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Huuuuge fps drop-spikes quite often!


D4n

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So, usually I have my 40 to 80 fps, but since this patch, on the effects of crashed aircraft my GPU fights the fps and I only get 15 fps many many times for several minutes...

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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I believe it's caused by fire or smoke effect.

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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There seems to be quiet a few of us having preformance issues with 1.5.4 & 1.5.3

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=169484

 

http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=169738

 

As of yet I have not found any worth wile solution.

Windows 10 Pro 64, I5 4690k @4.6GHz with CAPTIAN 240EX AOI, Samsung 850 EVO ,G Skill Ripjaws 16G RAM, Nvidia GTX 970 STRIX, MSI Z97 GAMING 5, WD Blue 1TB HDD, Seasonic M12 II EVO psu, Track IR 5, Pro Flight X-55 Rhino H.O.T.A.S

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I guess lowering a specific graphics setting would increase minimum fps?

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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I think just one solution - uninstaling the game. I have same problems with GPU & CPU utilization on my rig. It won't be optimised because there's some major engine streaming issues. That's why there are so many people complainin and no Eagle Dynamics dev response. They have to know about it and i dont think they do anythin about it


Edited by soundslikerust
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I solved it by lowering some settings a little bit and I'm on Win 10 now, no problems at all with fps anymore!

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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It's really strange for me....I have both the stable and OB installed. Without any mods running, my OB gets almost twice the FPS as the stable install. Both are the same version.

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I'd have to check, didn't look into it.

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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I think just one solution - uninstaling the game. I have same problems with GPU & CPU utilization on my rig. It won't be optimised because there's some major engine streaming issues. That's why there are so many people complainin and no Eagle Dynamics dev response. They have to know about it and i dont think they do anythin about it

 

And what GPU utilization do you have on those low settings?

 

 

You cannot circumvent DirectX API Command Overhead, even if they were to re-code the entire Simulation to be multi-threaded, which will not happen anytime soon as it wont fix anything and would be a big re-write.

 

More Object, More Commands, More DirectX API Command Overhead, Less GPU Usage while GPU waits for Commands, Less FPS.

 

Reduce Visibility Distances of Objects = Less Objects and Less Commands = More Fluid Flow of GPU instructions = Higher FPS.

 

it don't matter how much Raw GPU Power you throw at the engine, if the DirectX API itself cannot process the commands fast enough and send them to the GPU, the GPU waits.

 

 

 

It's really strange for me....I have both the stable and OB installed. Without any mods running, my OB gets almost twice the FPS as the stable install. Both are the same version.

 

 

Make sure the Options.lua files are the same, make sure both game folders are excluded from any virus scan software etc etc.

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You cannot circumvent DirectX API Command Overhead, even if they were to re-code the entire Simulation to be multi-threaded, which will not happen anytime soon as it wont fix anything and would be a big re-write.

 

More Object, More Commands, More DirectX API Command Overhead, Less GPU Usage while GPU waits for Commands, Less FPS.

 

Reduce Visibility Distances of Objects = Less Objects and Less Commands = More Fluid Flow of GPU instructions = Higher FPS.

 

it don't matter how much Raw GPU Power you throw at the engine, if the DirectX API itself cannot process the commands fast enough and send them to the GPU, the GPU waits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Make sure the Options.lua files are the same, make sure both game folders are excluded from any virus scan software etc etc.

 

 

This is almost true. ALMOST because all people including me have 30-40% CPU utilisation MAX (looking at specific cores). There's even no 100% vram usage - i have 32GB RAM and 8GB VRAM system. AT most it utilised 3,7GB vram of 8. So 40% CPU + 50% GPU + 50%vram + 25% RAM utilized. No throtling, noc1 states, performance everywhere. It means streaming system. Thank you.

 

p.s. plus my 15 years of experience


Edited by soundslikerust
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This is almost true. ALMOST because all people including me have 30-40% CPU utilisation MAX. There's even no 100% vram usage - i have 32GB RAM and 8GB VRAM system. AT most it utilised 3,7GB of 8. So 40% CPU + 50% GPU + 50%vram + 25% RAM utilized. Thank you.

