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Normandy Map Discussion


Lenux
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Early morning over England, Isle of White and Needs Oar Point field.

 

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Thx

 

Jersey Island

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I would like to ask, if modern airbases will be developed sometime in the future or if respective mods (asphalt runways etc) will be possible to created?

 

That's like asking if they're going to put 44 airbases in Cauascus.

 

Normandy is a 44 map. Let's stay true to that.

Buzz

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I am quite sure that there will not be modern bases added to the Normandy map. Whether it will be possible to mod it is a question I cannot answer.

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If Normandy can't stay historical i'll go back to IL2 COD where it is historical.

 

This is ridiculous.

 

Not sure you're getting the point of the question that was asked. Your version of Normandy (the one you buy) will remain historical. However anyone else is free to mod their map any way they want. It doesn't affect you or your copy in any way.

 

(I.E. Giving the users an option in the future to add airfields in the editor, doesn't mean that Eagle Dynamics will be adding them to the base map themselves)


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Not sure you're getting the point of the question that was asked. Your version of Normandy (the one you buy) will remain historical. However anyone else is free to mod their map any way they want. It doesn't affect you or your copy in any way.

 

(I.E. Giving the users an option in the future to add airfields in the editor, doesn't mean that Eagle Dynamics will be adding them to the base map themselves)

 

That's true if I stay in SP. What happens when I go online?

 

I'm really into keeping things historical as much as possible. I'd hate to see that spoiled. We can make some really good missions online instead of doing air quake. I'm hoping that happens.

 

I'm optimistic and I hope that doesn't change. I'll buy Normandy today and I hope I won't regret that in the future.

 

 

Rant over.

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If you have online, the mission creators intent build WW2 missions by the mission editor, restrict them to WW2 armament, you only need found them.

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That's true if I stay in SP. What happens when I go online?

 

I'm really into keeping things historical as much as possible. I'd hate to see that spoiled. We can make some really good missions online instead of doing air quake. I'm hoping that happens.

 

I'm optimistic and I hope that doesn't change. I'll buy Normandy today and I hope I won't regret that in the future.

 

 

Rant over.

 

Its totally in the hands of the mission makes, ED is trying to give us all the pieces.

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That's true if I stay in SP. What happens when I go online?

 

(1) The map will be whatever map mod you have locally: if you have a special "Southeast Asia" jungle mod for Normandy, that's what you see, regardless of what's on the server; if you have a special "Ice Age Earth" mod for Normandy, that's what you see, regardless of what's on the server; if you have stock, that's what you see, regardless of what's on the server.

 

(2) Servers that go "ahistorical" (in quotes, because it need not be so much ahistorical as historical but post-WW2) will advertise themselves as such, target, e.g. jet combat, as opposed to classic warbird combat ... you, in this, as in every thing, have the choice. You would choose not to go online on these servers and stick to the stock WW2 servers that will be available.

 

(3) I am, as you know, a warbird fan. But I, for one (and I also know for a fact many others as well) am seriously looking forward to flying helo's over Normandy in a "Cold War gone hot" scenario, which would include, probably 3rd gen jets and other other contemporary assets. I do not consider this any less realistic or authentic than any other scenario we have in this great sand box that is DCS. Or rather, the realism/authenticity of this will be up to the mission designers and player community, but the potential for the realism is very, very, very, high. With the P-51/F-86/Mig-15 and possibly the Sioux mod, we get really good Korean-war era "Cold War gone hot in Europe" possibilities. With the F-5/Mig-21/Huey/Mi-8 we get really good Vietnam-war era "Cold War gone hot in Europe" possibilities. Fast-forward 10-20 years, and we can throw in the Gazelle, BO, etc. Lots of interesting fun all around by all, in no way which will impact your personal warbird experience.

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Ok, I understand. I'm also heavy into Grand Prix Legends. It's a 1967 F1 sim. Most of us try to keep everything true to 1967. Including how we drive the cars. No modern methods. If someone wants to paint their car pink they can do it, because nobody will see it but them. The same goes for the tracks. I only see the track i've installed, but my track has to match the one online.

 

So, with that said. If someone wants to modernize the Normandy map. Won't everybody need to download that version to see it online? If that's the case I have no worries because I won't download them. I guess I was worried that Ed would incorporate these changes into the Normandy map and upgrade everybody to the new version.

 

Thanks


Edited by BuzzU

Buzz

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Ok, I understand. I'm also heavy into Grand Prix Legends. It's a 1967 F1 sim. Most of us try to keep everything true to 1967. Including how we drive the cars. No modern methods. If someone wants to paint their car pink they can do it, because nobody will see it but them. The same goes for the tracks. I only see the track i've installed, but my track has to match the one online.

