AV-8B Harrier Thread

[Kev2go]

Please just admit the FA2 was not an A10 with amraams on it so we can move on with our lives.

 

I never said that, i only said that A10 would simply have better Self defense if it had search radar plus AMRAMS.

 

But its not really nessary given that the A10 is a CAS platform and its not supposed be operating in contested airspace anyhow. Besides considering how the AF wants to kill the A10, in favour of spreading its duties among the F35 and other existing platforms i doubt A10 would ever really get any such upgrades, let alone any further A/G improvements. Du to funding cuts even the Suite 9 updates are no longer going to be applied.

 

 

 

Sorry, I mentioned Vietnam, there are enough other conflicts that had similar outcomes.

 

 

 

and yet there are equally plenty of examples were superior Technology ( and/ or larger Force of military) dictated a victorious outcome.

 

Take the Zulu war for example how a firearms were a huge force multiplier against foes that did not have them. Smaller continent of British soldiers with breech loading rifles, artillery, Field Guns and Machine guns were able to beat larger superior #'s of Zulu warriors armed with nothing but spears, and bows. proof that superior technology behaves as a force multiplier on its own.

 

or the battle of Omdurmn which ended in complete British & Egyptian victory agaisnt the Sudan, over much larger force.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kev2go

[shagrat]

Whoa there.....I hate to be this guy, but the US politicians lost Vietnam. I feel it is clear to make that distinction because a score of 58,000-ish vs around a million is hardly a loss. It sucks that any lives had to be wasted there at all, but man vs man we whipped that ass while fighting a losing battle politically.

 

"At no point in history has a man ever been asked to hand the enemy his ass on a platter, then snatch it away at the last second and hit him over the head with it." How fitting, but a lot more heads were hit than asses taken away.......

Winning a war has nothing to do with body count... Also a lesson from history.

I agree the US politicians made a lot of mistakes that added to the outcome, but the biggest was to think you can defeat an "idea" with force.

 

But we are now getting really of topic.

 

Sorry, I mentioned Vietnam, there are enough other conflicts that had similar outcomes.

[Robert31178]

I never said that, i only said that A10 would simply have better Self defense if it had search radar plus AMRAMS.

 

Then the USAF could just stick with Vipers for all missions since it has both, and already does CAS/SEAD right?

[Kev2go]

Then the USAF could just stick with Vipers for all missions since it has both, and already does CAS/SEAD right?

 

yes they could read my edit.

 

though admittedly even the A10 is hard to let go off due to unique characters for the CAS mission. even flying it in DCS, I have to say i love the Loiter time it has on Internal fuel as well as the huge bomb loads you can take.

Edited April 14, 2017 by Kev2go

[Revelation]

Winning a war has nothing to do with body count... Also a lesson from history.

I agree the US politicians made a lot of mistakes that added to the outcome, but the biggest was to think you can defeat an "idea" with force.

But we are now getting really of topic.

 

Sorry, I mentioned Vietnam, there are enough other conflicts that had similar outcomes.

 

You actually can, though you have to be ruthless. When pansies make policy decisions that inhibit the ability to kill the enemy wherever they may be, you effect the outcome.

 

For instance, human shields have been used many times, knowing full well that politicians would rather the target stand instead of having dead women and children on TV the next day. In Afghanistan and Iraq, weapons and fighters often were kept/stayed in mosques since it was policy not to attack such places.

 

When you direct your military forces to "rebuild" instead of annihilating the enemy, you will effect the outcome.

 

It doesn't stop there, I can go on if you wish.

[Sarge55]

Hmmm... looks more like a troll thread rather than a Harrier thread. If a clean up happens we'll probably drop 10 pages.

[shagrat]

Hmmm... looks more like a troll thread rather than a Harrier thread. If a clean up happens we'll probably drop 10 pages.

[Kev2go]

You actually can, though you have to be ruthless. When pansies make policy decisions that inhibit the ability to kill the enemy wherever they may be, you effect the outcome.

 

For instance, human shields have been used many times, knowing full well that politicians would rather the target stand instead of having dead women and children on TV the next day. In Afghanistan and Iraq, weapons and fighters often were kept/stayed in mosques since it was policy not to attack such places.

 

When you direct your military forces to "rebuild" instead of annihilating the enemy, you will effect the outcome.

 

It doesn't stop there, I can go on if you wish.

 

 

and yet at the same time if you are too aggressive without any setbacks you are essentially going to create animosity from civilian population towards you. YOu kill somones family even by accident they might just be overcome by emotion against the foreign occupiers. and itl contribute to an insurgency.

 

 

better option is using diplomacy or political maneuvering to not go to war in the first place.

 

In the example of vietnam It would have been more practical realpolitk to just forget about anti communist Rhetoric Support Ho CHi Minh, since in in any case he admired the US for thier war of independence for the british, and would have liked them to have positive relations in the world stage.

 

Remember how Nixon crated a rift between soviets by getting cozy with china? similarity would have applied if they just supported the more motivated Vietnamese Northerners. since they werent Chinese or Moscow puttets by any means despite form of gov't or beliefs.

[Vitormouraa]

Hmmm... looks more like a troll thread rather than a Harrier thread. If a clean up happens we'll probably drop 10 pages.

Agreed.

[Kev2go]

Hmmm... looks more like a troll thread rather than a Harrier thread. If a clean up happens we'll probably drop 10 pages.

 

Ok, going off topic or Digressing is not by Any means trolling It happens sometimes.

 

 

im sure most can make distinction between the two, because its not the same.

[Sarge55]

Now you're trolling me... really dude?

