1 odds aren't enough for you

 

You also didn't put any thought into giving the Mi-8 this ability did you? Yes, please change it so the Mi-8 can do bombing runs, so I can obliterate all, and capture.

 

Muh spider senses are tingling and are crying hyperbole but I am trying to answer reasonably anyway.

 

Dunno if any of my phrasing is easily misunderstood due to english not beeing my mother tongue or me just using wording that is differently interpreted by other people. Would both not be the first time that happend to me. x)

 

I dont assume all redfor ka50 pilots are incapable. And I would never assume they are due to a feature added for them. :D I based my statement about a high percentage of incapable ka50 pilots on my experience with them during round 6 and 7. At the same time I would NOT rate the percentage of incapable A10c pilots higher, nor lower. Both are counting towards the more complex modules. And either people cant handle that, cant be bothered to read the manual or are just lacking the experience.

 

Its plain wrong that nobody asked for it. I know it was a ridiculous minority which asked for the intel menu on KA50s. Thats why I am even more confused why it got added.

 

To come to the point of my original post considering the addition of this feature. I did not claim nor want to claim that redfor asked for it or was in need for it. I just wanted to state why I think its an bad choice.

 

To make a tl;dr out of it. We agree that some kind of similarity in capability between opposing sides frames is something desirable.

 

The Ka50 is a helicopter purely developed as a combat machine, trimmed to operation by one crew and has weapons systems specifically engineered for the job.

The Gazelle is a civil helicopter tailored to two crew operation, with some originally not even intended for air to ground use weapon systems strapped onto it and declared a military vehicle.

 

So we have the complete opposite of "some kind of similarity in capability" here.

The Gazelle got the intel menu due to its scout helicopter type of flavour and probably to even the ground with the KA50 a bit.

And as I did state before, I think by that "some kind of similarity in capability" was achieved.

While not comparable in performance you could achieve similar results in the department of dealing damage to an asset. That is what I mean, not more, not less.

 

Adding the 342s main feature in terms of offensive capability against assets to the Ka50 as well is just beyond me. I neither see the need, nor do I get the reason.

That is the whole of my standpoint I strafed to phrase in my last post.

 

After all it doesnt limit the fun I have, honestly you could give me an H34 and I would probably have equal the amount of fun flying it. I dont think "some kind of similarity in capability" is a necessity. But since the biggest part of forum active users seems to be for that, I am applying that set of rules, by which the intel menu addition to the ka50 makes as much sense as giving more powerfull BVR weapons to the f15 without changing the su27 loadout or countering m2k with mig21s. Not at all.

For the numbers, I dont find it enjoyable either. I did choose blue because the people I like to fly with are on blue. I have the time, technically I could just hop into a gazelle, bomb the shit out of everything while nearly no reds are online, have some random arse failing uh1 pilot bring troops and just bring the round to an end. I will not, thats not fun, if I want to do that, I do setup a mission in singleplayer for that experience I do not need blueflag. :D Also I am annoyed by the people on blue which leave if their side is in the minority. Like wtf why.

I dont get why you would leave if your side is already in the minority. :D

 

On that subject:

[ame]

[/ame] )))

 

 

And while the ka50 change confuses me, I am still convinced of pilot > equipment.

So none of the mimimi you interpreted is actually present.

 

Well I did put thought into the MI8 part, AFAIK one can put different CTLD option for different unit groups. So put 2 mi8 as task transport with no intel menue and 2 mi8 as task CAS with the intel menu. Done.

Imho the mi8 is still by miles a better helicopter then the gazelle but thats up for debate. :D

 

So yea, hope I could clarify my standpoint. I will probably not answer any further hyperbolic interpretations of my posts, unless I am in the mood for a mud fight so be advised. :D

 

Same now. We got nalchik beslan and mozdok. I wanted to fly today around this time, point is why should I fly if its 12vs2. I do not see the point in joining 12 people stomping 2 others.