 

DirectX Commands have nothing to do with Graphics Memory, nor System Memory.

 

DirectX Commands Have nothing to do with CPU utilization,

 

The DirectX Command Kernel itself is Multi-threaded by default, however it will never peg a CPU at 100% because it has a Software Limit.

 

Once the Commands per Cycle Reach the Limit, Everything Bottle necks, as the API was not designed to process more than that, it's not a Hardware Issue, it's not a DCS Issue, it's a DirectX Issue.

 

 

PS. 15 yrs Experience Building Gaming Rigs is Impressive, Congrats, You came in after Intel already Shafted AMD, CyRix, IDT, and Rise CPU manufacturers.

 

I was Building Computers Since the 286 Era, through 486, Through Pentiums, Through Athlons, Through to Today's Hardware, so, roughly 25+ years.

 

 

15 yrs of Building Systems doesnt mean you have 15 yrs understanding the API's and Software that drive them.

 

 

Simple, Research DIRECTX GPU DRAW CALL CPU OVERHEAD.

 

 

Draw Call Overhead is the common problem of every Simulator that has a Large Scale battlefield w/ Thousands individual objects being rendered within it and withing visual range.

I'm not talking Battlefield 3/4, I'm Talkin DCS, FSX, ArmA II, ArmAIII, etc etc.

 

DirectX has an Upper Ceiling for how many Draw Commands it can process, anything above that limit Affects stability and CPU overhead,

Which Affects FPS, Rendering Errors, GPU Utilization etc.

 

-DX9c Was Designed to handle an Upper Limit of 5K (5000)

(Above the 5K Ceiling, the GPU Usage would Drop Drastically along w/ the Frame Rates)

 

-DX10 Had a Similar Upper Limit of 5-6K (5,000-6,000), was a bit more forgiving if pushed past the limit

(Above the 5-6K Ceiling, the GPU Usage would slowly drop, FPS would also drop, but not as Steep as DX9c)

 

DX11 was Designed to handle around 10-12K (10,000-12,000), was still more forgiving when pushed

-Some games pushed 20K Draw Call stable, just locked at 30Fps Internally),

-Above the Limits w/o Governing was still forgiving depending on how hard it was pushed, some games pushed 50-60K Draw Calls, but would have severe stability issues, other games would push the limit but w/ decreased FPS in those instances.

 

DX12 was Designed to handle 600,000K+,

-and even then, nothing has come close to testing it, so the limit hasn't actually been tested to see if it could be higher.)

 

Seeing the Pattern Here?

 

Now, Every Object (Aircraft, Weapon, House, Building, Fence, Tank, AI Civilian Traffic, Ships, Tree, Bush, Texture Sprite, Terrain Section, Road, Rail Road, etc, etc etc) is a Draw Call.

 

Calls for objects can be grouped, but grouped calls have an entirely different effect on FPS, other engines have stupendously low visibility distance to avoid going over any limits.

 

Bottom Line, If you tried to Run the Current NTTR Map on DX9c, you'd likely crash out everytime, the amount of objects over Vegas are likely up there, and likely past any safe margin for DX9.

 

 

If you search the forums hard enough w/ the right keywords, you'll find the posts in 2011 or so detailing the reason for the decision to go w/ DirectX11.

 

To Give some Scope:

The Draw Call Limits Between DX11 and DX12, and how they effect Rendering

 


Edited by SkateZilla

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DirectX Commands have nothing to do with Graphics Memory, nor System Memory.

 

DirectX Commands Have nothing to do with CPU utilization,

 

The DirectX Command Kernel itself is Multi-threaded by default, however it will never peg a CPU at 100% because it has a Software Limit.

 

Once the Commands per Cycle Reach the Limit, Everything Bottle necks, as the API was not designed to process more than that, it's not a Hardware Issue, it's not a DCS Issue, it's a DirectX Issue.

