MiG-29A as a Third Free Aircraft for DCS:W

[j.sabo12]

I voted no for the reason that I bought LOMAC, Lock on flaming cliffs standalone, and then the Flaming Cliffs 3, each of which effectively rendered the previous obsolete. The next thing is that you'll have people requesting all the FC3 aircraft to be free. FC3 planes can be bought on a sale nowadays for the price of a decent coffee. Is it really that much to ask?

[Flogger23m]

The people can learn with the Su-25T.

 

The problem is that it is rather unforgiving, as is the TF-51D. I'd be in favor of making the Su-25T paid and making the MIG-29A free but that really isn't an option now that the Su-25T has been free for so long.

 

I've tried to get a number of people into the game but they were dissuaded by the difficultly of flying the Su-25T. They don't realize that some of the planes are exceptionally easy to keep in the air, like the F-15C or MIG-29. Flight sims are a niche genre and do keep in mind they're more realistic than ever. Most of us started with simpler games, like Jane's titles, Flanker or LOMAC. Those were a little easier to get into. With no real replacement for those titles we're going to have a harder time getting newcomers into the game. And building the player base (customers) is important for the genre.

 

I voted no for one simple reason. The Mig29 is a very popular plane. This may come as a surprise to many but in most former eastern block countries and elsewhere it is probably even more popular than the F16. I think a lot of people would pay good money for a FC3 lvl Mig29 with the PFM, I know I would if I didn't already own it as part of the FC3 package. ED would be crazy to leave that money on the table...

 

Well there is still the S, which is what most people end up playing anyways. I do believe most people would pay for a more advanced variant. The A is unique in that it is stripped down with a second variant flyable which can be paid for. It would be unreasonable to develop a module to be entirely free.

 

The next thing is that you'll have people requesting all the FC3 aircraft to be free. FC3 planes can be bought on a sale nowadays for the price of a decent coffee. Is it really that much to ask?

 

I don't see the logic in this. Were people requesting the A-10C to be free just because the Su-25T was free? The only reason people want the MIG-29A to be free is because it offers a forgiving and attractive aircraft to newcomers. I've seen a number of people write off the game because they assumed everything flew like the Su-25T which is an overweight bomb truck.

 

I say this as someone who pre-ordered FC3 as soon as it was announced, so I don't gain anything from a free MIG-29A. Developing an entirely new module for free? That makes no sense and is unreasonable. We all agree on that. A free MIG-29A with a paid MIG-29S module? That is more reasonable. Aside from an easy to fly fast mover there doesn't need to be anymore free aircraft.

 

And I'd like to know who spends $8-10 on coffee. :D

Edited November 24, 2015 by Flogger23m

[Deathbane]

Id be content if ed sold the mig 29 on a very cheap basis as a standalone fc3 craft, like the others currently on sale.

 

Alot of my friends bought the su 27 as a fast moving jet,to either compliment dcs bs2 they already had or after trying the thunderbolt and wanting to pair with us flying say the mig 21.

 

Think thats a fair entry cost. Definetly if its not fully simulated as a full module it should not command a high price, there is already a price barrier in dcs for hardware.

[Exorcet]

I vote "don't care"

 

But I wouldn't expect a free MiG. The Su-25 is a FC demo. The TF-51 is a DCS demo. Everything is covered between them.

 

I don't think it's a given that the MiG will drive more players to the game. Sims are pretty niche, the people that get into DCS probably know what they want a lot of the time.

[Tello]

Voted NO - I think this is up to the developers to chose. If you want a free MIG or any other module to be free for that matter go build one yourselves and hand it out to who ever you want.

 

This is wrong in so many ways and will not be the stepping stone for anyone to start playing a simulator.

 

I think this smell like warthunder community mentality from a long distance. Ew

[Dangermouseb51]

Free Aircraft

 

As much as I like stuff for free I don't think prices are that bad for the modules.... Especially if you wait for the deals ....

 

We're soon to be getting DCS 2 for free, I know it seems forever since originally announced but the time and effort gone into hauling the games engine through some steroid juice has to have some reward somewhere .....

[Flogger23m]

I vote "don't care"

 

But I wouldn't expect a free MiG. The Su-25 is a FC demo. The TF-51 is a DCS demo. Everything is covered between them.

 

I don't think it's a given that the MiG will drive more players to the game. Sims are pretty niche, the people that get into DCS probably know what they want a lot of the time.

