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Great game but very hard for beginners...


luftfisch
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All great ideas!

 

ED could also comission some of the prominent youtubers to make official tutorial movies. Something like the "Art of the Kill" of this generation, or John and Martha King with Flight Simulator 2000. Teaching about getting started, basics of flying, and then videos focussing on each module. These tutorials are then seamlessly integrated into DCS.

In the end, it all comes down to money, though - and most info is out there on youtube anyway.

 

Maybe there should be more focus on the wiki, trying to compile as much info as there is floating out there into it, linking it all together and then having a big, big link to it in the main menu as well as a prompt when starting DCS for the very first time "Hey, if you are new read this first, it will show you how to set everything up, also there is links to tons of tutorials".


Edited by Viersbovsky

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As the dust settles from the NTTR release, I suspect we will see new training missions on that map.

 

lets hope so, remember we are dealing with a horse....:D

 

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A good game must not be a bad simulation, and a good simulation must not be a bad game.

 

A simulation that you can only play after reading 500 manual pages scares of a wide audience. Just add a cool story and a beginner friendly campaign and you can make many players happy.

 

DCS is a game because we are all sitting by choice in front of our computer and spend here our free time. It's not a military service with a drill seargent behind. So some motivation is not wrong at all.

 

Opening a mission editor and placing your enemy targets yourself is not motivating like an enhrallig game story. Same with reading PDFs or watching YouTube. Therefore you must leave the game, turn off the music and that sucks.

 

If I was ED, I would wrap a cool story around an easy to fly plane and address that module to players, who are tired of simple arcade flying games. It would be a kind of gateway drug to simulation games and I would probably get addicted then...

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Youtube and the forum are familiar to people who have been involved with DCS World for a while, but finding the relevant information if you have just downloaded and started out is a whole different matter.

 

The information needs to be presented in a way that it is easy to find. There really ought to be support - at least for the basics - as a front end to the game. And yes, it really needs to be configured for all the popular joysticks, so someone with little or no previous knowledge of flight sims can at least get into the air, and fire off some basic weaponry.

 

Gain the interest of newcomers, and the market will widen. Give them a leg up, and they're far more likely to get hooked, and reach for their wallets.

 

It is plain commercial good sense to let people have a less intense doorway into the genre.

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All flight sims are pretty much learn as you go and on your own. Xplane has a steeper learning curve that DCS, and it's forums are not very noob friendly much of the time. There are no instructional vids that come with Xplane, and you have to learn and deal with the same issues that exist in DCS. Their graphics setup alone is a nightmare for any beginner.

Same with FSX, only FSX has a lot more YouTube stuff out there because of it's popularity.

But all flight sims, or games, that take themselves seriously are this way. I do not or understand why, but that's just the way it all evolved.

I started simming with Xplane and thought that sims were just a ridiculous waste of time after a short period. Why??? For the exact reasons that the OP stated. When I came to DCS, it was a huge difference and adjustment, but you got to just stick with it and take it for what it is.

I was so pi$$ed at ED when I started that I was permanently banned for quite some time. I still have the red boxes from back then. But I just kept persisting at it and came to the realization that this is what it is, and it's not for everyone. And thank God for that. We'd have every "Call of Duty" and "Battlefield" teen hacking, and shooting everything that flew in the servers.

I believe that ED knows this, and want's the people here who have the patience, sense, and sticktuitiveness to fly a sim correctly.

 

 

Is it a game??? Is it a Sim??? It's an expensive hobby. Nothing more.


Edited by Zimmerdylan
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At one time flight sims were one of the biggest segments of the gaming market. I doubt those glory days will ever return. If we do get significantly more people into the genre then there will be the increased chance of hacking and trolling. As long as the community policies itself well I don't think we'll ever get to be a wretched hive of villainy and scum that you'll often find in popular FPS games.

 

I don't think any of us are asking for things to be dumbed down any way either. Outside research, reading manuals, watching training or information videos, reading historical books are all part of this hobby that make it something more than just a pure game. But all those come after the thrill of flying has got its hooks into you.

 

I want to see the cliff wall that is the current level of difficulty turned into a series of steps that allows newbies to slowly climb to the level that allows for the fullest enjoyment of this sim. Just because the few other sims on the market don't do anything doesn't mean that's the way it should be. It just means they're all equally bad and that is not something that should be accepted, especially by the devs of those games. They're shooting themselves in the foot. At least one dev out there is trying something new which I wholeheartedly approve of (IL2BOS's mouse control).

