Open Source Virtual Reality - OSVR and DCS

[dot]

 

The OSVR 2.0 also has smaller tracking area, which IMHO wont effect Sit down Sim Users (Flight, Space, Driving etc).

 

/QUOTE]

 

 

Just to add, room scale tracking should be possible down the line with another IR camera (just like oculus).

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They talk about it @3:58, I can't embed that into above link for some reason.

 

Razor haven't announced any hand tracking product yet, but I suspect they're working on something atm, also since it's open source they support a lot of other manufacturers.

 

At the moment, leap motion is already integrated and works with Steam VR!

 

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Edited June 23, 2016 by dot

[wormeaten]

About hands in VR. I'm specifically talking about here from DCS user perspective in everything related with VR on this forum. So for example I'm happy with only seating experience and tracking as well.

 

It will be nice to have your hands inside virtual cockpit and using all this switches like in real thing what is our potential VR user goal in the end.

Leap motion is one of possible solution same as glove. Major problem for this is not limitation of those hardware, major problem is DCS. For using such hardware inside cockpit in game we need 3D space for mouse cursor.

Right now we have 2D mouse cursor which we use for interaction with cockpit instruments and working OK until you don't use head tracking.

Problem people describe for leapmotion using instead of mouse is similar.

So conclusion is we already have hardware for it only problem is implementation such solution in specific game what is Game developer work not hardware dev.

[DerekSpeare]

News???

 

It may be that Oculus removed the HMD verification check from the latest runtimes:

 

https://github.com/LibreVR/Revive/releases/tag/0.6.2

 

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2016/06/oculus-reverses-course-dumps-its-vr-headset-checking-drm/

 

It would mean, then, that ReVive runs again with the Oculus Store. If this is the case, and it appears it is, then that means that this Razer HDK2 may work with the Oculus store and other Oculus titles...with work, of course. My biggest concern for the Razer HMD is that it has to have some type of ATW for it to be even worth considering for my own use.

Edited June 24, 2016 by DerekSpeare

[SkateZilla]

or they forgot to include it.. lol.

[hansangb]

yeah, I'll go with Skate on this one :)

[DerekSpeare]

I doubt that...especially after the press attention it is getting. They'd lose serious face by admitting such a mistake, more face than they've lost all along...though they may not care any longer.

 

I don't it's an error...strange way to do it, though...they could have gotten positive press by saying, "you know guys...we love you...we see that it's not the best for our fans to be so restrictive...so we killed that and here you go...aren't we great!"

[hansangb]

From: PC Mag site:

 

 

 

Oculus confirmed that the check has been removed in the latest version of its software.

"We continually revise our entitlement and anti-piracy systems, and in the June update we've removed the check for Rift hardware from the entitlement check," an Oculus spokesperson told Vice News. "We believe protecting developer content is critical to the long-term success of the VR industry, and we'll continue taking steps in the future to ensure that VR developers can keep investing in ground-breaking new VR content."

The author of Revive posted on Reddit that he was cautiously optimistic after Oculus's decision.

 

"I don't think they changed their stance on exclusivity, but they're at least willing to meet us halfway by letting us mod our games," the developer wrote. "I'm delighted to see this change and I hope it can generate a lot of goodwill for Oculus."

[wormeaten]

Here is something new. Pico Neo.

 

[Simon1279]

Hello everyone, i'm an HDK 1.4 owner, and i can confirm that DCS is working with OSVR through SteamVR, everything that works with SteamVR works on OSVR smooth and flawlessy.

 

Now back on DCS : OSVR HDK 1.4 works better than rift DK2, the SDE is very reduced compared to DK2, but the screen is a single 1080p with just 60 Hz instead of 90 and with my GTX 970 works very well in DCS 2.0 or 1.5.4 with everything set on Ultra settings, except view distance which is set default, there are sometimes framedrops and it's very noticeable in the HDK 1.4 and you really need to unwear the HMD to avoid motion sickness, i can see cockpits without any aliasing line, and if you zoom in you can read gauges exc. (HUD in modern aircrafts are totally unreadable), the pixelation is present and in some cases a kind of nightmare.

View sight in the far, middle/far distance is bad, very bad, i mean if you're looking to spot an enemy Plane from far and middle/far distance then it's completely impossible indeed.

The tracking system is very similar to the one seen on the oculus CV1 but it has a tracking panel also behind your head.

Q: Can i suggest you to buy an OSVR ?

