Oculus Rift with DCS World Discussion

[RePhil]

I tried to use DCS no oculus home as a test I know you cant play with out it on but you can load it and get head movement on opening screen if you move it around without head in HM goggles. Funny thing I get 175 FPS that way when Oculus home is running its only 90??.

Edited October 17, 2018 by RePhil

[Lensman]

I tried to use DCS no oculus home as a test I know you cant play with out it on but you can load it and get head movement on opening screen if you move it around without head in HM goggles. Funny thing I get 175 FPS that way when Oculus home is running its only 90??.

 

I guess that's because it's only being rendered to the monitor at the monitor resolution. When you put the Rift on it starts rendering at VR resolution.

[BigDuke6ixx]

I tried to use DCS no oculus home as a test I know you cant play with out it on but you can load it and get head movement on opening screen if you move it around without head in HM goggles. Funny thing I get 175 FPS that way when Oculus home is running its only 90??.

 

The system is designed to be optimal on 90FPS. Going higher is pointless.

[RePhil]

The system is designed to be optimal on 90FPS. Going higher is pointless.

I get that ok then why does it drop to 45FPS in game I have been told that's per eye and also that, that's for both eyes?

[BigDuke6ixx]

I get that ok then why does it drop to 45FPS in game I have been told that's per eye and also that, that's for both eyes?

 

You need to read up on how ASW works but essential its to keep the experience smooth.

[Kenta]

I get that ok then why does it drop to 45FPS in game I have been told that's per eye and also that, that's for both eyes?

 

 

I might not be 100% right with this. But basically it goes something like this.

 

 

If Oculus Rift software detects that your GPU can't draw 90 FPS in whatever game you are playing it locks the frames to 45 FPS and compensates with your CPU - meaning that the CPU computes the missing frames and throws them in, making everything appear smooth. Same technology is being used in LCD televisions. Some supposedly are 200Hz+. In reality they are not. Frames get computed and filled making the picture seem more fluid.

 

 

Hopefully I got it somewhat right. If not... someone please correct me.

[mariner3302]

My system used to be setup and run DCS fine without Oculus Home running. I used the tray tool option and running DCS with the admin rights. Now I have to have Home open for the Rift to see the game. The tracking works fine, just no picture in the Rift. I think it had something to do with the Skatezilla app which I love. Any thoughts or ideas? I don't know if I am taking a performance hit with Home open but I would rather it not.

[dburne]

Oculus ( either intentionally or unintentionally) disabled that trick of setting Oculus Home to run as admin and not have it running.

Now it is required to be running in order to get image in headset.

 

I myself have not seen any difference in performance either way.

[mariner3302]

Ah ok, it's not just me then! lol I haven't noticed any adverse performance either.

[birkatron]

Rift stuttering in game

 

Is anyone else getting high frequency stutter when sat in the cockpit?

I have been able to sort this by restarting DCS but it keeps happening.

[Precog]

Seems fine my end

[dburne]

So far everything rock solid on my end.

[GunnyCook]

would really like to be able to use touch controllers to move stick and throttle

[metzger]

would really like to be able to use touch controllers to move stick and throttle

 

Tried this with x-plane 11. Not possible to even fly a cessna reliably without phisical feedback. Fighting will be impossible bot a2a or a2g, helos absolutely no go. Not to say how long you can keep you hand in the air without resting it on something. Let aside you can't operate any of the hotas buttons. Really I don't see how this would be doable in dcs or any other fighting sim.

 

Was trying to use them for startup but keep hitting my hand in the hotas or other stuff around me, we are not there yet.

[Muskoka]

would really like to be able to use touch controllers to move stick and throttle

 

I fully agree, that's the "programming" direction all sims should be heading/leaning towards in the future, if they're interested in offering a true Vr experience. The problem is there's no suitable "hand controllers" available yet, for Dcs use. Yes, the touch controllers work great in X-Plane, and Flyinsides new sim, but those simulators aren't as demanding in "reaction time" as Dcs. You can't be "fiddling" around in the Dcs cockpit, the interactions with dials, and switches, needs to be accurate, precise, and fast, or your dead. :)

 

And whatever you end up using for interaction, it has to work with everything in that cockpit, meaning, you can't be using "something" to manipulate the stick, and "something else" for dials and switches. Everything in front of you "needs" to be manipulated with one controller, other than rudder of course.

