How to land with crosswind?

[unknown]

A little background of myself. Most of my DCS time i spend in helicopters, namely the Mi-8 and before that the Ka-50, sometimes a take a ride in the UH-1. If i'm not in the mood for helicopter flying i take a ride in the Su-27 or Mig-21. I don't have any problems landing them or FC3 planes or the choppers with crosswind.

I love flying around with this beautiful Mirage 2000 and i have no problems with takeoff or landings with no crosswind, takeoff with crosswind is challenging but i can do it.

 

The only problem i have is landing with crosswind in the Mirage 2000. My problem is that the rudder input is moving the nose of my aircraft to the left or right and i would assume that my flightpath would follow this input but it doesn't. For example, i approach the runway and i have crosswind from the left. I put my flightpathmarker on the runway and the crosswind is pushing me to the right side. If i now apply left rudder my nose is moving to the left but my flightpathmarker is not moving to the left and so the nose of my aircraft isn't moving to the left. I think this has something to do with the FBW system?

 

What am i doing wrong or don't understand proper? The only way for me to compensate crosswind on the approach is to roll the aircraft into the direction of the crosswind and then pull on the stick a little and then roll back to align with the runway again. Do you have any tips how to do it proper?

[scottb613]

How to land with crosswind?

 

Hi...

 

I don't have the plane but there are two methods to compensate for crosswind... To crab or slip...

 

The crab is where you keep the plane level but turn the nose into the wind a bit to arrest your lateral drift... This is fairly simple and easy to do - but you can't touch down this way as you'd probably blow out a tire - so you have to use the rudder to kick the nose straight down he runway when a few feet off the ground... It's a timing issue - in a strong wind - do it too soon and you'll drift off the runway before touchdown - too late and your tires may rupture due to lateral force...

 

The second method is a slip where you cross control (ailerons turned one way - rudder turned the opposite) the aircraft - you bank the aircraft into the wind and use the rudder in the opposite direction to keep from actually turning... Typically you find the right amount of rudder early on and just hold the pressure constant while you use the ailerons for fine adjustment... The idea is to land banked with your upwind main touching first..

 

Hope this helps...

 

Regards,

Scott

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited February 3, 2016 by scottb613

[unknown]

Hi...

 

I don't have the plane but there are two methods to compensate for crosswind... To crab or slip...

 

The crab is where you keep the plane level but turn the nose into the wind a bit to arrest your lateral drift... This is fairly simple and easy to do - but you can't touch down this way as you'd probably blow out a tire - so you have to use the rudder to kick the nose straight down he runway when a few feet off the ground... It's a timing issue - in a strong wind - do it too soon and you'll drift off the runway before touchdown - too late and your tires may rupture due to lateral force...

 

The second method is a slip where you cross control (ailerons turned one way - rudder turned the opposite) the aircraft - you bank the aircraft into the wind and use the rudder in the opposite direction to keep from actually turning... Typically you find the right amount of rudder early on and just hold the pressure constant while you use the ailerons for fine adjustment... The idea is to land banked with your upwind main touching first..

 

Hope this helps...

 

Regards,

Scott

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That is exactly what i thought it will work and what i tried but didn't work. But after some more testing i think i found my error, i think i was to slow on the throttle. I put the nose into the wind direction by applying rudder but my flight vector was not changing to the wind direction instead i was pushed further away from the runway. I tried it a couple of times but was increasing my throttle more and more and noticed i had to increase the throttle noticeable to be able to change my flight vector.

 

Quite logical if i think about it, but i'm ill at home and it seems that i can't think straight today. :joystick: :D

[jojo]

For cross wind landing, M-2000 is like F-16, you can't effectively cross rudder and stick to "uncrab" on touch down.

 

So you correct drift on final and just touch down sideways. The landing gear is designed to cope with that.

 

[Sarge55]

My understanding and after trying it... The Mirage does not require rudder input, the FBW handles that for you. If you try to use your rudder the system will try to correct and you end up with your nose drifting back and forth.

 

I just use the rudder on the ground, take-off, landing and NWS.

[CoBlue]

For cross wind landing, M-2000 is like F-16, you can't effectively cross rudder and stick to "uncrab" on touch down.

 

I was doing 16kt (8m/s) crosswind landings (crab) & every time I put down the nose-gear, the aircraft veered uncontrollably into the wind & out on the grass.

Feels like rudder becomes unresponsive after nose-gear touch-down.

 

 

I can do 25kts landings in all other jets in DCS, so is this a bug? or am I missing something with the M2000C?

 

Thanx!

[jojo]

I was doing 16kt (8m/s) crosswind landings (crab) & every time I put down the nose-gear, the aircraft veered uncontrollably into the wind & out on the grass.

Feels like rudder becomes unresponsive after nose-gear touch-down.

 

 

I can do 25kts landings in all other jets in DCS, so is this a bug? or am I missing something with the M2000C?

 

Thanx!

