Zeus67 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Okay Folks, let´s calm down a bit. 1. The hot spot detector will be implemented since the real aircraft has it. Our only concern is FPS stability. 2. The NAVFLIR is not a radar. It is not steerable although it is stabilized to keep it pointing down. It has a narrow FOV, no more than 20° overall since it can fill the HUD. 3. Yes, the hot spot detector is quite sensible and can see sunlight reflecting on something shiny and display it in the HUD/MPCD. But none of these false terrain returns last more than 4 seconds. A detected hot vehicle would remain in the display far longer than that. The manual advises the pilot about these false returns in order to make him understand that they are a normal feature and not an indication of sensor damage. 4. Overpowered? Who ever claimed that combat is a fair fight? The hot spot detector was developed by the British, since GR.7 was the first to have it, to help pilots with their Mk 1 eyeball detector. Americans would rather use radar, thus the Plus version. And the Plus version also has the NAVFLIR with its hot spot detector. 5. I cannot put in the HUD any TGP data if the documentation I have says that there is no TGP/HUD integration. That may have changed with later versions but I have nothing, not even symbology so unless someone gives me a document it cannot be done. I doubt they did that because the latest NATOPS I have says that the HUD is maxed out in symbology and that it has display problems on certain modes for some symbols/data. 6. Originally the TGP could be carried only in Station 5, innermost left pylon, but now it can be carried on Station 3 and Station 4 (centerline pylon) as well. Prowler told me that Station 3 was enabled in 2003 and Station 4 in 2005. Now, like I said, we have to work within DCS limitations, which are plenty. DCS is a simulator after all and running it uses most of your computer resources. ED will develop the hot spot detector taking into consideration these limitations. Once we have it, we will talk about fake returns. Oh. BTW, the manual says that the IR Maverick suffers from the same hot spot noise problem and that it is a huge factor in missile accuracy. The missile will lock to the hot spot only to have it disappear while in flight. The explanation is a lot more complex but that is the TL;DR version. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus67 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 I wonder how likely it is that there isn't one, it's hard to imagine considering how incredibly useful it is in the A10C. Probably because the LITENING was a late addition. In the first AV-8B (DA, NA and Plus) versions, you needed to press the MPCD buttons in a certain pattern to display the LITENING mode. A MPCD main menu option was included later. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addde Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yes of course, but you mostly never see a AV-8B without two tanks an TGP , and if you need to start from the carrier the 12xgbu12 setting will show you the the usage of the life west GBU 12 = 230 kg x 12 =2760 kg 300 gallon tank ~ 1100 kg x 2 = 2200 kg + LITENING, 208 kg = 2408 kg + whatever ordnance If 2 tanks, TGP and some ordnance is normal then I dont see how 12 gbu 12 would be impossible from the carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 4. Overpowered? Who ever claimed that combat is a fair fight? The hot spot detector was developed by the British, since GR.7 was the first to have it, to help pilots with their Mk 1 eyeball detector. Americans would rather use radar, thus the Plus version. And the Plus version also has the NAVFLIR with its hot spot detector. If there are no fake returns and/or it has a 100% success rate detecting units than it is overpowered compared to reality! Now, like I said, we have to work within DCS limitations, which are plenty. DCS is a simulator after all and running it uses most of your computer resources. ED will develop the hot spot detector taking into consideration these limitations. Once we have it, we will talk about fake returns. Fair enough. First things first :) Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 It is, that is why the real aircraft has it. Of course all DCS pilots will have it easier since only "live" vehicles will be detected, unlike the real one which shows every single hot spot. In that respect if you see a hot spot in DCS you will already know that it is a vehicle. Why rather than calculating hotspots from buildings, reflections etc. for "false postives" not simply add a couple random "hotspots" on the ground? First it emulates the real live behaviour, without need for much CPU power, quite well. Second it requires the pilot to judge if the marker is a false hotspot or a target, so the "unfair advantage" is gone. Just a marker does not mean a target... You need at least get the TGP or eyes on, and check the mark.:smilewink: Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David OC Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) There can be fake Hotspots, mission builders could place trucks in random places % "every" start and place a few random around the target AO to mess you up. Once you start thinking this is too easy to find the targets, misdirection and then add a few manpads mmm.... Would be good to not show the enemy vehicles when the AI is OFF. That why the builders can sit a SAM/TANK quiet and cold so it cannot be seen, this would give the builders some more options. Edited March 31, 2017 by David OC i7-7700K OC @ 5Ghz | ASUS IX Hero MB | ASUS GTX 1080 Ti STRIX | 32GB Corsair 3000Mhz | Corsair H100i V2 Radiator | Samsung 960 EVO M.2 NVMe 500G SSD | Samsung 850 EVO 500G SSD | Corsair HX850i Platinum 850W | Oculus Rift | ASUS PG278Q 27-inch, 2560 x 1440, G-SYNC, 144Hz, 1ms | VKB Gunfighter Pro Chuck's DCS Tutorial Library Download PDF Tutorial guides to help get up to speed with aircraft quickly and also great for taking a good look at the aircraft available for DCS before purchasing. