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I dont want to sound harsh to devs. but after the F14 and jester, any AI plane with 2 seats, whether hind or F15E... If theres no AI its a no go for me and I suspect A LOT of ppl now. theres no going back

in hindsight it was insane to expect players to jump between seats *IN COMBAT* to begin with

an F15E without a WSO is almost insane and Id expect a jester level AI *AT LEAST* same with the hind.

Yes its fun to shoot, not so much when youre being shot at and need to hop seats etc.

nothings stopping you from doing it, but a lot of us would like an AI that can do basic sh*T while we fly or handle whatever.

Well you are in for some big disappointment then, as far as known the Hind won't be getting any form of AI, we already know the F-15E won't either. And that is honestly for the better. Jester sucks at anything that isn't AA related. Additionally in the F-15E the pilot can do basically everything from the front, besides switching on 3 switches, so all RB has to do is add a keybind for those from the front seat (I can't believe this has to be said again, this is about the hundredth time on this thread this has been stated....)

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I'd rather see  a pointless 1960's aircraft like the EE Lightning shelved, and the work redirected to the F15E, as it's pretty obvious the F15E is a much more sought after module over the Lightning, w

🤢 Another flying tablet. I don't like those new "glass only" cockpits. But that's the future 🤔

Yes, the F-15E is the only missing bird of the collection we still have. F-14A/B, F-15C/E, F-16C, F/A-18C   Could really not understand why they set the work on it on hold for something like

Well you are in for some big disappointment then, as far as known the Hind won't be getting any form of AI, we already know the F-15E won't either. And that is honestly for the better. Jester sucks at anything that isn't AA related. Additionally in the F-15E the pilot can do basically everything from the front, besides switching on 3 switches, so all RB has to do is add a keybind for those from the front seat (I can't believe this has to be said again, this is about the hundredth time on this thread this has been stated....)
Correct.

The F-15E is unique as the guy in front can do all that is needed so having an AI is just a duplication of work. It is more fun for me to do things myself.

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Why? Because the F-16 and every other single seat fighter is impossible to fly without a second guy in it? You need to jump seats because you are being shot at? Why? Your thoughts seem completely unfounded from a reality standpoint.

 

 

If reality matters, then the two seaters needs their RIO...

 

Allowing players to fly two seaters like F-16 will depart from the philosophy DCS have been following so far.

 

Personally, I think that if it is yet more workload for the user, a better communication between the pilot and the RIO is not only possible but also necessary.

 

Reason why I strongly suggest players to explore the use of Voice attack, even the option of getting the graphic interface off is possible at all.

 

Those Aircraft have a higher combat potential with the RIO, not using it is a complete waste of this potential.

 

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If reality matters, then the two seaters needs their RIO...

 

Allowing players to fly two seaters like F-16 will depart from the philosophy DCS have been following so far.

 

Personally, I think that if it is yet more workload for the user, a better communication between the pilot and the RIO is not only possible but also necessary.

 

Reason why I strongly suggest players to explore the use of Voice attack, even the option of getting the graphic interface off is possible at all.

 

Those Aircraft have a higher combat potential with the RIO, not using it is a complete waste of this potential.

 

......

 

The F-15 and F-14 are not similar in any regard really when it comes to individual work loads...people need to stop drawing up that comparison. The workload is no different than flying a single-seat F-18, F-16, etc. The extra body is a force multiplier but not a hinderance if they are not present. There’s about six switches on the console (that I can think of) that need to be put in the correct spots, before you get in harm’s way, that are tied to the back seat. Outside of that, systems management is all integrated into both seats, there isn’t a requirement to switch seats to employ anything, nor a need for anything like voice attach that extends beyond any other single seat fighter out there. It’s as user friendly as an F-16 in that regard.

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I would still love to have a rudimentary Backseat AI even if everything can be done from the front seat. For example to call out missile launches and position of bogey in a dogfight. Will make it feel like it’s a two person plane even if there is no one there.
Exactly what I was thinking.

 

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The F-15 and F-14 are not similar in any regard really when it comes to individual work loads...people need to stop drawing up that comparison. The workload is no different than flying a single-seat F-18, F-16, etc. The extra body is a force multiplier but not a hinderance if they are not present. There’s about six switches on the console (that I can think of) that need to be put in the correct spots, before you get in harm’s way, that are tied to the back seat. Outside of that, systems management is all integrated into both seats, there isn’t a requirement to switch seats to employ anything, nor a need for anything like voice attach that extends beyond any other single seat fighter out there. It’s as user friendly as an F-16 in that regard.

 

 

So what do you think the backseater can add to the crew then?

 

I'd say that setting up Voice Attack to communicate properly with it (AI) would certainly be a big help in terms of S.A, even so you can do all the rest from the front seat.

