TM Warthog burned! What to replace

[Rabso]

So fire started on my living room and it burned almost everything, that including my Surface Pro, TM Warthog stick (the throttle is ok but all the hats and plastic button milted from heat), TrackIR and screen :cry:

 

The fire did not reach my PC but it was too dirty (firemen sink it with what they have:mad:) and I have cleaned it well, it's working ok except the hard drive was damaged.

 

So back to TM warthog, here how it became (I guess no one ever tested them with fire :megalol:, here is the results):

 

 

 

 

Some materials could not sustain the high temperature.

 

So I need to rebuild now my DCS tools again and I have two options:

1. Buying again TM Warthog (I really enjoy it specially with DCS A-10C and I am waiting the 10cm extensions from MFG soon).

2. Go for VKB Gladiator Pro.

 

Now I like Warthog as it's with a lot buttons and it's plug-and-play with A-10C. I know Gladiator Pro is better Gimbal but it's WWII style and not sure when (IF) they will do modern fighters Grips, also there is not throttles.

 

What do you suggest guys?

[dburne]

Wow, sorry to hear about the bad luck.

 

At this current time, I would go with another Warthog since you like it. If the Gunfighter was out from VKB I might suggest different, but do not have a release date yet. Maybe later in the year.

I would suggest getting an extension though, it really helps. Even the shorter 7.5cm extension I have made a nice difference.

 

I also plan on taking a hard look at the Gunfighter when it is released.

Edited July 18, 2016 by dburne

[Sokol1_br]

Buy another Warthog - VKB Gladiator or PRO or Gunfighter is not best suitable for jets (few buttons).

 

And you can buy a Gladiator PRO or Gunfighter latter to use as replacement base (with better gimbal) for Warthog grip.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

What do you suggest guys?

That looks horrid ~

My suggestion would be the VKB; better gimbal, better aesthetics.

The grip is plastic, but personally I don't regard this as an issue.

I'm glad the bulky Warthog left my table, not to mention the re-greasing part of it.

Edited July 18, 2016 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[hansangb]

Dang...sorry to hear about your troubles. One more thing...if you go with VKB you have to map everything yourself. It won't be plug and play like TM. So that's another point you have to consider. If you have some time,check out the thread by hegykc (F18 Grip...) Looks like he's getting closer to producing some products.

[Rabso]

Wow, sorry to hear about the bad luck.

 

At this current time, I would go with another Warthog since you like it. If the Gunfighter was out from VKB I might suggest different, but do not have a release date yet. Maybe later in the year.

I would suggest getting an extension though, it really helps. Even the shorter 7.5cm extension I have made a nice difference.

 

I also plan on taking a hard look at the Gunfighter when it is released.

 

My 10cm extension will be shipped from MFG with my Crosswind end of this month. The Gunfighter looks amazing but the grip still not meet modern jets.

 

I guess am going with TM Warthog again and I really have hope that someone will do a better Gimbal for Warthog. hegykc already mentioned about "A bolt-on replacement gimbal for the Warthog". hope it means something good.

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2845237&postcount=1143

 

 

Buy another Warthog - VKB Gladiator or PRO or Gunfighter is not best suitable for jets.

 

And you can buy a Gladiator PRO or Gunfighter latter to use as replacement base (with better gimbal) for Warthog grip.

This is what in my head now!

 

That looks horrid ~

My suggestion would be the VKB; better gimbal, better aesthetics.

The grip is plastic, but personally I don't regard this as an issue.

I'm glad the bulky Warthog left my table, not to mention the re-greasing part of it.

 

it's better gimbal and plastic thing is not big issue, I can go with Pro witch is metal grip. However, still it's a WWII style and I like more modern styles. I do fly FSX too which need a lot of buttons.

 

Dang...sorry to hear about your troubles. One more thing...if you go with VKB you have to map everything yourself. It won't be plug and play like TM. So that's another point you have to consider. If you have some time,check out the thread by hegykc (F18 Grip...) Looks like he's getting closer to producing some products.