 

One possible way to go about this (although will be a pain I believe) is make the Su-25T paid. DCS accounts will then have an option of choosing between a free MIG-29A or Su-25T. One or the other. Of course the downside is players will have to manage CD keys for their free module, but it would be a nice compromise. Those who want to pick up something more forgiving can take the MIG-29A, those who want more of a challenge can take the Su-25T.

 

Everything else they must pay for. If someone takes the MIG-29A, they must buy the Su-25T and vice verse.

[Havner]

Of course the downside is players will have to manage CD keys for their free module (...)

Everything else they must pay for. If someone takes the MIG-29A, they must buy the Su-25T and vice verse.

Please, do not create problems that don't exist. Managing keys for free modules would be an overkill.

[Flogger23m]

Please, do not create problems that don't exist. Managing keys for free modules would be an overkill.

 

It would be although it would be a way of limiting the amount of free content while giving the option. And to be fair, paying customers are burdened with draconian DRM so I don't think it is too much of a big deal for free users. If they end up buying modules they'll have to manage 2-5+ more keys so they may as well get used to the practice. The main problem comes from ED and their customer support being bogged down with managing it which is not something we would like.

[NineLine]

If it sells for the same price as the other FC3 PFM individual aircraft, that is pretty much giving it away.

[Havner]

And to be fair, paying customers are burdened with draconian DRM so I don't think it is too much of a big deal for free users.

Seriously, just no.

Even though I own most of the modules the main advantage of free ones is lack of the draconian DRM.

[LNR212]

I also voted NO

 

This sim and it's community is relatively small compared to other genres (I think the dev's really need some money - we can only profit from it). There are already two free aircraft (even one with clickable cockpit) AND a free map with access to everything. There's no other "game" with free full access to everything without a time limited trial/ testperiod or without having access to everything including multiplayer. You really can get a good insight of what DCS is and can decide whether if it is satisfying for you or not and if your pc can handle it.

[cichlidfan]

There's no other "game" with free full access to everything without a time limited trial/ testperiod or without having access to everything including multiplayer.

 

That is actually incorrect, I can think of at least one other, but it doesn't detract from the rest of your point.

[LNR212]

Yeah, my fault. I should have better written "I personally don't know any other game..."

 

(but that doesn't even mean a thing, I only know DCS and ED :D)

[ekg]

This poll is so disappointing...

[TheFurNinja]

Whats interesting here is the amount of support for an aircraft that isn't used much at all, and is overshadowed by its more modern variant.

 

As much as I would like this aircraft it just seems that the community deems it too strong (as much as I have personal reservations against such a claim) or too popular to pass up the capitalist opportunity (hey if there is enough demand just put a price tag on it, ED deserves good money for this amazing sim).

 

My question is: How many of us paying customers of the FC3 pack would like the fly the MiG-29A against something like a F-15 for example? Because the point here is I wanted to see if you would mind giving out a plane that nobody seems to fly or talk about, but at the same time is capable of fighting planes like the F-15 or F-16/18.

 

I tested it against 4xF16 AI with varying degrees of difficulty at low altitude. And though I did well, its because I knew very much what my weaknesses were (I even used some cheating F6 view) and after the first pair of ERs missed I just ran due to AIM-120s (which they had about 4x a piece). In the end I did not control this fight. My wingman died very early on and I was forced to run away and behind terrain, I then used VS and some OPT to surprise and engage the F-16s as they crested the hill to chase me.

 

By the end I had to gun two of them down (they spoofed two of my missiles) and ran out of fuel.

 

But if the community loves this variant so much they want to pay for it, then by democracy that is what we will do.

Edited November 25, 2015 by TheFurNinja

[Beagle One]

Whats interesting here is the amount of support for an aircraft that isn't used much at all, and is overshadowed by its more modern variant.

 

As much as I would like this aircraft it just seems that the community deems it too strong (as much as I have personal reservations against such a claim) or too popular to pass up the capitalist opportunity (hey if there is enough demand just put a price tag on it, ED deserves good money for this amazing sim).

 

My question is: How many of us paying customers of the FC3 pack would like the fly the MiG-29A against something like a F-15 for example? Because the point here is I wanted to see if you would mind giving out a plane that nobody seems to fly or talk about, but at the same time is capable of fighting planes like the F-15 or F-16/18.