 

The less you have to do from the front the better and S.A is certainly part of the workload.

 

Calling altitudes, attitude (ground avoidance), threat, missile launch, breaks, check six etc, if you can com with your AI better, it will respond better to what you need it to do.

 

Now if workload in terms of systems is lower is the case for F-14, chances are its AI will reflect that when released.

 

 

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Guys, I wonder what the pilot's design will be.

I would like the pilot's helmet to be HGU-55 with a with central hose anchorage

 

There is still no such combination in the DCS.

Now the game is HGU-55 with side mount or HGU-33 with classic mask. I want HGU-55 with classic mask.

 

And by the way, do you think the extended movement/animation of the head and body of the pilot will be modeled as it is on the HB F-14?

So that the pilot can see where his WSO is looking and vice versa. This enhances the game atmosphere and realism.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

 

 

so its basicaly just an printed book version of an F15E-1 flight manual that you can find in pdf format?

 

If thats the case unless its a newer than a 1993 publication, meh, not worth the price of two hardcopy books.

 

 

 

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This is 3 years old now from a studio that merged back into ED of with their projects shifted significantly... Let's see what ED says, I will be gladly proven wrong

 

 

 

 

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Why they don't do an F-15C instead if two seats are so controversial, they don't plan any AI and are bottlenecked by coding? Graphically they are doing great job.

 

If I understand correctly F-15C would take incomparably less time to code without fancy guided A-G ordinance, systems, advanced two cockpit functionality, electro optical pods.

 

Considering RAZBAM has many graphics artists and smaller amount of coders single role single seater but with higher performance looks like perfect choice for them.

 

I'm afraid RAZBAM can stuck for years coding advanced A-G functionalities, two cockpits, pods etc. Being also forced to hold all other projects. Strike Eagle will be also A LOT more resource consuming to support/maintain in DCS with all this avionics. Like with modern A-G Harrier, it took years and it's still not finished. Bomber two cockpit F-15E can be even more time consuming.

 

Looks like they already came to similar conclusion chosing cold war single role jets in the future - with attractive real warfare history, performance and outlook but without modern gizmos extremely time consuming to code - like MiG-23, EE Lighting, legacy A-A Harrier, Mirage III etc.

​​This looks like logical choice which suits them perfectly. Being bottlenecked by coding they could make like three cold war single role planes for one super sophisticated multirole.

 

Maybe i don't know something? Maybe it's about the license ED gave them?

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I suspect it's because they think the -C has a much smaller market given that a) it's an FC3 module and many people won't necessarily feel like going beyond it and b) it's an a2a platform only. They probably figured that yes, it takes a lot more resources, but they'll also sell more. Whether that's true or not is a whole other conversation, but on paper the reasoning makes some sense. A huge caveat is whether they have learnt from their past errors and can build on that experience though.

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Why they don't do an F-15C instead if two seats are so controversial, they don't plan any AI and are bottlenecked by coding? Graphically they are doing great job.

 

If I understand correctly F-15C would take incomparably less time to code without fancy guided A-G ordinance, systems, advanced two cockpit functionality, electro optical pods.

 

Considering RAZBAM has many graphics artists and smaller amount of coders single role single seater but with higher performance looks like perfect choice for them.

 

I'm afraid RAZBAM can stuck for years coding advanced A-G functionalities, two cockpits, pods etc. Being also forced to hold all other projects. Strike Eagle will be also A LOT more resource consuming to support/maintain in DCS with all this avionics. Like with modern A-G Harrier, it took years and it's still not finished. Bomber two cockpit F-15E can be even more time consuming.

 

Looks like they already came to similar conclusion chosing cold war single role jets in the future - with attractive real warfare history, performance and outlook but without modern gizmos extremely time consuming to code - like MiG-23, EE Lighting, legacy A-A Harrier, Mirage III etc.

​​This looks like logical choice which suits them perfectly. Being bottlenecked by coding they could make like three cold war single role planes for one super sophisticated multirole.

 

Maybe i don't know something? Maybe it's about the license ED gave them?

You make a very good point. Think of it this way though. The longer we work on and perfect it, the better the end product will be. Slowly adding things into the module will make sure all the systems are perfected and work together.

 

I look forward to all the teeny tiny bugs you guys find in the future.

 

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Know and use all the capabilities in your airplane. If you don't, sooner or later, some guy who does use them all will kick your ass.

 

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Any chance to see the F-15E within the next 2-3 years in EA? This modul was announced to be the next after the AV-8B, for sure an F-15E was already announced to come to DCS many years ago.

 

Now its again on hold and on other modules, which were announced later (Mig-23, Lightning), the work continues.

 

The F-15E is the last great jet to complete the F-14 to F/A-18 pack of legendary modern 4th gen US fighters in DCS.

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