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tirak Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Overpowered? With one maverick and one jdam? You can kill 2 ore 3 units per sortie ... the warthog driver will just smile about it Not really. DITERs on the inner racks alone give you 6 GBU-54s, and if there's no spacing problem you can mount two more DITERs on the outer ones, giving you 12. If there is space concerns, then you're at 8, and if APKWS comes in, well the A-10 can smile all he wants as the Harrier clears the field before he can ever get there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proof Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Will civilian traffic cause these hot spots to appear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Not really. DITERs on the inner racks alone give you 6 GBU-54s, and if there's no spacing problem you can mount two more DITERs on the outer ones, giving you 12. If there is space concerns, then you're at 8, and if APKWS comes in, well the A-10 can smile all he wants as the Harrier clears the field before he can ever get there. If he finds the enemy before running out of fuel that is... :D Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Yeah fuel use on the harrier is prodigious in carrier ops, if you took off from a carrier without a ski jump with 12 GBU-12s I think it wouldn't be long before you felt like landing again. A-10 obviously doesn't have that problem although it's still silly to run 12 GBU-12s on it because you make it a big fat lump of a target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjer Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 (edited) AV-8B Harrier Thread As said, yes you can haul 12 gbus but there are reasons you never see it in real life ;) Lets wait for the release and try it our own Edited March 31, 2017 by Einherjer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuiGon Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Will civilian traffic cause these hot spots to appear? I thinks it's waaaay to early to tell. Intel i7-12700K @ 8x5GHz+4x3.8GHz + 32 GB DDR5 RAM + Nvidia Geforce RTX 2080 (8 GB VRAM) + M.2 SSD + Windows 10 64Bit DCS Panavia Tornado (IDS) really needs to be a thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joey45 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Well you don't use full fuel. A kc-130 would be neat.. using mobile The only way to make sense out of change is to plunge into it, move with it, and join the dance. "Me, the 13th Duke of Wybourne, here on the ED forums at 3 'o' clock in the morning, with my reputation. Are they mad.." https://ko-fi.com/joey45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Well you don't use full fuel. A kc-130 would be neat.. using mobile I quite like the idea of tanking off a harrier from an Il-78! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus67 Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 Will civilian traffic cause these hot spots to appear? Doubtful. Unless I am wrong, civilian traffic is handled more like scenery. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
98abaile Posted March 31, 2017 Share Posted March 31, 2017 With regards to false contacts, rather than take them from the scenery, since you are already able to display the NAVFLIR image on the HUD, would it be possible to write a shader that uses the NAVFLIR image (even when it's not displayed) and shows Vs on high contrast boundarys? Then you only need to find a way to make them targetable like actual contacts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addde Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Probably because the LITENING was a late addition. In the first AV-8B (DA, NA and Plus) versions, you needed to press the MPCD buttons in a certain pattern to display the LITENING mode. A MPCD main menu option was included later. If u dont have any indication of where the TGP is looking then how do you align for a GBU drop? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitormouraa Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 If u dont have any indication of where the TGP is looking then how do you align for a GBU drop? Through the MPCD? SplashOneGaming Discord https://splashonegaming.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeus67 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 If u dont have any indication of where the TGP is looking then how do you align for a GBU drop? The aircraft has the following AG HUD reticles: - Free Target Designator (diamond) TD - Laser Track Target Designator (A crossed diamond) LTTD - TV Track Target Designator (A square) TTTD - Maverick Target Designator (A bold X) MTD - TV FOV target designator (A big rectangle) TFTD - Iron sights (roll stabilized) - Rockets sights - AG gun sights. I think that anyone of those can be used with the TGP. In the case of the GBU the LTTD would be used. "Programming today is a race between software engineers striving to build bigger and better idiot-proof programs, and the Universe trying to produce bigger and better idiots. So far, the Universe is winning." "The three most dangerous things in the world are a programmer with a soldering iron, a hardware type with a program patch and a user with an idea." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addde Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 The aircraft has the following AG HUD reticles: - Free Target Designator (diamond) TD - Laser Track Target Designator (A crossed diamond) LTTD - TV Track Target Designator (A square) TTTD - Maverick Target Designator (A bold X) MTD - TV FOV target designator (A big rectangle) TFTD - Iron sights (roll stabilized) - Rockets sights - AG gun sights. I think that anyone of those can be used with the TGP. In the case of the GBU the LTTD would be used. Cool thanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frixon28 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Is it true that the pre sale starts next week? April Fools keep up the good work RAZBAM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asla36 Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Is it true that the pre sale starts next week? April Fools keep up the good work RAZBAM! April fools or no... Wouldn't mind at all ;) DCS: MiG-23 [sIGPIC] [/sIGPIC] Make it happen, and take my money! :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shagrat Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 Cool thanks :) To give a better impression on the HUD symbology and the target 'v' markers etc. From a Gr.7, but probably not much different from an AV-8B. https://youtu.be/Q8bmk4yZAJI Shagrat - Flying Sims since 1984 - Win 10 | i5 10600K@4.1GHz | 64GB | GeForce RTX 3090 - Asus VG34VQL1B | TrackIR5 | Simshaker & Jetseat | VPForce Rhino Base & VIRPIL T50 CM2 Stick on 200mm curved extension | VIRPIL T50 CM2 Throttle | VPC Rotor TCS Plus/Apache64 Grip | MFG Crosswind Rudder Pedals | WW Top Gun MIP | a hand made AHCP | 2x Elgato StreamDeck (Buttons galore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exile5121 Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 As said, yes you can haul 12 gbus but there are reasons you never see it in real life ;) Lets wait for the release and try it our own One of the primary reasons being they couldn't until 2015 http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.NAVAIRNewsStory&id=5852 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einherjer Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 One of the primary reasons being they couldn't until 2015 http://www.navair.navy.mil/index.cfm?fuseaction=home.NAVAIRNewsStory&id=5852 That is great! Thanks for sharing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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