Mirage Round-table- Discussions, tactics, videos

[Voodooflies]

p2aIUt5kMEI

 

Why you want to maintain SA. I was initially looking to rejoin the fight about 15 miles away after getting 4 quick missile kills and still having 2300kg fuel left, then I saw an RWR spike and looked at him right as he shot. A couple of defeated missiles, some maneuvering, and awful shooting later I splashed him.

 

The roll rate advantage is HUGE here.

 

Yeah, that 21 better hide in those damageless trees. :lol:

[ttaylor0024]

Yeah, that 21 better hide in those damageless trees. :lol:

 

Really blends in down there with that camo! I forgot trees still weren't collideable and thought I was going to blow up the entire time I was treetop level.

[Asek]

Its over :(, the server go off no more fun :(

[0xDEADBEEF]

Ahh that server is sooo much fun! guess it will turn back on, no?

[stephane]

Ok, good kills then :thumbup:

 

The tip may be useful for someone else...

 

en effet ca aide pas mal ! merci

[jojo]

Glad to help :smilewink:

[Jugdriver]

Its over :(, the server go off no more fun :(

 

The server is back up. I hope they keep it going, it is a lot of fun.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[ttaylor0024]

The server is back up. I hope they keep it going, it is a lot of fun.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

 

Yeah, it's getting pretty big now. The last few days I've been having some pretty crazy lag spikes though. Today I was in a dogfight, the game stuttered for about 10 seconds then I blew up. I was pretty happy to say the least.

[Jugdriver]

I have had the same issue, except my game has crashed a couple of times instead of recovering from the freeze. Sometimes it runs smoothy sometimes it is a lag fest and big freezes.

 

I hope after 2.0 becomes offical they will spend some time on the net code.

 

On a side note I have been getting smaked around by the R3, even in head on shots a couple of times. I think our Mig driving friends have taken a shine to that missle and the IFF feature.

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[ttaylor0024]

I have had the same issue, except my game has crashed a couple of times instead of recovering from the freeze. Sometimes it runs smoothy sometimes it is a lag fest and big freezes.

 

It took me 4 tries to connect to the server today, DCS kept force closing upon loadup of it.

[Frostie]

Don't understand why F5 has been added to the server, it's becoming arcade shooter.

[Jugdriver]

Didnt even realize, I will register for their forum and ask them to take it out.

 

http://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/forum/index.php

 

Good Kill by the way, sneaky, I like it!

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[Jugdriver]

Ok I made a post in the ACG forum regarding their server and the padlock setting, it has over 40 views and no response. I bumped it but it might take a few more people to post to get them to change it.

 

http://www.aircombatgroup.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5378&p=69158#p69158

 

JD

AKA_MattE

[LuSi_6]

don't like it, don't use it. Easy, isn't it?

[Rlaxoxo]

Well, it's based on distance and G like the F-86F sight (Or LCOS), the line just tells you where the rounds can end up going. You have to be in stable G for a second or so for it to be accurate, I would think.

 

Please ... F-86 sight is much easier to use then following this snake man ...

 

don't like it, don't use it. Easy, isn't it?

 

Yes but this is basically a cheat that people can use and find you instantly, which is a turn off for these kind of fights when you're behind a guy thinking you're on him and he's unaware and then suddenly he starts maneuvering cus he saw you on F5 view ...

 

It's not enjoyable for some

Edited January 10, 2016 by Rlaxoxo

[PiedDroit]

Well, it's based on distance and G like the F-86F sight (Or LCOS), the line just tells you where the rounds can end up going. You have to be in stable G for a second or so for it to be accurate, I would think.

Actually, the snake represent the history of your gunshot if you were shooting continuously it takes maneuvering in account.

When you have radar lock the piper will represent where the rounds would have been after travelling the same distance that separate you from your target.

 

To use it accurately you must be in stable flight, however it is not necessary to put the piper exactly on the target.

What you need to do is to make sure the target meets the piper after you shoot. What I usually do is place my piper in a position I anticipate the target will be on, and I time my shot so the target passes on the piper just when the bullets arrive there.

 

I have attached a track, replay worked for me, I hope it will for you, don't use time acceleration and make sure to run the track from a fresh run of DCS (to avoid radar bugs) (typo in the track name, just noticed :D).

M-2000C dogflight.trk

Edited January 10, 2016 by PiedDroit

[PiedDroit]

I have attached a track, replay worked for me, I hope it will for you, don't use time acceleration and make sure to run the track from a fresh run of DCS (to avoid radar bugs) (typo in the track name, just noticed :D).

The replay worked one out of three/four times actually (if the MiG-29 is hit two passes and RTB it means it's replaying OK)...

 

Here are a couple of screenshots from the latest kill (against Su-27), the one that you're more likely to not see, first image is taken when shooting starts, second image after the shells hit.

 

On first pass the target is above the piper and is sliding downwards as I'm pulling some Gs, so I fire early and the target is hit right after.

On second pass, the Su-27 was not destroyed, it is now below the piper and I'm letting it slide upwards, I fire a bit before he crossed the shell path, on left wing.

 

The point I want to make is that you shouldn't try to use the sight as you would for an F-15 or Su-27 sight, because those are also taking the target motion into account where this one is not.

If you try to keep your target inside the piper while firing you'll have a lot of miss. Instead, use the snake and the piper to predict where your shells will be and try to make them meet your target.

 

Edited January 11, 2016 by PiedDroit

[jojo]

Text book gun kills :thumbup:

 

You've mastered the snake.

