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Flaming Cliffs 4


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How many of you would like to have more Flaming Cliffs type aircraft done to the level of Flaming Cliffs 2? I ask this due to the long production time of aircraft for DCS. :(

I think ED and the other developers could deliver many of the aircraft we would like to have in much less time than it takes now. :thumbup: Developed for FC would not take the current development cycle of 2+ years.

 

I enjoy the FC developed type aircraft as much as the newer developed ones. :D

 

Laz :smilewink:

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Considering how much time the flight model appears to take, the only way that would work is if they were truly FC2 level aircraft, SFM included.

 

Given the current demand for the more advanced flight modeling (i.e. Hawk & C101), I don't think there would be much of a market for a simplified avionics, simplified flight model, type of module among the part of the customer base that frequents this forum. How they might fair in overall general sales might be a different story.


Edited by cichlidfan

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How many of you would like to have more Flaming Cliffs type aircraft done to the level of Flaming Cliffs 2? I ask this due to the long production time of aircraft for DCS. :(

I think ED and the other developers could deliver many of the aircraft we would like to have in much less time than it takes now. :thumbup: Developed for FC would not take the current development cycle of 2+ years.

 

I enjoy the FC developed type aircraft as much as the newer developed ones. :D

 

Laz :smilewink:

 

Considering how much time the flight model appears to take, the only way that would work is if they were truly FC2 level aircraft, SFM included.

 

Given the current demand for the more advanced flight modeling (i.e. Hawk & C101), I don't think there would be much of a market for a simplified avionics, simplified flight model, type of module among the part of the customer base that frequents this forum. How they might fair in overall general sales might be a different story.

 

It's been pointed out a large part of the DCS\ED customer base doesn't participate in the forums. We are just the vocal, sometimes very overbearing minority from what I understand.

Maybe adding more FC2 level aircraft, with later updates to the high end clickable cockpits and complex flight models as payed for upgrades could be just the ticket to continue getting new folks into the sim.

Much to expand on of course, but just my bit of change for the moment.

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I'm sure they would sell if it was aircraft types people want.

Just look at how many fly the F-15

 

Which no longer has an FC2 Simple Flight Model.

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I'm all for new aircraft, like the f-22 or f-35. But words like classified systems and such get thrown back in our faces. That's what I thought the fc class of planes were for. I've found more about these classified systems online then people think. Also cockpit layouts, radar functionality, flight specs, and more. Hell modders and plane developers have made the F-22 and F-35 mods for games like, FSX, BMS with 100% weapons systems, flight models, etc. Anyways just a thought, I bet no one would complain if the new SU-35 stealth plane gets added, but they do for any one the ones I listed.

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Lazduk, I'm going to assume you mean FC3 and not FC2, because FC2 aircraft would feel really out of place in the current version of DCS.

 

They did say in a newsletter this summer that there might be more FC3 aircraft coming. I would like to see that actually. I mostly enjoy full DCS modules, but FC3 is excellent entertainment also. PFM for Su-33 and MiG-29 will hopefully come soon. After that I wouldn't mind a FC3 level F-16 or something. It makes sense, doesn't it? There's only one western fighter, and there are three eastern in FC3. Why not even it out a little bit?

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Not another FC module, pls not. I would rather see to ED spend the effort on proper full DCS Modules.

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There is simply no need for another FC. All or most of these aircraft will probably be released as high-fidelity modules some time in the (distant) future.

So why have development time wasted in a collection of simplified aircraft, when their work can instead generate some full scale modules?

FC3 aircraft are already on a level which is very acceptable to enjoy until they will see the light of release day as high quality modules.

We just have to be patient (as always).

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People are so selfish.

 

If others would like to see some more FC level aircraft in the sim, what is it to those saying "No!"?

 

So you have a right to what you want, but those who want something else don't?

 

"Oh, you can't do this to please them, because I want this - and I want it ASAP!"

 

That's a pretty nasty, egocentric attitude to have. I certainly recall a mod or dev on this site saying that the FC aircraft make up the bulk of sales.

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I'm mostly of the "no more FC level please" opinion, but I appreciate they may be interesting for other folks. I may even be OK with some FC type aircraft if they are not feasible otherwise, but still a realistic level can be achieved at FC level (this obviously does not include wonder stuff like 5th or even 4.5 gen aircraft, even FC offerings currently have realistic sensor and mostly realistic flight performance, this would be precluded in those cases).

 

Also, even if I would consider a hypotethical FC level offering, it would have to have a proper flight model for me. Anything above SFM level is fine, just no more SFM please :).

 

So far, neither 3rd parties, nor ED seem warm toward idea of more FC level offerings, and I can't say I'm sad at that.


Edited by WinterH

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I thought you could MOD your self out of that "more FC3" problem.

