iLOVEwindmills Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 (edited) What I read about the missile lead me to believe it would perform roughly similar to an AIM9M, but it honestly feels like I'm using an all-aspect R60. The motor burns so incredibly short, and it then decelerates so hard that it absolutely struggles to hit anything outside of throwing distance. Even 2km isn't easy for it against a slow, non-manoeuvring target in a tail chase. The ingame encyclopedia gives it almost identical stats to an R60, with both listed as having 5km range, 18G max and mach 2 max. Though I do not know how representative these are for the actual ingame performance, it does feel about right. It's definitely not a bad missile, at least as long as you fire it really close. But was it really that short ranged? EDIT: Just to be clear, I know there are a lot of misgivings about missiles in general, but that's not exactly what I was going for. I'm really just surprised that it performs more like an R60 than like a Sidewinder, as I expected it to be way more like the latter in terms of range etc. Edited December 27, 2015 by iLOVEwindmills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttaylor0024 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 It's a bug on EDs end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muppetlord Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Not nearly as bad as the 530D tho. Like you said as soon as the motor burns out it runt in to a Wall. This is my biggest issue by far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_corleone Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 All missiles need serious fixing! from ED or RAZBAM Side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLOVEwindmills Posted December 27, 2015 Author Share Posted December 27, 2015 It's a bug on EDs end I know missiles are done by ED, but do you mean it's confirmed to use the wrong stats atm? I don't really keep up that much with the whole ingame vs real life missiles debate, so really I'm just comparing it to the other ingame missiles. That's why I compared it to the AIM9M ingame, which way exceeds it in range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 The only a word is that missiles are Work In Progress and that they aren't going to use p/K ratios but instead something else, If I Remember Correctly it was a/K that will be more accurate and realistic than the common values people throw at web (p/K). The missiles are total mess right now. There really isn't NEZ or realistic ranges etc. Missiles doesn't even know where to target or how to fly. Looking missile POV you can see how they just suddenly turn and turn but keep going on original heading without any drag effects. Catches flares and chaff like alcoholics going after bottle of booze. What should be realistic values are known by manufacturers and estimated by ED etc. But example R-60M being less trustworthy than a spear that pilot would throw doesn't sound trustworthy at all for current modeling. The core features in DCS are currently under heavy work. They have got the graphics improved so now they need to improve simulation of radar, lasers, chaff, flares, AI etc from a very basic geometrics to something more complex. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 It would be unfair if it the only realistic missile in game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I decided to test this and it seems you are right. I am gathering some data which I will share as soon as I'm done. What I can say in the meantime is that the R.550 Magic 2 seems to be hitting a wall and decelerates much quicker than an AIM-9M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 I'm no expert, but I think there is reason to doubt that the current R.550 Magic 2 is simulated properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted December 27, 2015 Share Posted December 27, 2015 Possible bug R.550 Magic 2 DCS 1.5.2.48162.126 R.550 Magic 2 performance looks strange. Launch parameters: 5000m ASL, 760km/h TAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 R550 Magic 2 performance I'm no expert, but I think there is reason to doubt that the current R.550 Magic 2 is simulated properly. Im no expert either but it's clearly bugged. The R60M can't be better. I notice that you launched it faster than the others as well so it could be even a bit worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yeah, it definitely looks strange. Out of curiosity: What was the altitude of that test? DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Im no expert either but it's clearly bugged. The R60M can't be better. I notice that you launched it faster than the others as well No, launch speed was the same. It just accelerated faster. The zero-mark is actually a point in time just after the launch. TacView would not give me a speed reading of the missile at the exact moment it spawned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Out of curiosity: What was the altitude of that test? 5000m ASL or 16 400ft ASL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomCatMucDe Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 No, launch speed was the same. It just accelerated faster. The zero-mark is actually a point in time just after the launch. TacView would not give me a speed reading of the missile at the exact moment it spawned. I see. So it accelerates faster than the others but loses speed way faster than the R60 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aginor Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Yeah, a lot of drag it seems. DCSW weapons cheat sheet speed cheat sheet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iLOVEwindmills Posted December 28, 2015 Author Share Posted December 28, 2015 Interesting chart, the Magic speed has pretty much 'can't be right' written all over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirscorpion Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Great chart there is something wrong with the missile for sure, can we get one for the super530 Vs R27 and Aim7? Thank you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Yeah, from what little Ive seen currently the missile performs better from front aspect than rear, mainly due to the terrible, terrible performance after its engine kicks out. Really strange as it didn't seem to be so terrible when Zeus posted some tacviews of it prior to release. Edited December 28, 2015 by OnlyforDCS Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
il_corleone Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Can we create a post on DCS bugs or ED devs will see this thread? I`ve also seen the Magic 2 is a rock when out of boost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Can we create a post on DCS bugs or ED devs will see this thread? I`ve also seen the Magic 2 is a rock when out of boost... I don't think ED devs will pay much attention to these or any other 3rd party threads, but hopefully Zeus or CptSmiley will notice and take some action. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 If you guys feel the missiles are not acting correctly, lets find some numbers. Zeus posted on other threads that ED needs numbers not "This feels wrong" So if we can find sources, even of other missiles, that can point to discrepancies on the current behavior will be more helpful. Not much info on the Matra Magic 2 specifically, but I think it might be a start This are direct PDF links [ame=http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p010399.pdf]Technologies for Future Precision Strike Missile Systems-Missile Aeromechanics Technology[/ame] To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brisse Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 Can we create a post on DCS bugs or ED devs will see this thread? I`ve also seen the Magic 2 is a rock when out of boost... I made a bug report in the 1.5 open beta section yesterday on the same topic, including the chart I made. Great chart there is something wrong with the missile for sure, can we get one for the super530 Vs R27 and Aim7? Thank you Sorry, it's a little bit too time consuming. I don't have Tacview professional so I had to enter all the data manually in a spread sheet. Someone with Tacview professional would be able to make the same thing much easier, since it has some chart and export functions that I don't have access too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnlyforDCS Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 If you guys feel the missiles are not acting correctly, lets find some numbers. Zeus posted on other threads that ED needs numbers not "This feels wrong" So if we can find sources, even of other missiles, that can point to discrepancies on the current behavior will be more helpful. Not much info on the Matra Magic 2 specifically, but I think it might be a start This are direct PDF links Technologies for Future Precision Strike Missile Systems-Missile Aeromechanics Technology Did you miss Brisse's Tacview chart? The Magic II is performing much worse than even the ancient R60 missile in the game...Im sure that is not correct behavior. Current specs: Windows 10 Home 64bit, i5-9600K @ 3.7 Ghz, 32GB DDR4 RAM, 1TB Samsung EVO 860 M.2 SSD, GAINWARD RTX2060 6GB, Oculus Rift S, MS FFB2 Sidewinder + Warthog Throttle Quadrant, Saitek Pro rudder pedals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvsgas Posted December 28, 2015 Share Posted December 28, 2015 (edited) Did you miss Brisse's Tacview chart? The Magic II is performing much worse than even the ancient R60 missile in the game...Im sure that is not correct behavior. But how do we know is not intended that way? What says is not correct? Remember, you have to convince ED that is wrong. If they went by every user's opinion the game will change every 5 seconds because every one has a different opinion. For all I know this is could be why the Mirage 2000C was not as successful as other aircraft in foreign sales. Edited December 28, 2015 by mvsgas To whom it may concern, I am an idiot, unfortunately for the world, I have a internet connection and a fondness for beer....apologies for that. Thank you for you patience. Many people don't want the truth, they want constant reassurance that whatever misconception/fallacies they believe in are true.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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