Improved FLIR Simulation

[Aeger]

Another example to illustrate the problem... I created a mission and added friendly APC's out in the open, used the world labels to find them on my HUD, and slewed the TGP over a label in order to find one (otherwise, I wouldn't have been able to spot it).

 

Judging by the TGP picture, can you say you would have spotted it? Clearly something isn't working right :(

 

Edit: Good FLIR example (non-violent):

 

[ame]

[/ame]

Edited December 22, 2015 by Aeger

[trindade]

I'm not much of complaining but I've to agree, right now TGP is almost useless, I really hope ED give some attention to this problem.

[StandingCow]

This was never a bug and has been spoken about for years. FLIR is simply derived from the original textures placed under an effect. Yes it would be nice to have real FLIR, i'm not sure if it's fallen to the bottom of the wishlist because when i last contributed to a thread about it DCS World didn't even exist, it was merely A-10C as a standalone.

 

What I have noticed is that with the advent of new ground textures and vehicle textures and all the many other addons, the original design of using a graphics effect no longer holds as a useful effect. My folks especially moaned about visibility of ground vehicles on the Starway desert terrain which makes vehicles yellow too. I suspect the new graphics engine also changed the original design goal and thus we've drifted slighty from what's hoped for and maybe expected.

 

Given the A-10C or TGP pod is only used on one module which is out of beta and complete, there is even less recourse for action. I think ED is aware and generally if the products are workable there might not be changes. The best recourse would be to provide an un-ignorable volume of feedback, olr if Nevada or Hormuz break it even more.

 

The upcoming F/A-18 has a TGP, so that would give the issue more visibility I would think.

 

Would be nice to see ED at least acknowledge that they are aware of the issue.

[Mike77]

The upcoming F/A-18 has a TGP, so that would give the issue more visibility I would think.

 

Would be nice to see ED at least acknowledge that they are aware of the issue.

 

 

+1 on both points.

 

 

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[bgrade]

yep TGP worked much better in 1.2, now in 1.5 it is practically useless, the trucks blend in perfectly with the ground.

[Yurgon]

A-10C TGP Vehicles Almost Invisible

 

In 1.5 OpenBeta, vehicles blend with the ground clutter in all TGP modes, depending on terrain. At night in WHOT/BHOT modes, the contrast between vehicles and ground is so low that they become almost invisible, or even fully invisible.

 

The attached screenshots demonstrate the difference between 1.2.16 and 1.5.2, however there are many screenshots around the forum with TGP fully zoomed in where vehicles are actually invisible/indistinguishable. I'll update the report or post follow-ups when I come across good examples.

 

Mission from the screenshots is attached, last saved in 1.5 but should run okay in 1.2.

 

Kobuleti Training Range, 1.2, all okay:

 

Kobuleti Training Range, 1.5, still okay:

 

Group of targets, 37T GH 07489 31287, 1.2, FOV Wide, zoomed in, okay:

 

Same as above in 1.5, FOV Wide, zoomed in, hardly visible:

 

Group of targets, 37T GH 07489 31287, 1.2, FOV Narrow, okay:

 

Same as above in 1.5, FOV Narrow, Barely visible:

 

Edit #1: Possible duplicate of A10C TGP, seeing through objects with FLIR

 

Edit #2: Thread was moved and merged into DCS Wishlist for unknown reason

A-10C_TGP_Demo.miz

Edited December 28, 2015 by Yurgon

[Yurgon]

Has this issue been rwported as a bug? Has anyone seen the topic somewhere in bug reporta for 1.5?

 

D'Oh! All the time I was thinking this must have been reported a thousand times already, but I couldn't find any mention of it in the Bugs and Problems forum, so here we go: A-10C TGP Vehicles Almost Invisible.

 

Guys, if you have screenshots, videos or other evidence of invisible vehicles or other objects, please append them to the bug report to further illustrate the issue. I made a quick test mission, but I know there are much stronger examples out there. :thumbup:

[bzhnono]

I have to +1 this.

It is really difficult. I started the Tactical Training missions from Maple Flag and the first mission TT11 is really difficult because you have to use JTAC to give you coordinate of the target and then find it with TGP and some tanks are nearly invisible (even if it is at a few metres from the coordinate given by JTAC !)

 

I'll try to make screenshots tonight showing this !

[tintifaxl]

+1.