 

Every step DCS take towards high fidelity modules is a good one for me. FC3(SU-25T) is after all what brought me to the doorstep of DCS. But A-10C and MIG 12bis + all the community created missions and mods ex. RAE_MOD, is why I keep playing it. I like to play Eagle vs Flanker, but I am not sure that I am going to spend that much time in/with FC3 once we get more high fidelity modules. I think what we have now is just perfect when you consider the learning curves for new players like my self, it is very nice that you have a module where you don't need to worry about so much when learning to use weapon systems, navigation, take off and so on. once you understand the basics of flight and combat it is easier (for me) to transfer to a new module, high fidelity or not

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People are so selfish.

 

If others would like to see some more FC level aircraft in the sim, what is it to those saying "No!"?

 

So you have a right to what you want, but those who want something else don't?

 

"Oh, you can't do this to please them, because I want this - and I want it ASAP!"

 

That's a pretty nasty, egocentric attitude to have. I certainly recall a mod or dev on this site saying that the FC aircraft make up the bulk of sales.

 

It's not egocentric or selfish. It's just people expressing their wishes and likes.

You could say the same about the pro-FC people. They want something without thinking about the people who don't want to see that effort is put into that stuff.

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Tornado3 small.jpg

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Kind of a hard decision here for me personally.

 

I absolutely love the clickable and interactive cockpits, however I also love the plane diversity that FC3 brings because of the "less interactive" planes drawback. I would say that if they were planning a FC4, they should ask the community if the planes involved are worth this drawback.

 

Because why waste the effort on SFM planes if they aren't all that popular? I think new generation planes would be really interesting for something like this. Planes where all the details are classified but could be done just well enough to be realistic. However I believe ED is focusing more on the professional and accurate flight models so this whole discussion may just be pointless. But its still fun to think about!

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FC-style A/C are cool with me, so long as they come with ED-developed PFM! I value such PFM over any clickable cockpit.

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Same here - I find it very frustrating when cockpits are not clickable...

 

"I fnd it very frustrating when the screen resolution is no more than SVGA (800x600px)."

Complaint by an unknown gamer in 1989.

 

It is a matter of expectations. 2D-games were OK in 1984, non-clickable cockpits were OK in 2005.

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I recall hearing that ED themselves would never do FC style jets ever again, but no source. Either way, it doesn't surprise me.

 

Personally I have no problem with adding more Flaming Cliffs level jets as long as their flight models aren't SFM. DCS level jets have development cycles on the order of 2-4 years, which severely cuts down on variety in combat and mission design.

 

I would of course prefer a full on DCS jet over a FC jet, but I also have no problem with sacrificing fidelity for variety a la the IL-2 survey sim model. After all, that's what Lock On, the game that got me hooked on this franchise years ago was, and it's not like adding more FC level jets makes the currently flyable and planned DCS level jets go away.

 

I think there's real value in variety, and honestly when it comes to combat workload, it's not all that different flying a FC3 level jet and pressing hotkeys/HOTAS binds versus clicking them in the cockpit. As was said earlier in this thread, I'd rather have a FC3 F-15E than no F-15E at all. Besides, it's possible that with a FC3 jet laying the groundwork, any of them could be later expanded into a full module.

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As someone who has come to DCS only recently, having been a die-hard FSX-er for 8 years or so, I have to say that the FC3 aircraft are well modelled and fun to fly; I'd certainly welcome more aircraft of that level (let's face it, the basic specs of weapons and targeting systems are widely known) and to make them passable enough for what is effectively a very detailed game shouldn't be too complex. Let's take a Tornado GR4 as an example; any layman can find out about the RAPTOR recon pod, how the Attack radar functions, what guidance the Brimstone uses. It's all there, it just needs somebody willing to use it. I can see that there is a rather vocal following for 100% accurate systems and flight modelling (as there is with FSX and PMDG etc), but I am willing to bet there are a bucketload more people who don't need/want such accuracy and would be willing to throw $30 at another 3 FC3 level aircraft.

 

 

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Yes, to all, and thanks for your opinions.

 

My question was focused on getting more combat planes centered on the upcoming maps having the era type consistent with that time and place......without waiting years for one or two type being developed.

 

As mentioned, having DCS full fidelity type aircraft is one of the draws that some are interested in. I enjoy them also. However I can also see a selection of aircraft that we all would like developed. But to really achieve that would take years. Look how long its taken for several of the aircraft we now enjoy. After flying the same several type aircraft we have now over the same terrain gets rather old.

 

Thanks to the mods from folks keeps it interesting to a fair degree. But wouldn't it be great to have the maps and aircraft for the many theaters that we all want.....Vietnam, Korea, South Pacific, Mideast, Atlantic....

 

With the current development time stretching into decades for these packages to come to fruition .....I was just thinking along with having superDCS types we could enjoy FC types sooner.....much sooner and I really do not think doing FC type aircraft will slow down any development on the DCS type.

I believe this would bring in more users to DCS. Developers would make funds sooner and that would develop more avenues.....maps etc.

 

That is why I asked how many would support more FC type aircraft. Perhaps ED would see it too their advantage with a number of supporters that would make economic sense for them to pursue this development venture. And yes I did mean FC3.

 

Your thoughts???

 

Lazduc

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