No fun here either.

And I agree with Moltar, I think the amount of recent modules on bluefor is a factor.

And as I said to reaper yesterday, I will prob join Red on the next round if the same setup is present. I am missing both Mi8 and Ka50.

[Disclaimer: If Viggen is released i will be blue. Viggen > everything. :DD]

[Enduro14]

Here's something and yes I am one that asked for it for ka50 or mi8 as I think all rotor wing should have the ability. Will it make us a more hunted tgt yes and sorry the way I think and look at things is comparative to what I do for a day job. So realistically everybody with a radio could call in Airstrikes yes..... Understand the fairness police will kick in here hence why rotor wing or those trainer aircraft makes more sense I. The blue flag scenario. At least it does in my mind.

Really dont know what the complaint is as one man used the feature last night and I believe no bombers where successful? Good job shooting them down. Sorry some had to take a break from Air Quake.

 

I think it's a great feature brings about a more dynamic sandbox battlefield and isn't that the goal of Dcs World?

[D4n]

I can safely say I would fly red if they had the A10C.

 

The Su-25T is better... :) (one example: easier to fly/manage!)

[Etherlight]

I have looked plenty of times and seen red outnumber blue. Now this does not happen on a full server, but there are plenty of times that are not prime time that I have seen opfor with more players. I guess now I need to remember to take screenshots.

 

Saying that, yes blue heavily outnumbers red. Again, I really think this is due to air frame chooses that are available. Also, in before someone says, well players need to learn to fly something else. Yes, that would be cool, but no everyone is like the players that want to do this. Some people want to only fly 1 or 2 things and that is it. Furthermore, you can't really balance something that is totally dependent on what modules people own. The guys at buddyspike have repeatedly said that they do not want to do any type of balancing.

 

I can safely say I would fly red if they had the A10C.

 

While that kind of thought (willingness to join RED) is admirable and certainly true for you and a few others, I call bullshit on different aircraft-sets being the main reason for the slanted numbers to be honest. Let's remember round 6, when Blue and Red both had the Gazelle, the Huey, the Mi-8, the Ka-50, the Su-25T, the A-10C and the Mirage. The numbers were still completely onesided, that's why that crapfest was over in in a heartbeat. The truth is that people like to win and they like to win hard even more. Add to that the fact that there are some weird politics going around in the brain of some people and you get another reason why that occurs. People have been screamed at for being "unamerican" for joining Red for crying out loud. That is a level of retard I cannot even comprehend. We have all seen the nato fanboyism that goes around in this community, which is, to be frank, creeping me out.

 

I just want to remind people that this is a game and sportsmanship should play a part in all of this. There is a reason why I joined Red after playing Blue in the test round. I would love to fly the Gazelle and the A-10C and the Mirage right now, I really would. But if I wanted to fly them in a PvE scenario I would just host a mission with my friends, I do not need Blueflag for that. I accept that the BS-Team will not enforce balance, I don't want to kick off that discussion again but that does not, at least to me, mean that balancing this event is not an issue the community itself can fix. You cannot do anything about lonewolves/newbies/randoms joining the stacked team. But I would expect better from the older guys, the ones involved in the community, the organised squadrons and groups. If even they can't bring themselves to take some responsibility for creating a fun and challenging environment, then we can just stop giving a **** about it altogether to be honest.

Just to be clear: I do not talk about anyone in particular, so no need for anyone to feel personally attacked, but that is my observation.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Etherlight

[gregzagk]

Same posts about balance on each round, on Monday mornings :D

And then Reds win :lol:

 

Yes it's the Blue side rush hour. It's not about the total number of Red and Blue players registered. It's about Blue players being available at these hours these days.

 

Fight back with what you have. Reds got the advantage in the front during the previous days. Probably will do this again in the next or maybe they lose.

This is the nature of Blue Flag.