 

I do very much look forward to the day that I can perhaps put on a pair of gloves, or something similar, that will allow me to "completely" control the aircraft in the Vr world. No mouse, no hotas, just my hands, a set of rudder pedals, and a mic for voice interaction. Looks like there's some offerings in the near future, I hope they work as well as projected/expectations.

 

And I'll add, they need to be affordable (gloves for example) , not the ridiculous price some are asking.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Muskoka

[metzger]

I fully agree, that's the "programming" direction all sims should be heading/leaning towards in the future, if they're interested in offering a true Vr experience. The problem is there's no suitable "hand controllers" available yet, for Dcs use. Yes, the touch controllers work great in X-Plane, and Flyinsides new sim, but those simulators aren't as demanding in "reaction time" as Dcs. You can't be "fiddling" around in the Dcs cockpit, the interactions with dials, and switches, needs to be accurate, precise, and fast, or your dead. :)

 

And whatever you end up using for interaction, it has to work with everything in that cockpit, meaning, you can't be using "something" to manipulate the stick, and "something else" for dials and switches. Everything in front of you "needs" to be manipulated with one controller, other than rudder of course.

 

I do very much look forward to the day that I can perhaps put on a pair of gloves, or something similar, that will allow me to "completely" control the aircraft in the Vr world. No mouse, no hotas, just my hands, a set of rudder pedals, and a mic for voice interaction. Looks like there's some offerings in the near future, I hope they work as well as projected/expectations.

 

In x-plane, how do you find the center of your yoke when using the touch, so you can correctly trim the aircraft ? I can't really find a way to precisely keep my hands so steady that the yoke is not moving and flying correctly seems almost impossible, landings are horrible, good luck keeping this AoA and flareing precisely. From my experience, it works anything but great in x-plane, it is cool to operate the cockpit, but flying is horrible, the hotas feels much better.

[Muskoka]

In x-plane, how do you find the center of your yoke when using the touch, so you can correctly trim the aircraft ? I can't really find a way to precisely keep my hands so steady that the yoke is not moving and flying correctly seems almost impossible, landings are horrible, good luck keeping this AoA and flareing precisely. From my experience, it works anything but great in x-plane, it is cool to operate the cockpit, but flying is horrible, the hotas feels much better.

 

In the vr settings there's 2 options offered for how the controllers interact, not on my computer at the moment so not sure of the exact names, but I choose the "ergonomic" option. It allows you to manipulate the yoke with your hand "anywhere" you like, so I rest my hand on my leg, and only need to "tilt" the controller slightly up, down, left, and right. I don't need to keep my hand suspended in air attached to the yoke. It takes getting used to of course, but I find it works quite well. Just need to be gentle with the movements, no heavy hands. :)

 

Is it perfect, no, far from it, but with practice it gets easier. I look at it this way, I want a "complete" Vr experience. The only way to do that is "use your hands" in the cockpit, so I give it my best shot. I can takeoff and land, they may not be perfect, or, "by the book", but I get down in one piece, and that's all that really matters at this stage of "early" Vr development to me.

 

The fact that I'm able to do anything in vr, fly, drive, cause mayhem in a fps, travel in space, is a life long dream for someone pushing 60, so I feel very lucky to have a chance to experience vr at all.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Muskoka

[metzger]

In the vr settings there's 2 options offered for how the controllers interact, not on my computer at the moment so not sure of the exact names, but I choose the "ergonomic" option. It allows you to manipulate the yoke with your hand "anywhere" you like, so I rest my hand on my leg, and only need to "tilt" the controller slightly up, down, left, and right. I don't need to keep my hand suspended in air attached to the yoke. It takes getting used to of course, but I find it works quite well. Just need to be gentle with the movements, no heavy hands. :)

 

Is it perfect, no, far from it, but with practice it gets easier. I look at it this way, I want a "complete" Vr experience. The only way to do that is "use your hands" in the cockpit, so I give it my best shot. I can takeoff and land, they may not be perfect, or, "by the book", but I get down in one piece, and that's all that really matters at this stage of "early" Vr development to me.