 

There are three general areas that ED will be focusing on in their overall company strategy:

 

1/ Attracting new players

2/ Keeping current players happy

3/ Attracting back lapsed and former players

 

The steady stream of new planes and the imminent release of NTTR is a direct play to #2, current players.

 

The upgrade to 1.5 (and soon 2.0), from everything that has been released so far (DX11, merging of GUI and game executables, MP stability) are key to #3, getting lapsed players interested in trying the game out again to see if what turned them off before has been fixed.

 

It also lays the new fountain for more planes, theatres, supporting new hardware, VR, etc. which is important for all categories of players.

 

The one area that they haven't released any concrete information or shown as part of the 1.5 beta is how they plan to focus on #1, making the game stickier for new players (i.e making them play for longer with a view to getting them to spend money on a plane or campaign, etc.)

 

I work in the MMO space and we're always focusing of the 5s: what kind of experience do we want the player to have after 5 minutes, 5 hours, 5 days, 5 weeks, 5 months, 5 years, etc. We have to think of both the short, medium and long term of our game. Which is very similar to how ED should be thinking.

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Hello OP,

 

1) Ignore the Su-25T and TF-51D. If you own FC3 start with the F-15C. It is very difficult to crash which will save you a lot of frustration up front. There are only four weapon systems, one heat seeking missile, two radar guided missiles and a cannon to worry about.

 

2) The next thing to do is use the mission editor. It is fairly simple to make basic scenarios. Start off with no enemies and just fly around. You'll quickly learn the limits on the simplest aircraft, the F-15C. The Su-27, Su-33 and MIG-29A/S are also rather easy to fly.

 

3) You can add enemy types that don't shoot back, like tankers or cargo planes. As you get some weapon systems down place enemy fighters with no missiles (just cannons).

 

4) I am not sure about the current state of the training missions, but Youtube may be your best bet. I encourage you to start with the F-15C first and watch some videos. You may not be 100% proficient and know the ideal altitude to get into a turning fight but that is not really necessary for the AI or even most human players online. Just get the basics down first.

 

5) You should be using a HOTAS. The X52Pro is the best budget HOTAS.

 

Hope that helps a bit.

 

As the dust settles from the NTTR release, I suspect we will see new training missions on that map.

 

That would be a terrible idea. Buy a module, attempt to utilize the training missions only to find out you need to pay $50+ more. All training missions should be on the Black Sea map and all 3rd party modules must be forced to use it. Unless they include a map with an aircraft.


Edited by Flogger23m
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A good game must not be a bad simulation, and a good simulation must not be a bad game.

 

A simulation that you can only play after reading 500 manual pages scares of a wide audience. Just add a cool story and a beginner friendly campaign and you can make many players happy.

 

DCS is a game because we are all sitting by choice in front of our computer and spend here our free time. It's not a military service with a drill seargent behind. So some motivation is not wrong at all.

 

Opening a mission editor and placing your enemy targets yourself is not motivating like an enhrallig game story. Same with reading PDFs or watching YouTube. Therefore you must leave the game, turn off the music and that sucks.

 

If I was ED, I would wrap a cool story around an easy to fly plane and address that module to players, who are tired of simple arcade flying games. It would be a kind of gateway drug to simulation games and I would probably get addicted then...

 

The Medvedev campaign for the KA50 Blackshark is what you're looking for :).

 

 

And don't forget that L-Win+Home auto starts a plane... so you don't have to learn startup procedures right away.


Edited by M1Combat

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It is hard because it is NOT a game.

Haaahahahahaahahahah:megalol:

 

Oh silly, it is a game. Do you think you can pilot real planes after playing DCS? :D

 

I mean, it is a hard game, with many buttons to remember, but it is a game. Single player and multiplayer. Just the community is having a hard time acknowleging it.

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My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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Haaahahahahaahahahah:megalol:

 

Oh silly, it is a game. Do you think you can pilot real planes after playing DCS? :D

 

I mean, it is a hard game, with many buttons to remember, but it is a game. Single player and multiplayer. Just the community is having a hard time acknowleging it.

Yes, you can. But that's another hot topic ;)

 

Anyway, just wanted to say that if it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be so much fun.