[Angel101]

+1 I hope for when they finish the 2.0 release then they can look at this and bring us a FLIR system similar to the Arma 3, I know it's not perfect but at least more useful.

[Rangi]

It would be nice to here from someone who has experienced real world TPG or FLIR use. It may be the new way is more realistic, but I don't know. My experience with 1st gen thermal imagers is (from memory 20yrs ago) that somewhere in between the 1.2 and new patch fidelity would be right, but the technology has most likely moved on somewhat from those times.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Rangi
even tipsy people should spell correctly

[Blooze]

My observations from 3 years of experience with the A-10C cause me to conclude that the difference between 1.2 and 1.5 regarding this issue has nothing to do with the TGP's performance but rather the change made to the terrain textures and enhanced lighting effects. I had the same experience in 1.2 when using terrain mods that was quickly resolved by going back to the default textures. These enhanced terrain textures in 1.5 coupled with the difference in lighting effects brought to the table with EDGE make things look much better from the pit but act as camouflage for the TGP and the A-10C is the only aircraft that suffers.

[StandingCow]

Agreed. Here are some screen shots I have saved... just try and spot the tanks (they are there not centered). ED could you please let us know you are aware of this? It's gonna be a big problem on the F/A-18 as well. Thanks! :)

 

 

Tanks is just top and left of the crosshair.

 

Just on top of the crosshair:

Edited December 23, 2015 by StandingCow

[StandingCow]

D'Oh! All the time I was thinking this must have been reported a thousand times already, but I couldn't find any mention of it in the Bugs and Problems forum, so here we go: A-10C TGP Vehicles Almost Invisible.

 

Guys, if you have screenshots, videos or other evidence of invisible vehicles or other objects, please append them to the bug report to further illustrate the issue. I made a quick test mission, but I know there are much stronger examples out there. :thumbup:

 

I know there was a thread about this issue somewhere... but can't for the life of me remember where. Think in the A-10 section. I haven't seen ED acknowledge it yet though.

 

Edit: here is mine: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=153396

[tifafan]

Same problem to me.......FLIR is totally useless sometimes.It's really hard to spot a vehicle at certain area......Please solve this problem ED!

[Ranger79]

I don't think it has been announced for 2.0, but it has been a long standing item on the wishlist. Unfortunately it is one that requires skinning of all vehicles in the game with a separate heat texture, which is a *massive* undertaking.

Sobek,

 

I would be willing to help with reskinning the vehicles if needed.

[Razor18]

My recommendation would be: Set the resolution of the MFD to a higher resolution in your Preferences.

 

How can you do that?

 

Thanks

[StandingCow]

How can you do that?

 

Thanks

 

Don't worry about changing it, it makes no difference to how difficult tanks are to spot. The screenshots I posted are with the TGP at max res.

[Razor18]

Don't worry about changing it, it makes no difference to how difficult tanks are to spot. The screenshots I posted are with the TGP at max res.

 

OK, I just want to know that, without having the original problem. I still use 1.2.xx.. :smilewink:

[Bob Denny]

I have over 100 hours' experience with current high-end FLIR, specifically the Star SAFIRE HD. It is unbelievably good, especially when you adjust the gain and level manually for the conditions. I am brand new with DCS A-10C so I know nothing about skinning or ??? whatever ??? But I suspect the writer who says the objects would need separate skins for thermal imaging would be right.

[jcbak]

:thumbup:

My observations from 3 years of experience with the A-10C cause me to conclude that the difference between 1.2 and 1.5 regarding this issue has nothing to do with the TGP's performance but rather the change made to the terrain textures and enhanced lighting effects. I had the same experience in 1.2 when using terrain mods that was quickly resolved by going back to the default textures. These enhanced terrain textures in 1.5 coupled with the difference in lighting effects brought to the table with EDGE make things look much better from the pit but act as camouflage for the TGP and the A-10C is the only aircraft that suffers.

+1 Agreed

[Ghostraider]

How does it work in reallife: [ame]

[/ame]

[electro_monkey]

I replaced vfstextures folder with one from my 1.2 installation and looks like FLIR works fine now.

[baltic_dragon]

Damn, and I have just deleted my 1.2 install.. How much do these textures weigh?

[bgrade]

I tried replacing the textures and did a quick test flight, it appears to work better now, will have to test further.

 

The file sizes are around 1.2gb