[shagrat]

 

better option is using diplomacy or political maneuvering to not go to war in the first place.

 

In the example of vietnam It would have been more practical realpolitk to just forget about anti communist Rhetoric Support Ho CHi Minh, since in in any case he admired the US for thier war of independence for the british, and would have liked them to have positive relations in the world stage.

 

Remember how Nixon crated a rift between soviets by getting cozy with china? similarity would have applied if they just supported the more motivated Vietnamese Northerners. since they werent Chinese or Moscow puttets by any means despite form of gov't or beliefs.

Very valid and good arguments.

 

Here I totally agree!

 

A war, never is a good thing in the first place.

Unfortunately politicians don't stand in the Frontline, when the shit hits the fan.

 

Guess if they were we would have less conflicts to worry about.

[Sarge55]

Now you're trolling the anti troll post... lol. :thumbup:

[shagrat]

I think someone should really clean this thread... I apologize for having been carried away.

 

It happens to all of us, sometimes. :dunno:

[asla36]

Ok... Now after all of that, lets get back on topic! :)

 

How was the EW suite on the harrier? How much can we expect from it? Does it even have one? That's 4 "?'s"! :I

Edited April 14, 2017 by asla36
Numbahs... :O

[Harry.R]

Not sure about the AV8B EW (ECM) in particular, but if it is anything like the one in the UK version then it was very good (for the time). Any more updates? :)

[Bruce448]

The AN/ALQ-126 Charger Blue is an electronic countermeasures (ECM) system manufactured by Sanders and evolved from the earlier AN/ALQ-100. It was originally developed by the US Navy Naval Air Systems Command for its Tactical Air Electronic Warfare programme. As such, the system was designed to provide wider frequency coverage (D through I-band - 1 to 10 GHz) than the service's earlier AN/ALQ-100 DECM equipment and was initiated in response to a range of new air and surface threats. While all US Navy and US Marine Corps aircraft carried internal AN/ALQ-126 defensive ECM equipment, the US Air Force had fallen behind with plans to fit the internal AN/ALQ-165 ASPJ DECM and had to rely on a somewhat diverse collection of AN/ALQ-131, AN/ALQ-184, AN/ALQ-119 and AN/ALQ-101 jamming pods to protect the F-16 Fighting Falcon, A-10 Thunderbolt II and F-4 Phantom II.

Description

 

The AN/ALQ-126A/B is a trackbreaker defensive jammer effective against pulse mode threats. Exposure to SA-6B SAMs and other Continuous Wave threats necessitates the fitting of additional defensive jammers such as AN/ALQ-162. Combined with the AN/ALQ-162 continuous wave and pulse doppler jammer, the AN/ALQ-126 makes the AN/ALQ-164 jamming pod, used with the Boeing (McDonnell Douglas) AV-8B Harrier II.

[Bruce448]

AN/ALQ-126B provides E, F, G, H, I/J band coverage and implements several techniques effective against pulse mode and conical scanning radars. Delivering over 1 Kw of jam power per band in pulse mode, the AN/ALQ-126B modes include mainlobe blanking, inverse con-scan, range-gate pull-off and swept square wave which make it particularly potent against established Soviet conically scanning systems such as the SA-6/Straight Flush tracking/illuminating radar or the ZSU-23-4P/Gun Dish fire control radar. In a high threat environment the ALQ-126 would be supplemented with a Northrop AN/ALQ-162 Compass Sail/Clockwise continuous wave jammer which is effective against CW threats such as the SA-6 Gainful family of semi-active radar guided SAMs.

Edited April 15, 2017 by Bruce448

[Bruce448]

The ECM/EW fit on the UK's Gr7/9's was the Marconi Zeus ECM system, a Plessey "Missile Approach Warning (MAW)" system, and Swedish Bofors BOL chaff dispensers. The Zeus included an RWR that could identify 1,000 different types of emitters and activate its self-defense jammer automatically to meet a specific threat. The MAW could automatically dispense chaff when a missile attack was detected.

[frixon28]

A few minutes later...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit - If someone can tell me how to get the images to show up it would be epic, just saying

Edited April 15, 2017 by frixon28
Epic Fail

[CrashO]

A few minutes later...

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edit - If someone can tell me how to get the images to show up it would be epic, just saying

You needed to embed the image url (so ending with .jpg) not the page displaying them.

So in your case they where

https://i.imgflip.com/1na1hq.jpg
https://i.imgflip.com/1na1kx.jpg

[asla36]

The ECM/EW fit on the UK's Gr7/9's was the Marconi Zeus ECM system, a Plessey "Missile Approach Warning (MAW)" system, and Swedish Bofors BOL chaff dispensers. The Zeus included an RWR that could identify 1,000 different types of emitters and activate its self-defense jammer automatically to meet a specific threat. The MAW could automatically dispense chaff when a missile attack was detected.

Some nice data you got there! :thumbup:

 

Gonna be an interesting plane to fly! :D

[frixon28]

Thanks Crash O

[Exile5121]

Right, i cant find the article but can anyone verify that the av8B CAN use the AIM9X (internally recognised as a P buf able to track better / attack soft and hot ground targets but forgoing the high off boresight attack capability)

Edited April 16, 2017 by Exile5121

[mvsgas]

Right, i cant find the article but can anyone verify that the av8B CAN use the AIM9X (internally recognised as a P buf able to track better / attack soft and hot ground targets but forgoing the high off boresight attack capability)

 

AFAIK, no the AV8B in USMC service does not carry the AIM-9X. Why do you think they "internally recognize it as P"? The AIM-9P is an export version rarely use by US forces.