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Yes, you can. But that's another hot topic ;)

 

Anyway, just wanted to say that if it wasn't hard, it wouldn't be so much fun.

 

That is true. It is realy fun. But still just a game, a in depth one, but a game non the less :3

[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]In 21st century there is only war and ponies.

 

My experience: Jane's attack squadron, IL2 for couple of years, War Thunder and DCS.

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I do not know if you have supernatural skills or something, but the fact that you can fly in a game (yes, dcs is a game..) does not mean you can fly in real life. Simulations and games do not represent the "feel" of a real plane at all. It will, however help you get the hang of it faster.

 

My own experience.

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In my opinion the devs shouldn't release an aircraft if they can't provide interactive tutorials at the same time.

 

I've discovered DCS when the A-10C was in beta and it came with the entire set of tutorials.

I have no doubt it greatly enhanced my understanding of the plane and help me memorized everything faster, making the whole process less overwhelming.

 

I just had a quick look at my modules and the Bf-109 has no tutorials, CA no tutorials, L-39 no tutorials, TF-51D no tutorials.

 

You and I both know they will come soon or late but a new guy, coming from FSX where these kind of interactive tutorials don't exist, might not expect that.

 

I'm fairly sure we will see new faces with every new module being released.

People who have been lurking at DCS for quite some time and who can't resist the call of the F-18/F-14/Mirage, whatever.

 

So more than ever before these tutorials must be part of the module as soon as they are released to the public.


Edited by Eight Ball
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When I saw the thread title, no exageration, I actually said to myself 'I wonder how many posts it would take before someone does the pretentious "it's a sim not a game" or go back to HAWX/Warthunder/Flappy bird" nonsense," rather then offer help and advice to a newcomer. Post number 2... well done community. Well done. *slow clap*

 

OP to answer your question, I would echo the less insecure parts, and thankfully the majority of our communities responses and say Bunyap on youtube would be an excellent place to start. You can learn along with him. In fact, youtube in general. Also there are some great organisations that have put out excellent guides in pdf form, do a search for the 476th VFG, their contribution is excellent.

 

Stick with it. It will reward you in the long run. Set yourself some objectives, for example fly a perfect circuit. Or learn how to dive bomb, and then develop that in to a roll in attack. Search the forum don't be afraid to ask questions, mostly people here are very helpful. And finally go online, play with other people and join a virtual squadron. Having others fly with you and help you will do wonders for your flying. Good luck!

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and far beyond the possibilities of limited free time gamers with jobs and families.

 

This is true in a sense. DCS does take a lot of commitment even more so in a family setup. The end result is worth it though and you really get a true sense of accomplishment.

 

Before you do anything, spend time to get your joystick setup with the basics. Flying controls, engine start/stop, canopy, gear, flaps, countermeasures, drogue chute, brakes, radio. Don't worry too much about the more advanced systems just yet. When I started with Lock-On, I set myself a small goal each time I played, and that way I progressed in small ways. And have fun :thumbup:

 

Don't pressure yourself too much in the beginning. Choose a plane and stick with it for a while. Don't be afraid to ask the community.

 

I can recommend the following videos-

 

 


Edited by ZoRPA

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YouTube (and especially Bunyap) helped me more than the in-game tutorials when it came to learning the A-10C (like CCRP bombing with dumb bombs). I went through the interactive Cold Start tutorial many times but I finally learned it when I ditched the tutorial and sat down with a printed copy of some checklists.

 

The tutorials are by no means bad, they are in fact excellent, but it all depends on how you learn best. For me it tends to be to watch a video four-five times and then "learning by failing miserably" until I get it right.

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As Kennedy already said:

 

"We choose to fly in DCS. We choose to fly in DCS in this simulator and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.":D

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You tube is a great resource, though you should be careful not to enjoy watching the youtube vids too much. I think I enjoy spending time watching instructional vids and people fly flight sims (Bunyap, Froogle etc) as playing the sims myself.

