Warthog Joystick Firmware Fail Fix

[rocketsmith]

I recently purchased a used Warthog Hotas on ebay in damaged/non-working condition. I've been interested in the Warthog for some time, but the price and Thrustmasters's history of shoddy internals always put me off. I am planning to convert several old gameport hotas setups to USB, and have been studying this, so when the Warthog Hotas came up for sale for less than $200 including shipping I realized that, even in a worste case of fried electronics I could replace them with an arduino using MMJoy2. As it turned out that will not be necessary.:)

 

The stick was described as 'not being recognized by the computer'. Well not exactly. The stick was seen by the computer, and I was able to perform the first step in restoring the firmware, the "bulk" status, but the final driver install always failed. Two green checks and a red X- verification time-out failure. This happened using any USB port, on any computer with any OS, following TM's instructions to the letter and after doing due diligence searching the forums for posts from others with similar problems. Nothing. I had always thought that the problem with this stick might be one of quality control ( see Cougar ) so I was prepared to open up the stick and start checking circuit continuity and measuring voltages. In fact my very first step had been to remove the base plate and check the circuit board for any signs that the magic-smoke had escaped- no scorch marks or odor so move on with testing. Since the stick was recognized by any computer I plugged it into It seemed unlikely that there could be a problem with the USB cable. There are more wires inside the stick, and another connector which are also possible points of failure, so some more searches were in order. This turned up an instance where the ground wire had become detached from the connector at the top of the base. Once the wire was re-soldered the firmware installed and the stick was fine. This seemed like an obvious place to start checking my stick.:joystick:

 

I decided to check the connections to the base connector of the modified PS2 by removing the two small Philips screws and lifting the connector enough to see the solder joints. After unplugging the stick, I used a small Philips driver to remove the screws and used a pair of tweezers to grasp the metal housing of the connector and carefully began lifting the connector- completely free of the rest of the stick and the socket side of the connector, which was still in the stick, seemingly hovering there supported by the wires inside. Well, there's your problem. With the guts of the connector loose in the stick there is no way to make an electrical connection to the handle, even if it is attached to the base. I grasped the plastic connector center with the tweezers to try to withdraw it from the base but there was not enough slack in the attached wires. removing the base plate ( it came with only 3 screws ) again I was able to push the ground and cable wires up into the stick enough to raise the connector about 1 1/2 inches- about 4cm. Time for a test. I plugged the connector socket into the base of the handle as far as it would go and, with the top of the stick resting on my desk, plugged the USB cable into one of the ports of the PC. Before I had time to react Windows had found the stick and installed the drivers for a perfectly working device. Checking Devices, I had a perfectly working Warthog stick, ready for calibration! As it turns out, the problem was not a software issue at all, but yet another example of a cheap hardware failure.

 

Unplugging the stick again I proceeded with repairs. I disconnected the handle and examined the two parts of the connector. The metal housing has four dimples that are made during manufacture to "pin" the housing to the plastic center. They are arranged in two pairs with different spacing, and I found matching grooves in the plastic where the two parts had been forced apart. I used a pair of regular pliers as a hand-press to gently force the shroud and the center together again. I used the slip-joint of the pliers to open the pliers to their wide opening, and alternated side to side to join the parts. The overlap is only about 3/32 inch- about 3 or 4 mm- so it doesn't take much. Once reassembled I plugged the connector onto the base of the handle, so the handle side of the connection would properly align the parts. I then used two small drops of thin CA glue on the joint between the shroud and center of the lower connector, being careful to avoid the ground strip that runs up the outside of the plastic center. That's it. I waited 10 minutes to give the CA plenty of time to set, reinstalled the repaired connector in the base, tucked the slack wire back into position and reattached the base plate. I ***CAREFULLY*** aligned and attached the handle and plugged in the USB cable. I am now the proud owner of a slightly used- but perfectly working- Warthog joystick.:thumbup:

 

In retrospect it seems obvious that during the firmware installation process the handle is queried to see if it is operating properly and, if not- or the handle isn't present- the installation cannot be verified. Some conclusions: NEVER force the handle into position. It would only take once to damage the connector and force the plastic socket out of it's housing. This could also happen over time, especially if you regularly disassemble your joystick at the end of each session ( perhaps at the request of your significant other ). When properly assembled, the plastic center of the base-mounted connector should be nearly flush with the top of the metal housing. If it appears to be about an 1/8" lower then the parts have separated and there is nothing to hold the socket in place when the handle is attached. It seems that TM is aware of this problem, and their fix is the addition of the large yellow ( and unsightly ) arrows to the stick parts. If you are experiencing intermitant firmware problems the connector may have partially separated. If you remove the connector base and see a groove where the shroud has begun to pull away from the plastic center then perform the repair as described above. If there is no groove visible then this is not your problem. Of course, this will not be the solution for everyone with firmware issues. YMMV. But I hope this will save some folks some aggravation- and some money- if they have firmware issues like mine. I hate to think of all the sticks that may have been returned when they could easily have been repaired.:doh:

 

Cheers

 

:pilotfly:

[hansangb]

-deleting original -

 

After having read the post!