A:OSVR is not really plug and play it's an Hacker development Kit after all, you should expect some tweaking, plugin, SDK, exc. Due to its open source nature there's a Reddit community behind it and being completely open source, there's a huge share about: files, plugins, how to, DIY exc. exc. and being totally open platform it's completely upgradable, works with most of the VR games and the fact that it has hardware expandable possibilities under my point of view enriches the usability. They're in parthnership with Nvidia, Intel, Steam, Crytek, Nod, Sensics (military grade VR HMDs producer), Ubisoft and many others for a total of more than 300 parthners

 

If you're looking for something "Tweaky" but at total price included shipment of 349€ in Italy VS the 740€ for the Oculus Rift CV1 and considering the possibility to upgrade the hardware just like a Gamig PC... well it's up to you to buy or not to buy

 

If you're looking for something Plug and Play, easy to use then definitely don't buy an OSVR.

 

I enjoy DCS pretty much with my OSVR HDK 1.4 and it's not too hard to configure the 1st time only, it's more hard flying the A10C in DCS flawlessy

 

if you have further questions i'll be glad to give you an answer

Edited July 13, 2016 by Simon1279

[Smith]

Thank you, this was very informative. :thumbup:

 

the SDE is very reduced compared to DK2

 

Does someone know if the HDK 1.4 uses a RGB-Display? If so this should confirm, that the hdk 2 should be better than rift or vive when it comes to screen-door effect.

[Simon1279]

Thank you, this was very informative. :thumbup:

 

 

 

Does someone know if the HDK 1.4 uses a RGB-Display? If so this should confirm, that the hdk 2 should be better than rift or vive when it comes to screen-door effect.

 

dunno if it's better or not they're using their own technology to hide SDE which is a kind of film filter, it works but SDE is still there not as bad as DK2 and yes it is using RGB display.

 

I'm very busy these days at work but when i'll have some spare time i'll try to make lens view screenshots with my smartphone but can't promise nothing ATM sorry

[wormeaten]

... i can see cockpits without any aliasing line, and if you zoom in you can read gauges exc. (HUD in modern aircrafts are totally unreadable), the pixelation is present and in some cases a kind of nightmare.

View sight in the far, middle/far distance is bad, very bad, i mean if you're looking to spot an enemy Plane from far and middle/far distance then it's completely impossible indeed.

 

Grazie Simone.

Very god review with major point for DCS usage.

 

I quoted some details which in my opinion have major issues to gameplay experience and make decision buy VR, UW 34" monitor or 50" 4K TV.

 

I know it is completely different thing and they pro and cons are completely opposite.

 

This is one of the best VR review from DCS player perspective focused only on important issues. I want to encourage you to make more detailed review, more in details description than screenshots.

 

One of the question is what do you think how much 3D effecting on reading HUD and distance view. Is it better without 3D or is it both resolution and 3D or 3D not effecting on it at all so it is resolution only issue?

 

Cheers m8.

[wormeaten]

BTW HDK2 with dual display same ress as CV1 will cost in EU around 450€.

[hansangb]

If it's the same resolution as CV1? Doesn't that imply there won't be any added benefit? Or will RGB - if confirmed - make that much of difference?

 

Thanks

[dot]

If it's the same resolution as CV1? Doesn't that imply there won't be any added benefit? Or will RGB - if confirmed - make that much of difference?

 

Thanks

 

If it's pentile it will be the same as Vive/CV1, but if it's RGB then you'll have TWICE as many red and blue subpixels. I think this will make a big difference, but I'll let you know once I have HDK2 in hand...

[Simon1279]

Hello everyone

 

Well talking about VR HMDs it's not the same as talking about monitors, i mean:

 

HMDs are not just about screens, the main thing is screen+optics, looks simple ain't it? but: screens are not just about resolution but also pixelation, sub pixelations, RGB levels, persistence and technology (oled, amoled, super amoled, RGB,pentile, exc.). Optcis..... heh here comes the VR image main factor..... filters applied on lenses, lenses focal point, lenses area on the screen, shape of the lenses, quality of the cristal, internal design of the lenses, lenses refraction quotient, and FOV on the screen, it's more complicated than just talking about screen resolution or pentile or RGB, the main factor about VR HMDs actual price is up to screen yes but also for optics, they're not just a magnifier or a weird kind of mini spyglass.

 

and no one never talks about optics but just about screens.

 

the main problem, with flight sims, where you need to keep in sight also the distance, is the pixelation and the overall low quality of the image, compared to a standard 1080p PC monitor.

RGB screens will not be the saviours.

I can't read the HUDs due to the pixelation and because i can't zoom on HUDs while on Gauges i can making them readable.

3D is good very good and it's not an issue with readable text the only problem is pixelation.