[PiedDroit]

Text book gun kills :thumbup:

You've mastered the snake.

Thanks! I had a lot of fun with those guns :joystick:, my first sims where WWII, this is where I feel most at home. I wish I was half as good with missiles :cry:.

[Zeus67]

The replay worked one out of three/four times actually (if the MiG-29 is hit two passes and RTB it means it's replaying OK)...

 

Here are a couple of screenshots from the latest kill (against Su-27), the one that you're more likely to not see, first image is taken when shooting starts, second image after the shells hit.

 

On first pass the target is above the piper and is sliding downwards as I'm pulling some Gs, so I fire early and the target is hit right after.

On second pass, the Su-27 was not destroyed, it is now below the piper and I'm letting it slide upwards, I fire a bit before he crossed the shell path, on left wing.

 

The point I want to make is that you shouldn't try to use the sight as you would for an F-15 or Su-27 sight, because those are also taking the target motion into account where this one is not.

If you try to keep your target inside the piper while firing you'll have a lot of miss. Instead, use the snake and the piper to predict where your shells will be and try to make them meet your target.

 

 

Your images are good. :thumbup: Can I borrow them for the manual?

[PiedDroit]

Your images are good. :thumbup: Can I borrow them for the manual?

Sure no problem :thumbup:

[Croaker47]

Actually, the snake represent the history of your gunshot if you were shooting continuously it takes maneuvering in account.

When you have radar lock the piper will represent where the rounds would have been after travelling the same distance that separate you from your target.

 

To use it accurately you must be in stable flight, however it is not necessary to put the piper exactly on the target.

What you need to do is to make sure the target meets the piper after you shoot. What I usually do is place my piper in a position I anticipate the target will be on, and I time my shot so the target passes on the piper just when the bullets arrive there.

 

I have attached a track, replay worked for me, I hope it will for you, don't use time acceleration and make sure to run the track from a fresh run of DCS (to avoid radar bugs) (typo in the track name, just noticed :D).

 

I feel under the impression that the snap-snake (With pipper) and the Sabre sight have similar use with different GUIs. Both are limited to radar ranging and information coming from only what their own platforms are doing. The Gs being pulled are represented by the ranging ticks on the snake moving down the line, and they have manual wingspan settings represented in some manner (Wingspan setting on the snake works a bit like having two Sabre pippers set for 300-600). I don't find myself using it much differently, though standard LCOS sans lock is much closer to the GUI of a Sabre sight. The snake would appear to have a higher G-limit for use, and higher accuracy at those Gs, presuming a target withing the same Plane of Motion for high-G tracks.

 

Your explanation is far better though. I'm still moving (So internet on PC isn't available yet), but I'll have a look at that track when I can. The screenshots look like you're getting lead to walk rounds on target, which is what I usually do; I tend to have more trouble with tracking shots than something closer to snap-shooting.

 

Nice screenshots by the way, good capture times.

 

Please ... F-86 sight is much easier to use then following this snake man ...

 

Debatable, I don't really prefer either method (Snap or LCOS). All things considered I'd rather be in a Mirage without lock than a Sabre without lock (Easier to judge fires without ranging information within same POM, at least for me). The snake does produce plenty of screen clutter though, and it could be easy to be distracted by the snake's motions.

[ttaylor0024]

I've been doing the same thing with the gunsight after that last awful shooting video i posted last week, and it's been working well. Since then I've upgraded monitors and got a new HOTAS, so I'll have more content to pump out shortly! Nice to see this being used for some good!

[PiedDroit]

I feel under the impression that the snap-snake (With pipper) and the Sabre sight have similar use with different GUIs.[...]The screenshots look like you're getting lead to walk rounds on target, which is what I usually do; I tend to have more trouble with tracking shots than something closer to snap-shooting.

Yep, probably if you could have several simulatenous Sabre sights set at different distances it will look like a snake.

 

Yes, I'm trying to "walk" the piper on the target at a fixed rate to be able to estimate the moment of firing.

However the purpose of firing early isn't to walk the target into a stream of bullets, the purpose is to time the shots so the piper ends up on the target at the time the bullet have traveled the distance.

If I'm unsure of the time of flight, which can be difficult to estimate at long range or if the target is traversing at high rate, I might fire a little earlier with a little longer burst, which actually would end up in walking the target into a stream of bullets (but this is not the initial intent).

 

I find this method easier than trying to do a pure tracking shot (no apparent target motion), because I can fire almost immediately, rather than wait to be stabilized.

Also this tracking shot opportunity may never appear because if the target is maneuvering or changing speed, you'll have to constantly adjust, not getting that tracking position. Or worse, if you think you are tracking (piper on target, no apparent motion) and the target maneuvers - which is more likely if it was stable for a while - your shot will miss and be wasted.

 

This is why I suggested not to try firing with target exactly on the piper, because it requires more time to settle and is more likely to miss.

Those "mini-snapshots" are far more effective IMO.

 

P.S.: I put the track at half speed to take those pictures ;)

Edited January 11, 2016 by PiedDroit

[OnlyforDCS]

I've been doing the same thing with the gunsight after that last awful shooting video i posted last week, and it's been working well. Since then I've upgraded monitors and got a new HOTAS, so I'll have more content to pump out shortly! Nice to see this being used for some good!

 

What monitor (resolution) are you using? I'm really terrible at WVR in DCS mostly due to losing SA and the bogey, so Im thinking of upgrading my monitor.