 

 

PS. 15 yrs Experience Building Gaming Rigs is Impressive, Congrats, You came in after Intel already Shafted AMD, CyRix, IDT, and Rise CPU manufacturers.

 

I was Building Computers Since the 286 Era, through 486, Through Pentiums, Through Athlons, Through to Today's Hardware, so, roughly 25+ years.

 

my first was 386sx so you won. I'm an engeener. Everything you wrtote is fine almost. There's one thing more. When there are botlenecks in multithered ops, and no vital PC component is utilized more than 50%. What is the botleneck?

 

 

algorithm/implementation ;)

 

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my first was 386sx so you won. I'm an engeener. Everything you wrtote is fine almost. There's one thing more. When there are botlenecks in multithered ops, and no vital PC component is utilized more than 50%. What is the botleneck?

 

 

algorithm/implementation ;)

 

What Governs the Draw Commands and Rendering Pipeline? The DirectX API Kernel..

 

Everything I wrote is Modern Era Gaming Fact. Mainstream Gaming is oblivious to the issue as most mainstream games do not have anywhere near the object counts nor visibility distances of Modern Era Simulations.

 

The Same Behavior in DCS is noticed in every other modern large scale battlefield simulation.

DCS, FSX, P3D, ArmA II, ArmA III, etc.

 

I work in Graphics, I know the engines and how they operate.


Edited by SkateZilla

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

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i salute you mate, really I appreciate knowledge, i've some background too but it seems ED proved you wrong already.

 

 

better optimzed dcs 2.0

 

 

Better Optimized DCS 2.0 = DirectX 11 vs DirectX 9, and an updated Terrain Engine, Unified UI, and about a dozen other listed objects, vs DCS 1.2.16

 

no where does it say, Re-Coded to resolve Draw Command Upper Limit CPU Overhead caused by DirectX API Kernel

 

I'm pretty sure I know more about what ED is and isnt doing, on multiple levels.

 

 

Seems your intent on engaging in a debate instead of accepting the truth about the root of the problem.

 

 

As much as I'd like to debate on the code level DirectX handicaps for the last 24 years since Microsoft Debuted the DirectX Software API Layer to Render 3D Objects across every supported GPU Architecture from ATi (CiF), nVidia (NV1), SiS (S3D), 3DFx (Glide), Matrox (MSi), and about half a dozen generic Brands (Trident (3Di/Blade), etc etc etc.

 

I have other things to tend to that are vastly more important.


Edited by SkateZilla

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Better Optimized DCS 2.0 = DirectX 11 vs DirectX 9, and an updated Terrain Engine, Unified UI, and about a dozen other listed objects.

 

no where does it say, Re-Coded to resolve Draw Command Upper Limit CPU Overhead caused by DirectX API Kernel

 

I'm pretty sure I know more about what ED is and isnt doing, on multiple levels.

 

 

Seems your intent on engaging in a debate instead of accepting the truth about the root of the problem.

 

 

As much as I'd like to debate on the code level DirectX handicaps for the last 24 years since Microsoft Debuted the DirectX Software API Layer to Render 3D Objects across every supported GPU Architecture from ATi (CiF), nVidia (NV1), SiS (S3D), 3DFx (Glide), Matrox (MSi), and about half a dozen generic Brands (Trident (3Di/Blade), etc etc etc.

 

I have other things to tend to that are vastly more important.

 

ouch not nice, your background is fine, you wont know mine anytime soon because its not facebook. Our expertise is not a main problem here. Thanks for your opinion

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Skate what is actual difference then currently, if both 1.5 and 2.0 are both Dx11 ? (or 2.0 Dx 12? :D )

 

And btw. Skate do you know if Dx11 already automatically made the CPU/GPU only "render" the things in front of the player (cause calculating and processing what is BEHIND the player, where the player isn't even looking at in the cockpit in DCS for example would only slow down fps...)