 

@wormeaten

 

Glad to have been helpful

 

Well 4K monitor is definitely a thing made for breathtaking graphics while VR is made for having an experience, VR is cool very cool but it's still a primitive technology and you definitely can't buy it, if your aims are: high detailed image views.

For a free flight i'm always flying wearing my VR HMD but for combat well no i don't.

I still have my TrackIR5 camera upon my monitor, it's just up to you choosing between VR HMD and 4K monitor

 

With VR you really don't know what you get, for sure you'll never get an image quality compared to that one of your monitor.

With 4k Monitor, you know what you get.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Simon1279
answered @wormeaten

[dot]

Hello everyone

 

Well talking about VR HMDs it's not the same as talking about monitors, i mean:

 

HMDs are not just about screens, the main thing is screen+optics, looks simple ain't it? but: screens are not just about resolution but also pixelation, sub pixelations, RGB levels, persistence and technology (oled, amoled, super amoled, RGB,pentile, exc.). Optcis..... heh here comes the VR image main factor..... filters applied on lenses, lenses focal point, lenses area on the screen, shape of the lenses, quality of the cristal, internal design of the lenses, lenses refraction quotient, and FOV on the screen, it's more complicated than just talking about screen resolution or pentile or RGB, the main factor about VR HMDs actual price is up to screen yes but also for optics, they're not just a magnifier or a weird kind of mini spyglass.

 

and no one never talks about optics but just about screens.

 

the main problem, with flight sims, where you need to keep in sight also the distance, is the pixelation and the overall low quality of the image, compared to a standard 1080p PC monitor.

RGB screens will not be the saviours.

I can't read the HUDs due to the pixelation and because i can't zoom on HUDs while on Gauges i can making them readable.

3D is good very good and it's not an issue with readable text the only problem is pixelation.

 

@wormeaten

 

Glad to have been helpful

 

Well 4K monitor is definitely a thing made for breathtaking graphics while VR is made for having an experience, VR is cool very cool but it's still a primitive technology and you definitely can't buy it, if your aims are: high detailed image views.

For a free flight i'm always flying wearing my VR HMD but for combat well no i don't.

I still have my TrackIR5 camera upon my monitor, it's just up to you choosing between VR HMD and 4K monitor

 

With VR you really don't know what you get, for sure you'll never get an image quality compared to that one of your monitor.

With 4k Monitor, you know what you get.

 

Moar subpixels is better, no?

 

The reason why image looks better on pc monitor is because you are looking at the screen at a smaller fov (15-20 deg), or if you are taling about phones, it's about 2-5 deg FOV if you hold the phone at 1m away.

 

In VR, that FOV is stretched to 100deg (4-5X compared to pc monitor) which means every pixel (and it's subpixels) are 4-5X bigger...

[Cibit]

This is an interesting thread thanks for OP bringing it to our attention :)

[Simon1279]

@dot

 

The answer is always ""It should be better"" but if you don't try it yourself well you don't know.

 

I'm always carefull talking about VR technology, because after reading here and there and talking to various people that tryed or own a VR HMD, my conclusion is: that it is a strictly personal experience, so i usually talking about my own experience, not everyone sees the SDE for an example, like just another person, some people find it gamebreaking and some other people find it something barely visible, same goes for the pixelation.

 

Also to buy or not to buy a VR HMD question

 

i would buy it, because after i've tryed it for the first time i can't imagine in the future, when the technology will offer an image as good good as a common 1080p PC monitor, another way to play Videogames and Sim Games

[DerekSpeare]

Will the HDK2 have something like ATW?

[dot]

Will the HDK2 have something like ATW?

 

I hope so, if ATW is supported on game on steam, then it should (fingers crossed) work with HDK2.

 

@Simon1279,

 

I'm just happy someone is pushing the envelope with PC VR.

Pentile screens work horrible in VR (IMHO) so RGB screen is a nice improvement.

Although I'd much rather prefer higher res single screen (2560x1440)

 

P.S. even if ATW doesn't work I'd much rather have better display on VR HMD and upgrade my PC as needed.

(we probably won't see Oculus or Vive CV2 for at least a year)

[hansangb]

For me, lack of ATW would be a deal breaker.

[wormeaten]

Sorry guys but what is ATW?

[Ferrum Intra]

Asynchronous Time Warp. Its a software solution that reducrs jitter on lower and unstable framerates. It is a must for dcs.

[dot]

Asynchronous Time Warp. Its a software solution that reducrs jitter on lower and unstable framerates. It is a must for dcs.

 

ATW does help, but really you need to be at 90 min FPS for smooth experience.

 

With ATW I get double vision and ghosting so it's not a magic bullet.