Yes I am following hegykc topic and hope he release things soon.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

It's better gimbal and plastic thing is not big issue, I can go with Pro witch is metal grip. However, still it's a WWII style and I like more modern styles. I do fly FSX too which need a lot of buttons.

I'll take that metal gimbal over a plastic one any time.

I fly modern (L-39C/ZA, MiG-15Bis, F-5E) with the KG grip as well and it doesn't bother me (MiG-15Bis grip is actually modelled after KG).

I disliked the stick-slip effect of my Warthog (even after re-greasing); the VKB feels so much smoother (less "springy" too) and handling feels more precise.

There are quite a bit of buttons on the KG grip, and mapping is done once. The mapping process makes you more aware of what you're actually pressing.

Also refer to this thread; http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168257.

Edited July 19, 2016 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Rabso]

I'll take that metal gimbal over a plastic one any time.

I fly modern (L-39C/ZA, MiG-15Bis, F-5E) with the KG grip as well and it doesn't bother me (MiG-15Bis grip is actually modelled after KG).

I disliked the stick-slip effect of my Warthog (even after re-greasing); the VKB feels so much smoother (less "springy" too) and handling feels more precise.

There are quite a bit of buttons on the KG grip, and mapping is done once. The mapping process makes you more aware of what you're actually pressing.

Also refer to this thread; http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=168257.

 

I guess now I have reason to stay with Warthog, check this:

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2847072&postcount=1162

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

I guess now I have reason to stay with Warthog

Your decision ultimately, but I'd hate to shed out $200-300 again for a product that I know needs further modding and greasing to make it work the way I want it.

Not to mention the aesthetics part; it looks like a Frankenbuild :cry: My guess is you already knew what you wanted before you started this thread, no?

Edited July 20, 2016 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Rabso]

Your decision ultimately, but I'd hate to shed out $200-300 again for a product that I know needs further modding and greasing to make it work the way I want it.

Not to mention the aesthetics part; it looks like a Frankenbuild :cry: My guess is you already knew what you wanted before you started this thread, no?

 

no not a full sure yet,

 

Warthog but bad gimbal

or

VKB but empty buttons grip

 

If the gimbal issue solved then am going to warthog, if VKB produced modern grip (very soon) then going for VKB. I guess am going to wait around 2 months and see

 

1+ for warthog that is the throttle.

[Sokol1_br]

if VKB produced modern grip (very soon)

 

Realistic, expect this only for middle of 2017 or latter...

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

If the gimbal issue solved then am going to warthog, if VKB produced modern grip (...) then going for VKB.

Up to you, but the Warthog gimbal will remain plastic ;)

After taking it apart myself to re-grease it, I'd hesitate spending that kind of money again on a Warthog.

I agree, the metal grip feels nice. The rest of it ... not so much.

Also depends if you have a tabletop setup like me, or a simpit. I like the sleek VKB design better than the bulky Warthog.

If you mainly play A-10C, then Thrustmaster it is.

Edited July 20, 2016 by Hans-Joachim Marseille

[Mtnbiker1998]

Wow. I would never have thought a house fire could do that to metal. Quite a scary thought. Everyone alright?

 

Seems like you've already decided on another warthog, I'm also looking forward to hegykc's bolt on gimbal. Hopefully that ends up being as awesome as it looks.

[Feuerfalke]

You should at least consider the CH Fighterstick.

 

It outlived 2 Warthog HOTAS and is still rocksolid.

 

In fact, my original Fighterstick was replaced after 15 years of service only because I didn't find a good solution for it's gameport-plug...

 

 

It's got tons of buttons and even a built-in z-axis you can use for throttle.

 

 

Yes, I hear the critics: "But it's made of plastic"

Yes it is, but lets be honest: The Warthog feels better because all surfaces your handle are made of metal, but the vital parts are all plastic, too.

 

The CH Fighterstick also got 2 gimbals, so each axis has its own centering (which comes in pretty handy especially for WW2-planes) and the springs for that can easily be replaced or adjusted to your needs (again extremely useful for WW2-dogfights).

 

The programming surface is.... simple (to find a better word than Windows 95-style :music_whistling:), but extremly powerful.