 

You should enable the nose wheel steering (DIRAV on M-2000C) as soon as the nose wheel hit the ground.

IRL the switch to do that is on the stick so it's quick and easy.

That switch also triggers IFF interrogation in the air. So it's nice to have it on its HOTAS in DCS too.

[Justin Case]

 

I haven't tried it in the Mirage yet but i guess this technique should be applicable to most aircraft.

[Rlaxoxo]

I have no problems landing with even the heavy crosswinds

 

Like for example in video here

 

[jojo]

I have no problems landing with even the heavy crosswinds

 

Like for example in video here

 

 

That's it, good skill :thumbup:

 

11m/s crosswind being 22kt, it's close to max crosswind (25kt).

[CoBlue]

You should enable the nose wheel steering (DIRAV on M-2000C) as soon as the nose wheel hit the ground.

IRL the switch to do that is on the stick so it's quick and easy.

That switch also triggers IFF interrogation in the air. So it's nice to have it on its HOTAS in DCS too.

 

The problem is the nose wheel steering won't engage when the nose wheel hits the ground at 150-140kts, it engages bellow app. 60kts(?), during that time the rudder isn't sufficient to keep the aircraft straight.

 

See track bellow please:

As soon as I have nose wheel contact I'm pushing nose wheel steering button, nothing happens? simultaneously I'm trying to counter with rudder to keep me straight, but it's not enough?

 

I'm thinking the longer ground roll-out that was recently tweaked, has bugged something?

 

I have no problems landing with even the heavy crosswinds Like for example in video here

 

Have you tried the same after latest patch?

 

Thanx!

Edited October 6, 2016 by CoBlue

[Rlaxoxo]

The problem is the nose wheel steering won't engage when the nose wheel hits the ground at 150-140kts, it engages bellow app. 60kts(?), during that time the rudder isn't sufficient to keep the aircraft straight.

 

Why just not simply use Left or Right wheel brake to stabilize?

So much easier then using Rudder or nose wheel steering

 

Have you tried the same after latest patch?

 

Just tried it now with even worse conditions and landed pretty well with no problems

 

Check the Uploaded Track and see for your self

Landing.trk

[CoBlue]

Why just not simply use Left or Right wheel brake to stabilize?

So much easier then using Rudder or nose wheel steering

Thanx!

I don't have rudder pedals, using twist grip on my joystick.

But that's not standard procedure in the M2000C for x-wind landings, or is it?

Are you able to engage nose-gear steering at 150-100kts?

 

Can you please retry without using differential braking?

If it has a demonstrated x-wind component of 25kts, rudder & nose-wheel steering should be sufficient.

[Rlaxoxo]

Thanx!

I don't have rudder pedals, using twist grip on my joystick.

But that's not standard procedure in the M2000C for x-wind landings, or is it?

Are you able to engage nose-gear steering at 150-100kts?

 

Can you please retry without using differential braking?

If it has a demonstrated x-wind component of 25kts, rudder & nose-wheel steering should be sufficient.

 

You're making no sense mate

 

Why would I not use brakes?

Just bind it to 2 buttons on your throttle, Joystick or keyboard.

You don't need paddles or Twist stick for that

Edited October 6, 2016 by Rlaxoxo

[Whisper]

Rudder won't be enough at low speed, differential braking is there to do the job at the end of the landing run. You don't need extreme winds for this, because in case of xwinds, you won't have a perfect alignment during the landing run, you are trying to keep centered with rudders until that runs out of authority, at which point you probably won't be centered perfectly either, necessiting correction via differential braking. If the xwind is creating issues at rudder authority speed, there's a good chance you'll have to keep centering at braking speed

 

Before getting my own rudder pedals, I used the 2 buttons on the back of my X-55 throttle for left & right brakes. Works really fine.

[CoBlue]

Think I found a bug (1.5), rudder becomes ineffective when using max brakes(both), when you release brakes rudder becomes effective again.

 

Do a ground test, 25kts x-wind, start take-off roll,

accelerate to 170kts> rudder holds centerline,

cut throttle to decelerate > rudder holds centerline

start max braking> rudder becomes ineffective? airplane veers into wind with full opposite rudder deflection...???

release brakes> rudder effective again

 

You can max brake & release brakes with full rudder deflection several times during the deceleration & see what happens to the directional control.

It's all happening in high speed regimes above 80kts, but even noticeable at lower speeds.

 

That's it, good skill

11m/s crosswind being 22kt, it's close to max crosswind (25kt).

FM is changed (now longer landing distance) since the video was done a month ago. Now we need to use brakes when landing ...which makes rudder ineffective! (see my bug above).

 

Just tried it now with even worse conditions and landed pretty well with no problems. Check the Uploaded Track and see for your self

You scraped the wing pretty hard, IRL that wouldn't have ended good. Also you used the chute which is questionable in strong x-wind.

But yeah it was a 37kts x-wind landing.....

 

Thanx!