 

Greg

[microvax]

Here's something and yes I am one that asked for it for ka50 or mi8 as I think all rotor wing should have the ability. Will it make us a more hunted tgt yes and sorry the way I think and look at things is comparative to what I do for a day job. So realistically everybody with a radio could call in Airstrikes yes..... Understand the fairness police will kick in here hence why rotor wing or those trainer aircraft makes more sense I. The blue flag scenario. At least it does in my mind.

Really dont know what the complaint is as one man used the feature last night and I believe no bombers where successful? Good job shooting them down. Sorry some had to take a break from Air Quake.

 

I think it's a great feature brings about a more dynamic sandbox battlefield and isn't that the goal of Dcs World?

 

Agreed, everything with a radio could get some features like artillery barage and or bomber.

On the same page we could get higher end SAMs. Would like it but its really up to waht the blueflag team has time for. :D :))

 

 

Same posts about balance on each round, on Monday mornings :D

And then Reds win :lol:

 

Yes it's the Blue side rush hour. It's not about the total number of Red and Blue players registered. It's about Blue players being available at these hours these days.

 

Fight back with what you have. Reds got the advantage in the front during the previous days. Probably will do this again in the next or maybe they lose.

This is the nature of Blue Flag.

 

Greg

yup

[VentZer0]

Same posts about balance on each round, on Monday mornings :D

And then Reds win :lol:

 

Yes it's the Blue side rush hour. It's not about the total number of Red and Blue players registered. It's about Blue players being available at these hours these days.

 

Fight back with what you have. Reds got the advantage in the front during the previous days. Probably will do this again in the next or maybe they lose.

This is the nature of Blue Flag.

 

Greg

 

Blue seems to be available during the entire 24hrs.

Of course it is not the registered ones. BUT put an end to people joining blue while red is heavily outnumbered.

People join, they see the number difference, and type blue.

 

"Fight back with what you have." 4:1 odds are ridiculous. At some point there is no use to fight back and if you have nothing theres nothing you can fight back with. Red has been outnumbered from the get go. The round started with 18 vs 36.

[gregzagk]

Blue seems to be available during the entire 24hrs.

Of course it is not the registered ones. BUT put an end to people joining blue while red is heavily outnumbered.

People join, they see the number difference, and type blue.

 

"Fight back with what you have." 4:1 odds are ridiculous. At some point there is no use to fight back and if you have nothing theres nothing you can fight back with. Red has been outnumbered from the get go. The round started with 18 vs 36.

 

Please check again previous rounds threads. Especially the ones that red won at the end. Also I don't know where you get the numbers from. Some hours cannot represent the 3 days picture.

 

Greg

[Hansdampf]

Personally I don’t mind unbalanced teams and I don’t think it’s worth complaining about it. We saw this weekend that it is possible to fight back being reasonably outnumbered (something like 30 vs 15 or even 30 vs 10). There are times red has this advantage, at other times blue has it. When the smaller team is well organized and focusses on defending it is still a tough challenge for the bigger team.

 

Some smart man mentioned in an earlier blueflag-thread that these moments of imbalance actually lead to the dynamics of this event and I totally agree with that. If teams were permanently balanced 1:1 the whole campaign would be a rather boring stalemate. I think it is all fine as long as in average each team has a primetime where it holds the advantage… Unfortunately, since all the fancy new modules are on the blue side, it seems like the red primetime shrunk significantly (though it is hard to tell after the first weekend. Things might still change as they did in the past! I hope so, because I really like the whole Nato-vs-Soviets concept!)

 

I think the real issues here are the times when the whole exciting PvP-event is turned into a rather dull coop-mission (when teams are like 40 vs 5 or 10 vs 0). It is just silly that one team (no matter which team!) can conquer half of the map without any significant opposition. In the past I remember there were some attempts by the buddyspike team to introduce some mechanics to prevent this from happening but unfortunately they never worked out. I hope one day there will be a working solution for this.