 

The fact that I'm able to do anything in vr, fly, drive, cause mayhem in a fps, travel in space, is a life long dream for someone pushing 60, so I feel very lucky to have a chance to experience vr at all.

 

Hm, I was always trying to keep my hands on the yoke in the air and it was very inconvenient, will give it another shot with your method. I totally agree that even currently going around the cockpit with the touch is very cool, I do it for fun from time to time, but for dcs serious flying it doesn't work efficiently so far. Hopefully someday we will have some cool gloves providing some heptic feedback to your fingers when you operate switches :)

[hansangb]

In the vr settings there's 2 options offered for how the controllers interact, not on my computer at the moment so not sure of the exact names, but I choose the "ergonomic" option. It allows you to manipulate the yoke with your hand "anywhere" you like, so I rest my hand on my leg, and only need to "tilt" the controller slightly up, down, left, and right. I don't need to keep my hand suspended in air attached to the yoke. It takes getting used to of course, but I find it works quite well. Just need to be gentle with the movements, no heavy hands. :)

 

Is it perfect, no, far from it, but with practice it gets easier. I look at it this way, I want a "complete" Vr experience. The only way to do that is "use your hands" in the cockpit, so I give it my best shot. I can takeoff and land, they may not be perfect, or, "by the book", but I get down in one piece, and that's all that really matters at this stage of "early" Vr development to me.

 

The fact that I'm able to do anything in vr, fly, drive, cause mayhem in a fps, travel in space, is a life long dream for someone pushing 60, so I feel very lucky to have a chance to experience vr at all.

 

 

 

 

But I don't understand why holding a real HOTAS in your hand breaks any immersion. If anything, I would think having your hand to the side "pretending" to move the HOTAS in game would be an immersion breaker.

 

 

But I get that different folks want different things.

[Mango]

I've tried X-Plane's "virtual" controls using the Touch controllers and it's very awkward and inaccurate, even for a simple take-off run in a Cessna. Imagine how difficult this would be trying to drive a car with touch controllers in racing sims!

 

When such precision is required, you really need to have your hands on physical controllers. Just give X-Plane demo a try and you'll see what I mean.

[Muskoka]

But I don't understand why holding a real HOTAS in your hand breaks any immersion. If anything, I would think having your hand to the side "pretending" to move the HOTAS in game would be an immersion breaker.

 

 

But I get that different folks want different things.

 

I wouldn't say it totally breaks immersion, I still use my hotas, and yoke, at times, depending of course on what I'm flying. I just think "in the future", and that could be a long way off for mainstream simulators, it would be cool to not have to rely on anything other than "our hands" in a virtual cockpit.

 

Like the way its done in Vtol Vr, which if you haven't tried, you need to have a look at. That's implemented really well, but certainly does not have the complexity of Dcs, but fun just the same.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Muskoka

[BigDuke6ixx]

I wouldn't say it totally breaks immersion, I still use my hotas, and yoke, at times, depending of course on what I'm flying. I just think "in the future", and that could be a long way off for mainstream simulators, it would be cool to not have to rely on anything other than "our hands" in a virtual cockpit.

 

 

That's just dumb. I want a physical stick because that feels like the real thing. Manipulating some phantom controlling with a Touch is the daftest thing ever as far as immersions goes, imo.

[Muskoka]

That's just dumb. I want a physical stick because that feels like the real thing. Manipulating some phantom controlling with a Touch is the daftest thing ever as far as immersions goes, imo.

 

 

To each their own I guess, but using a "physical controller/hotas" is not "virtual reality" in its purest sense, now is it. To suggest otherwise, is dumb. Back at ya. :smilewink:

 

Neither is using a Touch controller, so I'll give you that. More reason why some kind of glove, that becomes part of your body, is needed to be true vr in the cockpit, so you can better manipulate a virtual flight stick. Hence my suggestion to look at Vtol Vr, it's getting close.