Edited March 12, 2016 by hansangb

[rocketsmith]

It turned out to be a damaged handle connector, a hardware failure instead of a software issue.

[Brewnix]

I recently purchased a used Warthog Hotas on ebay in damaged/non-working condition. I've been interested in the Warthog for some time, but the price and Thrustmasters's history of shoddy internals always put me off. I am planning to convert several old gameport hotas setups to USB, and have been studying this, so when the Warthog Hotas came up for sale for less than $200 including shipping I realized that, even in a worste case of fried electronics I could replace them with an arduino using MMJoy2. As it turned out that will not be necessary.:)

 

The stick was described as 'not being recognized by the computer'. Well not exactly. The stick was seen by the computer, and I was able to perform the first step in restoring the firmware, the "bulk" status, but the final driver install always failed. Two green checks and a red X- verification time-out failure. This happened using any USB port, on any computer with any OS, following TM's instructions to the letter and after doing due diligence searching the forums for posts from others with similar problems. Nothing. I had always thought that the problem with this stick might be one of quality control ( see Cougar ) so I was prepared to open up the stick and start checking circuit continuity and measuring voltages. In fact my very first step had been to remove the base plate and check the circuit board for any signs that the magic-smoke had escaped- no scorch marks or odor so move on with testing. Since the stick was recognized by any computer I plugged it into It seemed unlikely that there could be a problem with the USB cable. There are more wires inside the stick, and another connector which are also possible points of failure, so some more searches were in order. This turned up an instance where the ground wire had become detached from the connector at the top of the base. Once the wire was re-soldered the firmware installed and the stick was fine. This seemed like an obvious place to start checking my stick.:joystick:

 

I decided to check the connections to the base connector of the modified PS2 by removing the two small Philips screws and lifting the connector enough to see the solder joints. After unplugging the stick, I used a small Philips driver to remove the screws and used a pair of tweezers to grasp the metal housing of the connector and carefully began lifting the connector- completely free of the rest of the stick and the socket side of the connector, which was still in the stick, seemingly hovering there supported by the wires inside. Well, there's your problem. With the guts of the connector loose in the stick there is no way to make an electrical connection to the handle, even if it is attached to the base. I grasped the plastic connector center with the tweezers to try to withdraw it from the base but there was not enough slack in the attached wires. removing the base plate ( it came with only 3 screws ) again I was able to push the ground and cable wires up into the stick enough to raise the connector about 1 1/2 inches- about 4cm. Time for a test. I plugged the connector socket into the base of the handle as far as it would go and, with the top of the stick resting on my desk, plugged the USB cable into one of the ports of the PC. Before I had time to react Windows had found the stick and installed the drivers for a perfectly working device. Checking Devices, I had a perfectly working Warthog stick, ready for calibration! As it turns out, the problem was not a software issue at all, but yet another example of a cheap hardware failure.

 

Unplugging the stick again I proceeded with repairs. I disconnected the handle and examined the two parts of the connector. The metal housing has four dimples that are made during manufacture to "pin" the housing to the plastic center. They are arranged in two pairs with different spacing, and I found matching grooves in the plastic where the two parts had been forced apart. I used a pair of regular pliers as a hand-press to gently force the shroud and the center together again. I used the slip-joint of the pliers to open the pliers to their wide opening, and alternated side to side to join the parts. The overlap is only about 3/32 inch- about 3 or 4 mm- so it doesn't take much. Once reassembled I plugged the connector onto the base of the handle, so the handle side of the connection would properly align the parts. I then used two small drops of thin CA glue on the joint between the shroud and center of the lower connector, being careful to avoid the ground strip that runs up the outside of the plastic center. That's it. I waited 10 minutes to give the CA plenty of time to set, reinstalled the repaired connector in the base, tucked the slack wire back into position and reattached the base plate. I ***CAREFULLY*** aligned and attached the handle and plugged in the USB cable. I am now the proud owner of a slightly used- but perfectly working- Warthog joystick.:thumbup:

 