[Sokol1_br]

Problem with CH is that still using the same electronics standard for "1999" - 8 bits (256 resolution points) - so now obsolete (Warthog say that is 256 times more).

 

The consensus is for the "advanced" FM of actual flight games, this matter.

 

[ame]http://www.hempstick.org/download/articles/OnResolution.pdf[/ame]

Edited July 20, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[hansangb]

Up to you, but the Warthog gimbal will remain plastic ;)

After taking it apart myself to re-grease it, I'd hesitate spending that kind of money again on a Warthog.

I agree, the metal grip feels nice. The rest of it ... not so much.

Also depends if you have a tabletop setup like me, or a simpit. I like the sleek VKB design better than the bulky Warthog.

If you mainly play A-10C, then Thrustmaster it is.

 

 

It's so odd because I've had zero issues with the gimbal, sticktions or anything close to it. The inside wiring could be improved quite a bit, but for the most part, I've had zero issues.

[Hans-Joachim Marseille]

It's so odd because I've had zero issues with the gimbal, sticktions or anything close to it. The inside wiring could be improved quite a bit, but for the most part, I've had zero issues.

Really? What year is yours, and how often do you use it? I can only say that once you feel it, you keep feeling it :joystick:

I must say I'm getting biased after being spoiled with the VKB.

[Feuerfalke]

Problem with CH is that still using the same electronics standard for "1999" - 8 bits (256 resolution points) - so now obsolete (Warthog say that is 256 times more).

 

The consensus is for the "advanced" FM of actual flight games, this matter.

 

http://www.hempstick.org/download/articles/OnResolution.pdf

 

 

Yeah, I know.

 

But honestly? I prefer 256 rez-points I can actuate extremely precise over the Warthogs top-notch hall sensors with mechanics you need to polish and grease up to actually make use of it.

And really, even if you get a warthog with expensive spring-mods and extensions, the stick still moves only 2/3 the way CH Fighterstick does in each direction. So your 16 bit are still stacked over almost half the length the 256 bit of the Ch Fighterstick are stretched.

 

So putting all together and having the luck to have both testet in parallel, my opinion still stands.

[Sokol1_br]

And really, even if you get a warthog with expensive spring-mods and extensions, the stick still moves only 2/3 the way CH Fighterstick does in each direction.

 

As curiosity just take measure in one CH F-16 Fighterstick there now.

 

The stick deflect in X axis ~30 degree for side - the top of grip travel ~11cm or ~22 cm from one side to other.

 

If Warthog - event with a 7,5cm extension - move only 2/3 of this, their gimbal is really bad (don't know don't have this stick). :)

 

My CH F-16 Fighterstick use L.Bodnar BU0836X (12 bits) as USB controller, is no more "obsolete". ;)

 

VKB "Next Gen" gimbal move around 20 degrees for each side.

Edited July 21, 2016 by Sokol1_br

[Rabso]

Up to you, but the Warthog gimbal will remain plastic ;)

After taking it apart myself to re-grease it, I'd hesitate spending that kind of money again on a Warthog.

I agree, the metal grip feels nice. The rest of it ... not so much.

Also depends if you have a tabletop setup like me, or a simpit. I like the sleek VKB design better than the bulky Warthog.

If you mainly play A-10C, then Thrustmaster it is.

 

Yes this is the problem, I fly most of time A-10C and TM warthog stick is very nice with it. I decided to go for another TM warthog at this time with hegykc's bolt on gimbal which I have very big hope that it will solve the hard centering. after that, am going to wait VKB to produce the modern grip then buy it as its gimbal all metal

 

You should at least consider the CH Fighterstick.

 

It outlived 2 Warthog HOTAS and is still rocksolid.

 

In fact, my original Fighterstick was replaced after 15 years of service only because I didn't find a good solution for it's gameport-plug...

 

 

It's got tons of buttons and even a built-in z-axis you can use for throttle.

 

 

Yes, I hear the critics: "But it's made of plastic"

Yes it is, but lets be honest: The Warthog feels better because all surfaces your handle are made of metal, but the vital parts are all plastic, too.