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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Skate what is actual difference then currently, if both 1.5 and 2.0 are both Dx11 ? (or 2.0 Dx 12? :D )

 

And btw. Skate do you know if Dx11 already automatically made the CPU/GPU only "render" the things in front of the player (cause calculating and processing what is BEHIND the player, where the player isn't even looking at in the cockpit in DCS for example would only slow down fps...)

 

DCS 1.5 is T3

 

DCS 2.0 is T4

 

Which Does't have an affect on FPS,

Outside of 1.5 is the old Caucasus Map w/ less objects and Terrain Mesh Resolution compared to NTTR Object count and Terrain Mesh Resolution in 2.0.

 

T4+ Allows Multiple Terrains to be used in DCS, T3- Does not.

There's other things under the hood, but it's mostly DRM/Multiple Map Support.

 

Both Run DX11 and the Unified Exe's

 

 

 

As for Object Rendering Occlusion, It's complicated.

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And how does 2.0 manage to run higher terrain Mesh Resolution and higher Object count with same fps as Caucasus?! o_O

DCS Wishlist: 2K11 Krug SA-4 Ganef SAM, VR-TrackIR icons next to player names in score-chart

PvP: 100+ manual player-kills with Stingers on a well known dynamic campaign server - 100+ VTOL FARP landings & 125+ hours AV-8B, F-14 crew, royal dutch airforce F-16C - PvP campaigns since 2013

DCS server-admins: please adhere to a common sense gaming industry policy as most server admins throughout the industry do. (After all there's enough hostility on the internet already which really doesn't help anyone. Thanks.)

Dell Visor VR headset, Ryzen 5 5600 (6C/12T), RTX 2060 - basic DCS-community rule-of-thumb: Don't believe bad things that a PvP pilot claims about another PvP pilot without having analyzed the existing evidence

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ouch not nice, your background is fine, you wont know mine anytime soon because its not facebook. Our expertise is not a main problem here. Thanks for your opinion

 

 

If it was a bit brash, apologies, but I must control myself from engaging in this debate, cause I dont have time to type multiple paragraph replies, lol, as I am very passionate about graphics rendering :-) :thumbup:

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

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And how does 2.0 manage to run higher terrain Mesh Resolution and higher Object count with same fps as Caucasus?! o_O

 

2.0 Runs DirectX11/T4, which enables Higher Terrain Mesh and Objects via Higher Draw Command Limit of DX11, ClipMapping, and other DX11 Features.

 

1.5 Runs DirectX11/T3, none of the Terrain Features are used on DCS1.5

 

The DCS 2.0 / EDGE / T4+ "Features" / "Performance Improvements" / Etc List are actually

DCS 2.0 vs DCS 1.2.16 Which runs Separate UI and Sim EXE's, and Obviously DirectX9c with a lower Object Count limit.

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

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summarizing your logic SkateZilla both DCS 1,5 and DCS 2.0 run on the same directx api (apart what you said before). You're saying that better optimized DCS 2.0 on the same direct x api doesn't mean that dcs 1,5 implementation is bad?

 

 

not sure what you're implying/asking?

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

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wasn't 11.3 latest stable?

 

DX 11.3 only Works on Windows 10, As it's a higher Level SuperSet of DirectX11 w/ Some of DX12's Features Shared.

 

DCS Runs DirectX11, Windows 7+ is Supported, Moving to 11.2 or 11.3 Limits Users to Windows 8/10.

 

At that point they'd might as well upgrade to DX12, lol.

 

 

T1/T2/T3/T4/T5 are ED Terrain Engines.

 

ie: http://forums.eagle.ru/showpost.php?p=2671242&postcount=4


Edited by SkateZilla

Windows 10 Pro, Ryzen 2700X @ 4.6Ghz, 32GB DDR4-3200 GSkill (F4-3200C16D-16GTZR x2),

ASRock X470 Taichi Ultimate, XFX RX6800XT Merc 310 (RX-68XTALFD9)

3x ASUS VS248HP + Oculus HMD, Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS + MFDs

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