 

So, with that said. If someone wants to modernize the Normandy map. Won't everybody need to download that version to see it online? If that's the case I have no worries because I won't download them. I guess I was worried that Ed would incorporate these changes into the Normandy map and upgrade everybody to the new version.

 

Thanks

 

At least, as things stand now with the architecture of DCS, user map modifications are purely cosmetic/aesthetic, and visible exclusively to the end user who has downloaded them. The "purely cosmetic" bit means that any changes to, e.g., airfields, will only not change the airfield functionality, however it looks ... and these cosmetic/aesthetics will only be seen if you download the mod.

 

Having said that, servers may employ object-based mods, which will not only look different, but will also behave differently --- e.g., https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=124251 . These, too, however, IIRC, you will have to install on your end to get on the server and get working.

 

All of these have you "opted out" by default: you have to take active measures to join servers supporting these mods, which may range from the fanciful/ridiculous ahistorical to highly rigorously (para-)historical but post WW2-era.

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Its a wide section of the channel so will take a while to get there, but I flew across in a L-39 from France to Isle of White.

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Off course the Germans can fly to England- just like everyone else. And sure you can make BoB like scenarios- but if you are so historically picky as you yourself point out- with the current planeset, it will not be perfect for BoB. But German bombers (JU-88 which is on the way) escorted by 109's and attacked by Spits- no problem.

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I'm not trying to recreate BOB. Wrong plane set. Did the Germans attack England during the Normandy invasion, or did they just try to defend Europe?

 

By the Normandy invasion, the Luftwaffe was no longer (really) an effective fighting force in any capacity in the region. The Allies had total air supremacy, and there was not one German aircraft in the sky over Normandy on D-Day. And very little (though, of course there were some) after till the end of the war --- stories of two dozen or more Allied fighters chasing a single Luftwaffe fighter are not uncommon, and Allied fighter-bombers and attack planes had the run of the sky.

 

This was by design: it had been planned two years previously, and masterfully put into effect in Operation Pointblank. The great Allied bombing raids leading up to the invasion had only the secondary objective of infrastructure and material destruction. The primary objective was to draw up the Luftwaffe to fight and eventually destroy them through attrition. To the extent that bomber routes deliberately went near or over Luftwaffe fighter defense bases instead of avoiding them. They succeeded in this not just spectacularly, but some would say, given the resources at hand, inevitably.

 

All of this (and much, much, much, much more) is covered in great and fantastic detail in https://www.amazon.com/Command-Sky-Superiority-Smithsonian-Spaceflight/dp/0817353461 "To Command the Sky: The Battle for Air Superiority Over Germany, 1942-1944". A truly fantastic book that covers everything in great detail from a strategic, doctrinal, and tactical viewpoint from both sides.

 

So yes, there is historical and there is historical ... a "what happened" and "what might have happened". So, as you can see, a balanced (even by a long margin), even vaguely symmetric force-on-force air conflict on a late 1944 map is no more or less historical than a "Cold War Gone Hot in Normandy using 1970's tech"! ;)


Edited by Bearfoot
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I'm not trying to recreate BOB. Wrong plane set. Did the Germans attack England during the Normandy invasion, or did they just try to defend Europe?

 

 

From what I know there were hardly enough resources in the area to put planes over Normandy at that point (depending on what date we decide this is... it's at least D-Day +29) I'd guess flying to England was pretty much a suicide mission.

 

 

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This is my concern. I know how the war was played out. If we make historical missions the Germans have no chance and I have to wonder what fun would that be? If we could fly to England with German planes to catch them by surprise it might be better fights than fighting in France and getting slaughtered.

 

To be honest, Normandy is not the best battle to model in DCS. The fights are so lopsided that it won't be much fun for either side. I'm tempted to buy the K4 just to have more of a challenge. I'd have no fun with 5-10 planes on 1.

 

How about you?

Buzz

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This is my concern. I know how the war was played out. If we make historical missions the Germans have no chance and I have to wonder what fun would that be? If we could fly to England with German planes to catch them by surprise it might be better fights than fighting in France and getting slaughtered.

 

To be honest, Normandy is not the best battle to model in DCS. The fights are so lopsided that it won't be much fun for either side. I'm tempted to buy the K4 just to have more of a challenge. I'd have no fun with 5-10 planes on 1.

 

How about you?

 

You don't have to make historical missions - we all know the outcome of that although we might want to 're-enact' it.

 

You could build missions that do not follow Hitler's military touch and perhaps there were more aircraft available to the LW than historical. Perhaps 'you', Herr Goering, can send bombers to England and affect Allied a/c operations. Perhaps in your scenario 'Big Week' wasn't as successful as it really was. Perhaps you will create a 'Big Week' that has more LW defense than historical and a lesser impact on LW aircraft production.

 

It's up to you.

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