 

The CH Fighterstick also got 2 gimbals, so each axis has its own centering (which comes in pretty handy especially for WW2-planes) and the springs for that can easily be replaced or adjusted to your needs (again extremely useful for WW2-dogfights).

 

The programming surface is.... simple (to find a better word than Windows 95-style :music_whistling:), but extremly powerful.

 

after using the TM warthog, it's really hard to go back to CH, yes CH was amazing at its time.

 

It's so odd because I've had zero issues with the gimbal, sticktions or anything close to it. The inside wiring could be improved quite a bit, but for the most part, I've had zero issues.

 

Really? What year is yours, and how often do you use it? I can only say that once you feel it, you keep feeling it :joystick:

I must say I'm getting biased after being spoiled with the VKB.

 

I need to clarify this, since I bought my first warthog, the only this is I noticed a small notch/clunk coming from the spring once I go away from center. it's kind of feeling of that clunk more than hearing it. is this the gimbal issue all people clamming it?

[hansangb]

rABSO,

When I got the TM, I used it for Huey as well. So I did the spring mod ([ame=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBMBR8M0z2E]here[/ame]) which got rid of the main spring. I could fly the huey with one finger! In A10, I felt it was much better as well. I wasn't fighting the stick the whole time.

 

Recently, I added Milan's (of MFG fame) extension. And I was able to put the main spring back to use. The increased torque allows me to use the stick w/o fighting it.

 

You can check out my post on the extensions here.

[Rabso]

rABSO,

When I got the TM, I used it for Huey as well. So I did the spring mod which got rid of the main spring. I could fly the huey with one finger! In A10, I felt it was much better as well. I wasn't fighting the stick the whole time.

 

Recently, I added Milan's (of MFG fame) extension. And I was able to put the main spring back to use. The increased torque allows me to use the stick w/o fighting it.

 

You can check out my post on the extensions here.

 

Yes, mine from MFG will be shipped beginning of August with the Crosswind. I am sure the extension will remove the center force

[Feuerfalke]

As curiosity just take measure in one CH F-16 Fighterstick there now.

 

The stick deflect in X axis ~30 degree for side - the top of grip travel ~11cm or ~22 cm from one side to other.

 

If Warthog - event with a 7,5cm extension - move only 2/3 of this, their gimbal is really bad (don't know don't have this stick). :)

 

My CH F-16 Fighterstick use L.Bodnar BU0836X (12 bits) as USB controller, is no more "obsolete". ;)

 

VKB "Next Gen" gimbal move around 20 degrees for each side.

 

I'd say 33°, measuring from the pivot point. But lets not argue about it.

The Warthog has range of roughly 23-25°.

With the extension, the travel distance on top of the stick changes, of course, but the angle stays the same. And of course you can still add the BU0836 and an extension to the Fighterstick, too. (Actually, I found the Fighterstick pretty easy to extend)

 

One more word on the article posted:

Yes, indeed, mathematical and from an engineering point of view, this makes the 16 bit win over any other input device, even the famous 12-bit-BU0836. So the statements made are most surely correct.

 

However, IMHO this equation misses a really vital point:

While the Joystick maybe polled at a rate of 1000 Hz and a 'lag' of 1ms, you probably run the game on a framerate of 60-100 fps on a monitor with 60 Hz. If you run the game a flatscreen TV its probably less. That means even the flumsy Fighterstick with it's lousy 8bit hardware and windows 125 Hz standard polling rate is checked TWICE before you can even see the result being rendered. Not even considering input lag from your monitor...

So these loitering CPU-cycles for the next input as stated in the article? You do that at least 10 times as long to actually render a single frame.

 

 

Well, in the end it's just up to personal preference.

I just want to point out, that though the Warthog feels a lot better, it doesn't mean it is in general a better stick. That is rather a question of immerson than that of largely better hardware. Let's face it: There is no such thing as a perfect HOTAS on the market.

So if somebody points out something is obsolete, it's most likely because they want to sell you something even more expensive to replace it.