[microvax]

Personally I don’t mind unbalanced teams and I don’t think it’s worth complaining about it. We saw this weekend that it is possible to fight back being reasonably outnumbered (something like 30 vs 15 or even 30 vs 10). There are times red has this advantage, at other times blue has it. When the smaller team is well organized and focusses on defending it is still a tough challenge for the bigger team.

 

Some smart man mentioned in an earlier blueflag-thread that these moments of imbalance actually lead to the dynamics of this event and I totally agree with that. If teams were permanently balanced 1:1 the whole campaign would be a rather boring stalemate. I think it is all fine as long as in average each team has a primetime where it holds the advantage… Unfortunately, since all the fancy new modules are on the blue side, it seems like the red primetime shrunk significantly (though it is hard to tell after the first weekend. Things might still change as they did in the past! I hope so, because I really like the whole Nato-vs-Soviets concept!)

 

I think the real issues here are the times when the whole exciting PvP-event is turned into a rather dull coop-mission (when teams are like 40 vs 5 or 10 vs 0). It is just silly that one team (no matter which team!) can conquer half of the map without any significant opposition. In the past I remember there were some attempts by the buddyspike team to introduce some mechanics to prevent this from happening but unfortunately they never worked out. I hope one day there will be a working solution for this.

 

+1

[Reaper6]

Can we remove the bomber intel from the choppers and leave it to the L39/Hawk.

 

A single Ka50 can now take down a whole base. It is impossible to find them when they land.

 

A single KA50 doesnt need a bomber to take out a bluefor base. So only Bluefor should have the ability to use bombers? It's not like Bluefor has a 3 to 1 advantage or anything...

 

Reaper6

[Reaper6]

Was it intended Red gets choppers at sochi? If so can blue get them at Beslan,Nalchik, or maykop?

 

Red doesn't get choppers at Sochi, look at the "choose slot" screen!

 

Reaper6

[Reaper6]

So much salt from Bluefor on this forum. If you spent this much energy taking our bases you would have won buy now! Why is everyone so worried about what the KA50 does or doesn't do? The people of BuddySpike have done an exceptional job with this event. So if you dont like the way it is, maybe you need to find a different server.

 

Reaper6

[Beeroshima]

So much salt from Bluefor on this forum. If you spent this much energy taking our bases you would have won buy now! Why is everyone so worried about what the KA50 does or doesn't do? The people of BuddySpike have done an exceptional job with this event. So if you dont like the way it is, maybe you need to find a different server.

 

Reaper6

"How dare you guys discuss the server on the server discussion thread!"

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

[Enduro14]

So much salt from Bluefor on this forum. If you spent this much energy taking our bases you would have won buy now! Why is everyone so worried about what the KA50 does or doesn't do? The people of BuddySpike have done an exceptional job with this event. So if you dont like the way it is, maybe you need to find a different server.

 

Reaper6

 

FACT! Well said as, they say competition brings the best out of people........

[Panhead]

have some random arse failing uh1 pilot bring troops

i don't like you any more :mad:

[Reaper6]

"How dare you guys discuss the server on the server discussion thread!"

 

Sent while I should be working instead.

 

There is a difference between a "discussion" and just complaining that Bluefor is being treated unfairly!

 

Reaper6

[Enduro14]

REAPER, IRENE IRENE IRENE

[Jman]

There is a difference between a "discussion" and just complaining that Bluefor is being treated unfairly!

 

Reaper6

 

This is a joke right? Lol the constant saltiness is normal during the rounds (even during testing) from both sides.

[NaCH]

3 PM Berlin time

 

[Reaper6]

This is a joke right? Lol the constant saltiness is normal during the rounds (even during testing) from both sides.

 

Well I'm just not sure why so many people have camplaints about what the KA50 can and can't do. Attack Helicopters are made to hide and attack, so if Bluefor can't find them how is that our problem? Attack Helicopters aren't able to call in Bombers IRL while hiding?

 

Reaper6