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As Kennedy already said:

 

"We choose to fly in DCS. We choose to fly in DCS in this simulator and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard, because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one which we intend to win, and the others, too.":D

 

Quoted for the truth m8. I was going to make a smart arsed quote and you owned me. If you don't like the study sim, go arcade mode, not rocket science.:thumbup:

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When I saw the thread title, no exageration, I actually said to myself 'I wonder how many posts it would take before someone does the pretentious "it's a sim not a game" or go back to HAWX/Warthunder/Flappy bird" nonsense," rather then offer help and advice to a newcomer. Post number 2... well done community. Well done. *slow clap*

 

 

I completely agree. There's so many objectionable things with that shortsighted attitude, it almost gets my blood boiling, more so now because the OP didn't even complain about the actual fidelity, just the sim's method of teaching it.

 

Overall though, I think DCS is much easier to get into versus other sims out there. The controls are, IMO, the most intuitive to set up of any flight sim. Tuning options for every axis and a built in modifier system (unlike Falcon, for instance) do wonders, not to mention that each aircraft has its own control setup which we can now access during singleplayer missions. And interactive tutorials are the single best thing since sliced bread. Seriously. They are miles better than any youtube video could ever be, they keep it short and actually build a sort of muscle memory at the same time. Every module needs them, especially the free ones.

 

ED could do more too, with not a lot of effort. The OP's short beginner campaigns with very basic threat environments are a good idea, potentially reused for aircraft of the same role. It's the missing link between the tutorials and actual campaigns/multiplayer. Last thing anyone should expect of new players if for them to build their own missions, when they barely understand their aircraft's capabilities and the threat even less.

 

Also maybe provide an outline in game of what they should actually start learning first, like the Quick Start guide but not buried miles deep in DCS' folder structure. While we're at it, the manual should be more easily accessible in game through maybe a briefing like screen in the "Esc" menu.

 

Still, I'm happy with where the sim is at now, but there is just so much potential.

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I would say the problem is in the lack of knowledge what functions the player really needs.

 

DCSWorld offers great way to get in to it because it offers the GAME mode (not the SIMULATION mode) that really removes the deep learning curve to very nice one.

 

I even made a key mapping to Su-25T for Steam Controller for Simulation mode to get it simply flying and firing all kind weapons (guided, unguided, bombs, rockets) just with the gamepad. You can easily fly, manipulate Shkval and look around (actually even easier than with TrackIR!).

 

You can find the sample of first (or second) flight from Input/Output subforum.

 

Once the player has learned the basics to fly and actually enjoys to fly and fire something etc. Then it is time to start letting go from the training wheels step by step, first doing own custom missions with some perks like labels on etc. And then just getting deeper and deeper.

 

 

I am currently doing a Steam Controller profile for KA-50 and it is super easy to fly with the steam controller but the weapons targeting system (Shkval) offers a slight challenge as it ain't so simple as with Su-25T because there is often need to reset it, get the cannon for fixed mode, turn laser On/Off more often etc.

 

 

So I would say that:

 

Step 1: Enable the Game Mode, don't be shamed.

Step 2: Just fly around, crash (a lot), eject (a lot) and have fun.

Step 3: Start with unguided weapons to blow things up.

Step 4. Notice that it is a Monday 2am and last time you checked it was Friday 10pm....

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I had the original Black Shark back before there was a DCS World.

I can't tell you the number of times I tried to get into it, and gave up in frustration.

 

Then after DCS World I got the A-10C. Again, tried a number of times to get into it, and gave up in frustration. Also got Black Shark 2 full version for DCS World, gave it another try, gave up yet again in frustration.

 

Ended up buying a few modules, had a quick look at them, and kind of put it on the back burner.

Recently however I retired, and after 1.5 came out, decided I was going to take one module - the KA-50, and learn that thing to where I could fly some combat come hell or high water. Spent several weeks reading, going through training missions, reading some more, rinse and repeat, etc.

 

I am pleased to report finally, after all these years, I can fly a combat mission in the KA-50 and actually shoot some stuff.

Next on my hit list, the A-10C. I have already ordered the printed manual from Lulu, and it is on the way to me. I will spend several more weeks flying the Ka-50, and reading up on the A-10C in the meantime.

 

But, now I have all this extra time on my hands ( I used to travel a lot for a living), so I can now properly devote the time to learn to actually enjoy these fantastic sims and get the most from them.

I have certainly found properly learning the KA-50 to be the utmost rewarding experience to date with DCS.

 

Yes, it is a great game ( second to none imho), and is very difficult for beginners - especially the study sims.

But wow, the depth it brings is phenomenal.

It took me a long, long time to finally get to this point, but am so glad I have stuck with it and am now where I am.

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