In retrospect it seems obvious that during the firmware installation process the handle is queried to see if it is operating properly and, if not- or the handle isn't present- the installation cannot be verified. Some conclusions: NEVER force the handle into position. It would only take once to damage the connector and force the plastic socket out of it's housing. This could also happen over time, especially if you regularly disassemble your joystick at the end of each session ( perhaps at the request of your significant other ). When properly assembled, the plastic center of the base-mounted connector should be nearly flush with the top of the metal housing. If it appears to be about an 1/8" lower then the parts have separated and there is nothing to hold the socket in place when the handle is attached. It seems that TM is aware of this problem, and their fix is the addition of the large yellow ( and unsightly ) arrows to the stick parts. If you are experiencing intermitant firmware problems the connector may have partially separated. If you remove the connector base and see a groove where the shroud has begun to pull away from the plastic center then perform the repair as described above. If there is no groove visible then this is not your problem. Of course, this will not be the solution for everyone with firmware issues. YMMV. But I hope this will save some folks some aggravation- and some money- if they have firmware issues like mine. I hate to think of all the sticks that may have been returned when they could easily have been repaired.:doh:

 

Cheers

 

:pilotfly:

 

Nice! Congrats on the new stick. But I need your help! Since you found your broken warthog stick everyday I type in looking for defunc and broken warthog stick and don't find a darn thing. I was wondering what you use to search for it. My goal is like you to get the stick someone thought was broken or is broken retro out with another after market board of some sorts and reprogram it. I currently have a throttle I am bidding on not going to say for fear someone will try to out bid me but its older throttle and looks like a warthog handle and I am going to retro that throttle to my own board. So I can get the dual throttles. Thanks!

[rocketsmith]

Brewnix- I sent you a message with a link to the original ebay listing. As you can see there's nothing really special about it. I just got lucky- right time, right place. Try using the listing tool set for lowest price with shipping.

 

You should know that, afik, only one other "older" dual throttle was mass-marketed by a company that TM sued into bankruptcy, and everyone here probably already knows exactly what you're bidding on. If you don't win it, just post a message asking if anyone has one for sale. Back in the day, when all the legal crap went down- I bought the last two in a local shop for $14.95 each, along with four more of two kinds of joysticks for future parts needs. Love that single-spring design. I'll probably mod them because the originals are still going strong with an older OS.

Edited March 12, 2016 by rocketsmith
spelling

[1.JaVA_Platypus]

And you got a nice stick for a nice price. Great job on the fix! :)

[rocketsmith]

Thanx. I hope it helps out others with that problem.

 

Actually the throttle seems to be working properly too. It was described as "Throttle control magnetic sensor bounces between 20Khz - 40khz. Magnet for sensor seems to have fallen out, is included. AS IS: SALE FINAL

 

There is a small magnet taped to the top of the throttle. It is cylindrical, about 3/8" long by 1/8" dia. (about 1 cm by 3.5 mm). The thing is, everything seems to be working properly- at least in Windows calibration. All three axis seem to be steady through their movements. I don't have any diagnostic software to investigate this (possible) issue, unless there is something in the Target programs- I've only had these for 3 days- so I'm downloading all the utilities I can find that might help. If anyone knows where that magnet is supposed to go please chime in. I've just installed the starter for DCS so I might try using the hotas later today. I still need to figure out how to use my CH rudder pedals with Target.

[NeilWillis]

In DCS World, you should just be able to plug and play all the controllers, and not use target at all.

 

Curves can be edited within the settings for DCS World, and with the exception of 3 way switches, all buttons can be configured the same way.

 

I can't help with the magnet problem I am afraid.

[Brewnix]

Brewnix- I sent you a message with a link to the original ebay listing. As you can see there's nothing really special about it. I just got lucky- right time, right place. Try using the listing tool set for lowest price with shipping.

 

You should know that, afik, only one other "older" dual throttle was mass-marketed by a company that TM sued into bankruptcy, and everyone here probably already knows exactly what you're bidding on. If you don't win it, just post a message asking if anyone has one for sale. Back in the day, when all the legal crap went down- I bought the last two in a local shop for $14.95 each, along with four more of two kinds of joysticks for future parts needs. Love that single-spring design. I'll probably mod them because the originals are still going strong with an older OS.

 

Ok I didn't think about that ill inquire in the forum if this doesn't pan out thanks!

[rocketsmith]

Just an update on the throttle. I've tried it in several games and sims and if it has any problems I haven't encountered them. As far as I can tell it works properly. I'll tape the magnet to the underside of the throttle next to the allen wrench- just in case- and just continue to use it.

[mkiii]

If everything is working, could the magnet be the one from the left throttle that snaps the 'Bolt' out of the way when you disconnect them?