 

Yes, you need some kind of "external control" to manipulate things in the vr world, I get that, but my ultimate vr is using "some device" attached to my hand, or better yet a full body suit, but not a physical hotas, yoke, steering wheel, you get the point. You may not agree, but that's kinda moot to me. You enjoy what you currently have, that's great, I hope vr goes that step further. Is it a ways down the road yet, years, sure maybe, but we can all dream.

 

I'm certainly not arguing that what we have today is the answer, far from it, but I certainly don't want it to stop developing, leaving us dependant on physical controllers, like a hotas. Read some of the reviews for Vtol Vr over at Steam (or better yet try it yourself) , most of those people "get it". It's the closest thing to a real vr experience we have today in flight sims, others are somewhat behind to say the least.

Edited November 1, 2018 by Muskoka

[Lensman]

I've tried X-Plane's "virtual" controls using the Touch controllers and it's very awkward and inaccurate, even for a simple take-off run in a Cessna. Imagine how difficult this would be trying to drive a car with touch controllers in racing sims!

 

When such precision is required, you really need to have your hands on physical controllers. Just give X-Plane demo a try and you'll see what I mean.

 

Agreed. I've tried the X-Plane virtual controls and it's great for some gentle thermal soaring in the Alps but anything more agile and it's tricky to control.

Maybe using a simple unconnected 'dumb' joystick to grab hold of might work, I'll have to give it a go.

It would be good to find a solution, because reaching around flicking switches and turning knobs works really well.:thumbup:

[metzger]

To each their own I guess, but using a "physical controller/hotas" is not "virtual reality" in its purest sense, now is it. To suggest otherwise, is dumb. Back at ya. :smilewink:

 

Neither is using a Touch controller, so I'll give you that. More reason why some kind of glove, that becomes part of your body, is needed to be true vr in the cockpit, so you can better manipulate a virtual flight stick. Hence my suggestion to look at Vtol Vr, it's getting close.

 

Yes, you need some kind of "external control" to manipulate things in the vr world, I get that, but my ultimate vr is using "some device" attached to my hand, or better yet a full body suit, but not a physical hotas, yoke, steering wheel, you get the point. You may not agree, but that's kinda moot to me. You enjoy what you currently have, that's great, I hope vr goes that step further. Is it a ways down the road yet, years, sure maybe, but we can all dream.

 

I'm certainly not arguing that what we have today is the answer, far from it, but I certainly don't want it to stop developing, leaving us dependant on physical controllers, like a hotas. Read some of the reviews for Vtol Vr over at Steam (or better yet try it yourself) , most of those people "get it". It's the closest thing to a real vr experience we have today in flight sims, others are somewhat behind to say the least.

 

The point is, physical controller provides you feedback, the virtual one doesn't no matter the tracking. It's not only the imersion but also the ability to control, how do you find the center of your joystick ?

 

Now imagine for a racing game people pay lots of cash to get a decent wheel with good ffb, because the physical feedback not only helps you determine what is going on but also brings you closer to the feeling of driving real car. Now we don't have ffb joysticks yet, but still.

 

For me, the perfect VR will be a very good VR headset to give your eyes the feeling of presence and a complete physical copy of a cockpit which will exactly match the one you see in VR, so you will actually feel the physical cockpit switches and stick and everything while you look at them in the virtual world.

 

No hand tracking can replace the feeling of really switching that switch or moving this joystick, vr headset is just to cheat your brain through your eyes for where you are. Hand tracking is a replacement of the parts of the cockpit or environment which we can not have for real.

 

It is like, imagine you have a very good motion chair which will give you some G feeling (such still doesnt exist but imagine it) would you get rid of it just because it is not part of your virtual world ? I doubt it. For me the combination of all is the perfect solution.

 

 

And again, I don't see how you can manage hotas functions with any kind of finger tracking without really feeling what are you touching.

 

My current approach to manipulate cockpit is with multiple button boxes with switches, rotary encoders and positional knobs. Also with thurstmaster mfd's. For example I fly the Sabre completely mouse/keyboard free, from startup to shutdown and with time you get so good muscle memory that you don't really need to see the controller, but if the switches can match exactly the ones in VR, that would be truly amazing.