 

I tested it against 4xF16 AI with varying degrees of difficulty at low altitude. And though I did well, its because I knew very much what my weaknesses were (I even used some cheating F6 view) and after the first pair of ERs missed I just ran due to AIM-120s (which they had about 4x a piece). In the end I did not control this fight. My wingman died very early on and I was forced to run away and behind terrain, I then used VS and some OPT to surprise and engage the F-16s as they crested the hill to chase me.

 

By the end I had to gun two of them down (they spoofed two of my missiles) and ran out of fuel.

 

But if the community loves this variant so much they want to pay for it, then by democracy that is what we will do.

In the past, mainly on 104th and 51st Server we had great times with early 80's missions with Su-25A. MiG-29A/G ad AIM-9/7 R-27R/E only. DCS is not restricted to the year 1999. Why should someone buy a MiG-15 or Sabre if DCS is only tailored aroudn the F-15. Mission designers can leave the F-birds completely out of the game anytime like Mirage and Luftwaffe MiG-29G and A-10A vs. Su-27S and MiG-29A/S and Su-25A. Pretty much a 1990 setting.

 

The main reason why the MiG-29 got dismissed so much in DCS was simply due to the ugly 2D cockpit. old meodel and Abyssmal FM. The fulcrum had the worst FM of all the FC3 birds. It was simpy not enjoyable to fly it in any way. That will change soon.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Beagle One

[MiG21bisFishbedL]

In the past, mainly on 104th and 51st Server we had great times with early 80's missions with Su-25A. MiG-29A/G ad AIM-9/7 R-27R/E only. DCS is not restricted to the year 1999. Why should someone buy a MiG-15 or Sabre if DCS is only tailored aroudn the F-15. Mission designers can leave the F-birds completely out of the game anytime like Mirage and Luftwaffe MiG-29G and A-10A vs. Su-27S and MiG-29A/S and Su-25A. Pretty much a 1990 setting.

 

The main reason why the MiG-29 got dismissed so much in DCS was simply due to the ugly 2D cockpit. old meodel and Abyssmal FM. The fulcrum had the worst FM of all the FC3 birds. It was simpy not enjoyable to fly it in any way. That will change soon.

 

It'll be great to play with a new FM while we watch the heat death of the universe.

[TheFurNinja]

In the past, mainly on 104th and 51st Server we had great times with early 80's missions with Su-25A. MiG-29A/G ad AIM-9/7 R-27R/E only. DCS is not restricted to the year 1999. Why should someone buy a MiG-15 or Sabre if DCS is only tailored aroudn the F-15. Mission designers can leave the F-birds completely out of the game anytime like Mirage and Luftwaffe MiG-29G and A-10A vs. Su-27S and MiG-29A/S and Su-25A. Pretty much a 1990 setting.

 

The main reason why the MiG-29 got dismissed so much in DCS was simply due to the ugly 2D cockpit. old meodel and Abyssmal FM. The fulcrum had the worst FM of all the FC3 birds. It was simpy not enjoyable to fly it in any way. That will change soon.

 

And yes in that 80s setting this variant would be a good bit more capable, but it still lacks any sort of payload to sustain any BVR engagement past 1 target (or two if he is lucky), leaving him a sitting duck in the end.

 

It is true as well, that with its new FM, cockpit, and 3d model it will be more popular. We will only see a rise in MiG popularity

 

Regardless of that popularity this variant is still a lacking aircraft and can only sustain close in furballs.

 

Wether you think this plane should be free or not is completely up to you guys. I just felt like sharing this idea to both make use out of this fighter that would both attract new people and that is still relevant throughout the FC3 environment (without giving them a top of the line 4th gen).

[Flogger23m]

Whats interesting here is the amount of support for an aircraft that isn't used much at all, and is overshadowed by its more modern variant.

 

As much as I would like this aircraft it just seems that the community deems it too strong (as much as I have personal reservations against such a claim) or too popular to pass up the capitalist opportunity (hey if there is enough demand just put a price tag on it, ED deserves good money for this amazing sim).

 

My question is: How many of us paying customers of the FC3 pack would like the fly the MiG-29A against something like a F-15 for example? Because the point here is I wanted to see if you would mind giving out a plane that nobody seems to fly or talk about, but at the same time is capable of fighting planes like the F-15 or F-16/18.

 

I tested it against 4xF16 AI with varying degrees of difficulty at low altitude. And though I did well, its because I knew very much what my weaknesses were (I even used some cheating F6 view) and after the first pair of ERs missed I just ran due to AIM-120s (which they had about 4x a piece). In the end I did not control this fight. My wingman died very early on and I was forced to run away and behind terrain, I then used VS and some OPT to surprise and engage the F-16s as they crested the hill to chase me.

