DCS: AJS-37 Viggen Discussion

[BravoYankee4]

Here are two pictures from the SF 37 belly landing (bird strike made it impossible to extend the landing gear).

 

The external fuel tank and the countermeasure pods took the hit, and the aircraft was restored to fully operational again shortly.

[El Hadji]

Thanks.

I know some people working at F7, perhaps they can share some details about this.

 

I just found a small notice in DN (Dagens Nyheter newspaper) published in October 1998. It is about Poland expressing a wish to buy old Viggens for their airforce as they were about to become a NATO member. In the article Polish minister of defence at the time, Janusz Onyszkiewics is quoted. Could it be that Sweden actually displayed the 37 i Poland in 1998 in relation to this?

[dartuil]

1) So AJS-37 can get 6x aim-9?

JA-37 4x aim9 + 2x aim-7?

 

2) And viggen is out before F-14?

[Chrinik]

1) So AJS-37 can get 6x aim-9?

JA-37 4x aim9 + 2x aim-7?

 

2) And viggen is out before F-14?

 

The JA is also wired for AMRAAMs.

I´m not sure about Sparrows, it was wired to use SkyFlash missles.

[emg]

In total less than 15% of the Viggens where lost, which is to be considered as pretty good figures. Especially considering the type of flying back then. And that the model was in service for almost 30 years.

First I went "what? that's a huge number", then I checked Jaguar loss stats and found it was at 33%... 181 losses out of 543 produced :shocking: Removing the ~5 combat losses don't change the stats much.

Edited January 10, 2016 by emg

[BravoYankee4]

I just found a small notice in DN (Dagens Nyheter newspaper) published in October 1998. It is about Poland expressing a wish to buy old Viggens for their airforce as they were about to become a NATO member. In the article Polish minister of defence at the time, Janusz Onyszkiewics is quoted. Could it be that Sweden actually displayed the 37 i Poland in 1998 in relation to this?

 

It cant be a coincidence...

 

Strangely there is no comment about this in the book I found all the other information. There where several countries, Japan, Australia, India, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland and Austria, that almost bought the Viggen.

Austria even had som pilots in Sweden doing pilot training.

However most of the affairs was blocked by USA embargo and threats, so chosing other (american) aircrafts was not purely because of the Viggen being inferior.

The most stupid USA argument was about that the RM8 (JT8-D) could not be exported as military equipment. There wasn't many countries during that time that didn't have the civil version in service, and the upgrades where made by SAAB anyway. But that wasn't the only strange decision from the Carter administration... ;)

Edited January 10, 2016 by BravoYankee4
Spelling

[Weegie]

Interesting on the accidents, I was sure I had read in Flight International many many years ago that one had been lost due to striking a Moose on the runway.

 

Must have got my aircraft types confused.

 

I'd love a Viggen its my all time favorite jet aircraft

[renhanxue]

The JA is also wired for AMRAAMs.

I´m not sure about Sparrows, it was wired to use SkyFlash missles.

The JA 37 only got wired for AMRAAM's with the JA 37D upgrade in the mid-90's.

 

The Skyflash is a British-developed improved version of the Sparrow (forget which version it was based on).

[El Hadji]

It cant just be a coincidence?

 

Strangely there is no comment about this in the book I found all the other information. There where several countries, Japan, Australia, India, Denmark, Norway, Belgium, Holland and Austria, that almost bought the Viggen.

Austria even had som pilots in Sweden doing pilot training.

However most of the affairs was blocked by USA embargo and threats, so chosing other (american) aircrafts was not purely because of the Viggen being inferior.

The most stupid USA argument was about that the RM8 (JT8-D) could not be exported as military equipment. There wasn't many countries during that time that didn't have the civil version in service, and the upgrades where made by SAAB anyway. But that wasn't the only strange decision from the Carter administration... ;)

 

Could possibly be a coincidence. Wasn't aware of either F7 Viggens visiting Poland or that Poland wanted to buy Viggens though.

 

And just a clarification for the international audience: the JT8-D upgrade to RM8 was made by Volvo. You know the old saying: "The fastest SAAB is powered by Volvo". This was especially fun to use in my hometown of Trollhättan where the SAAB plant was located and where Volvo Flygmotor (Volvo Aero Corporation when I worked there and today GKN) converted the engines.

Fun fact: The industrial area of Stallbacka in Trollhättan is really all built around providing aircraft for the Royal Swedish Airforce. If you look at it from the air the purpose becomes very clear. First you have engine production at Svenska Flygmotor (Swedish Aircraft Engines). These are then moved to be fitted in the planes at SAAB or Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget (Swedish Aeroplane "Limited/Corp/Gmbh") and then flown to the end user from the airfield which today is our local Airport. The attached image shows todays buildings but my added text shows the original layout of the area before SAAB started building cars and needed more room.

Edited January 10, 2016 by El Hadji

[Hummingbird]

Just a quick question: When is the Viggen scheduled to be released, before or after the F-14? Or alongside?

[mattebubben]

its further along then the F-14.

 

So my understanding is that it will be out before the F-14.

 

The F-14 also demands more work due to the 2 "cockpits" variable sweep wings etc.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

The JA 37 only got wired for AMRAAM's with the JA 37D upgrade in the mid-90's.

 

The Skyflash is a British-developed improved version of the Sparrow (forget which version it was based on).