 

By the end I had to gun two of them down (they spoofed two of my missiles) and ran out of fuel.

 

But if the community loves this variant so much they want to pay for it, then by democracy that is what we will do.

 

My personal arguments don't have anything to do with "balance" or "what is good" in game. My point is to have a forgiving plane for people new to flight sims. While the Su-25T and TF-51D may be easy for some of us they aren't for people with little to no flight sim experience. Even the PFM Su-27 is far easier than those two planes. You would be surprised with how easy to fly aircraft can leave a better first impression on new players.

 

Sadly there are no current flight games or light flight sims out there. You essentially have to jump right into study sim games. Most of us started with lighter flight sims and gradually moved up. This isn't an option for new players in 2015. There isn't even a decent arcade type flight game for sale on the PC that came out in the past decade.

 

For most new players wrestling with the TF-51D as their first experience isn't going to be pleasant. I realize a lot of people in this community will just say "screw them, we don't need them anyways". And maybe ED can sustain itself on 15-20 year old flight sim enthusiasts. But I think it would be in their best interest to make the game leave a good impression on free users.

 

The only real option for an easier free aircraft is the MIG-29A. MIG-29 enthusiasts will no doubt buy the MIG-29S for the additional capabilities. The free users who are retained will likely buy FC3. Likewise, at this point, I think most DCS enthusiasts already own FC3 which includes both variants. I don't think ED will get many sales from the standalone MIG-29A module. I believe most people will either buy FC3 or just the MIG-29S. I just don't see the A variant being an excellent seller as a standalone module when people can buy the S.

[TheFurNinja]

My personal arguments don't have anything to do with "balance" or "what is good" in game. My point is to have a forgiving plane for people new to flight sims. While the Su-25T and TF-51D may be easy for some of us they aren't for people with little to no flight sim experience. Even the PFM Su-27 is far easier than those two planes. You would be surprised with how easy to fly aircraft can leave a better first impression on new players.

 

Sadly there are no current flight games or light flight sims out there. You essentially have to jump right into study sim games. Most of us started with lighter flight sims and gradually moved up. This isn't an option for new players in 2015. There isn't even a decent arcade type flight game for sale on the PC that came out in the past decade.

 

For most new players wrestling with the TF-51D as their first experience isn't going to be pleasant. I realize a lot of people in this community will just say "screw them, we don't need them anyways". And maybe ED can sustain itself on 15-20 year old flight sim enthusiasts. But I think it would be in their best interest to make the game leave a good impression on free users.

 

The only real option for an easier free aircraft is the MIG-29A. MIG-29 enthusiasts will no doubt buy the MIG-29S for the additional capabilities. The free users who are retained will likely buy FC3. Likewise, at this point, I think most DCS enthusiasts already own FC3 which includes both variants. I don't think ED will get many sales from the standalone MIG-29A module. I believe most people will either buy FC3 or just the MIG-29S. I just don't see the A variant being an excellent seller as a standalone module when people can buy the S.

+1

[pepin1234]

Guys the Su-25T is the most awesome plain to learn. I remember when I watched every video to learn how use the weapons. This is the best way to go into a simulator.

 

I suspect a FC3 free fighter gone be like a Air shooter for the arcade games fanboys they use to get tired when go into learn something.

 

Giving free fighters to people don't like hard learn don't gone solve anything. They need to learn first and after that pass by the cash machine to get the best module. Only like that you gone see if the word Simulation is what they really like.

[Tucano_uy]

I want all modules to be free. And the hardware too.

[ekg]

I want all modules to be free. And the hardware too.

 

This guy gets it :megalol:

[Buzzles]

Not that it's going to get it, but if DCS World needs anything as a freebee, it probably should be a helicopter.

 

Why?

 

Well, it already has a jet that showcases a large part of DCS's combat functionality (and has a targetting feature with the Shkval).

 

We have a prop plane, showing off a PFM and the clickable pit/ASM functionality.

 

A helo would be showing off the AFM/PFM for rotary wing aircraft, and tbh if ED were going to do it, they could use it to showcase multicrew as well now that is pretty much in-game. Something non combat with a clickable pit would probably be quite good (KA-26?).

 

And this isn't because I love helos (I don't), but it's just the next logical step if you want to show off DCS's 'big' features, which is what the free aircraft are for.