 

Pretty sure it's a derivative of the M, don't quote me on that, though.

[mattebubben]

Pretty sure it's a derivative of the M, don't quote me on that, though.

 

The Skyflash predated the M.

 

The Aim-7M was the US effort to update the Aim-7 to catch up with the Skyflash.

 

The Airframe was based on that of the Aim-7E2 (atleast for the early Skyflash) but other then the airframe most other things where brand new.

 

It had a monopulse radar seeker very much improved electronics allround and new more powerfull rocketmotors.

 

And it was a very capable missile when it enterd service in 1978,

And should be comparable with the Aim-7M in terms for range and overall preformance.

 

Sweden selected it as the Radar guided missile for the JA-37 (fighter viggen) and the swedish missiles where license built in sweden.

 

There where also multiple variants of skyflash over the time.

 

Most of the changes as far as i can find where airframe / rocket motor related.

 

in the 80s there was also a proposal to develope a Skyflash variant with a active seeker (for both the RAF and Swedish airforce)

 

but in the mid 80s the RAF jumped off the project and it had no buyers.

 

And both the RAF and Swedish Airforce went of to aquire the Aim-120 to replace the skyflash in the 90s.

Edited January 10, 2016 by mattebubben

[Brisse]

Pretty sure it's a derivative of the M, don't quote me on that, though.

 

No it's not. It's a British derivative of the earlier AIM-7E-2. It's of similar performance as the American AIM-7M, but it's not the same missile.

 

Skyflash entered service in 78 while AIM-7M came four years later, in 82. The goal of the 7M was to bring the Sparrow up to Skyflash performance.

 

I believe the initial RB71 in the Swedish Air Force were identical to the British variant, but sometime during the 90's Sweden made further upgrades the their RB71's.

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

Noted. Cool stuff.

[dartuil]

6 x aim-9 is cool for me I can fight close and run away!

With a good hud and radar im in!

[Hook47]

You know, after diving into the plane and spending hours reading about it and looking at tons of pictures, I still cannot decide if it is hideous or beautiful, but I love it either way!

[dartuil]

Viggen is ugly to me!

But in cockpit I care armament and FM.

[QuiGon]

Here are two pictures from the SF 37 belly landing (bird strike made it impossible to extend the landing gear).

 

The external fuel tank and the countermeasure pods took the hit, and the aircraft was restored to fully operational again shortly.

 

I wonder why he didn't jettison them before "landing"?

[BravoYankee4]

I wonder why he didn't jettison them before "landing"?

 

Perhaps it was a deliberate decision to use them as a buffer to save the aircraft?

[QuiGon]

Perhaps it was a deliberate decision to use them as a buffer to save the aircraft?

 

Maybe you're right, but it doesn't look very safe to land on that fuel tank :D

 

Edit: Actually, after taking another look at the pictures it does seem like a good idea, since there are also pods on the wings which should be able to keep the plane in a stable condition after touchdown and serve as a "3-point landing gear" to prevent damage to the airframe.

Edited January 11, 2016 by QuiGon

[Skjold]

Just a quick question: When is the Viggen scheduled to be released, before or after the F-14? Or alongside?

 

Before the F-14, it was originally planned for Q4 2015 so you could (probably?) expect a Q1 or Q2 2016 release.

Edited January 11, 2016 by Skjold

[renhanxue]

You know, after diving into the plane and spending hours reading about it and looking at tons of pictures, I still cannot decide if it is hideous or beautiful, but I love it either way!

Someone (I think it was former commander-in-chief and air force general Owe Wiktorin) described it with the more or less untranslatable word "fulsnygg", which I think fits perfectly. It's a moniker for a person who is attractive despite having features that would normally be regarded as ugly or at least not conventionally beautiful.

 

Unlike a lot of fighter aircraft which have this sleek, graceful look going on, the Viggen is big, fat, angular, stubby-tailed and has weird bulges all over. It looks like it's been pumping iron at the gym. Nevertheless, from certain angles it can look downright elegant.

Edited January 11, 2016 by renhanxue

[BravoYankee4]

Someone (I think it was former commander-in-chief and air force general Owe Wiktorin) described it with the more or less untranslatable word "fulsnygg", which I think fits perfectly. It's a moniker for a person who is attractive despite having features that would normally be regarded as ugly or at least not conventionally beautiful.

 

Unlike a lot of fighter aircraft which have this sleek, graceful look going on, the Viggen is big, fat, angular, stubby-tailed and has weird bulges all over. It looks like it's been pumping iron at the gym. Nevertheless, from certain angles it can look downright elegant.

 

Most of the Swedish military design was about function before looks. All little things that might seem odd are usually there for a good reason. The hump on the back right in front of the tail fin wasn't there from the beginning. It was added later on to add performance (winds/turbulence etc).

The same goes for the saw tooth at the wings, that wasn't either in the original design but added after some initial flight tests to improve performance/stability.

Anyway, if you have experienced the Viggen live from a short distance so that you can hear and feel that brute force it is love at first sight!

 

The J-29 Tunnan is another good example. Hey, we got a big round radial engine, lets build an airframe around it :) That bird is also something you consider either as beautiful or pure ugly.

[Hook47]

I wonder why he didn't jettison them before "landing"?

 

The MiG 21s emergency procedures dictate to keep the centerline tank in the event of a main gear landing (provided it is empty!!!) so I bet a similar procedure exists