Brigg Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Gonna play devils advocate here, but for me personally the 262 is a waste of time. Me and quite a few others would rather see resources used making more priod feature aircraft to the map we already have Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Me-262 suits the period, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paganus Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Uh, for the record, the 262 was in service months before the 109-K4. It fits well within our late war plane set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercoupe Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 All of you guys who keep bitchin about the right plane for this and the right plane for that, STILL don't get that this isn't what DCS does. They don't make "battle" scenarios. That's what the Great Battle series is about. Go there. DCS doesn't do that. They make highly detailed study level models of airplanes. The world they inhabit is a sandbox. You do with it what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 All of you guys who keep bitchin about the right plane for this and the right plane for that, STILL don't get that this isn't what DCS does. They don't make "battle" scenarios. That's what the Great Battle series is about. Go there. DCS doesn't do that. They make highly detailed study level models of airplanes. The world they inhabit is a sandbox. You do with it what you want. I thought we played digital combat simulator, not digital study one. What combat can be simulated if you have planes that, for example, never faced each other? It seems like you would be happy enough even if DCS had only 2 planes, like, for example, hornet and I-16. Perfect for study, yep. And absolutely useless for the "combat" part Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcrazyx Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I thought we played digital combat simulator, not digital study one. What combat can be simulated if you have planes that, for example, never faced each other? It seems like you would be happy enough even if DCS had only 2 planes, like, for example, hornet and I-16. Perfect for study, yep. And absolutely useless for the "combat" part using the name as an arguement is null considering we have the CE 2 and yak 52 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercoupe Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I thought we played digital combat simulator, not digital study one. What combat can be simulated if you have planes that, for example, never faced each other? It seems like you would be happy enough even if DCS had only 2 planes, like, for example, hornet and I-16. Perfect for study, yep. And absolutely useless for the "combat" part Completely stupid argument that doesn't hold water. You've never taken part in any combat in DCS? What the hell have you been doing in here? I've flown missions in my F-86 against MiG-15's, I've fought Luftwaffe fighters in my Spitfire Mk9 and P-51. I've flown hairy missions in my A-10C, going after targets and dodging triple a and sams. I've had high altitude dogfights in my F-15 against MiG-29's and SU-33's. Most recently I've been terrorizin the maps in my newest aquisition, the AV8 Harrier. Seems like combat to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Both of you successfully failed to see what i meant and saw only what you wanted to see. But fine, i'll explain. You don't seek for balance? Good for you, but people in pvp want to be competitive on both sides. Check korean servers, how many people fly P-51s there? 1%? 5%? What about mid cold war, are sabres popular against MiG-19 and 21s? And how many people fly Mig-21s on GS server? Still not getting it? Need further explanations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 using the name as an arguement is null considering we have the CE 2 and yak 52 Don't know the story of CE, buy yak was added just because it had already been made for other purposes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmeliak Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 262 was introduced as fighter in the prototype phase, but Adolf wanna very fast bomber ... anyway, has been often used against B17 formations ... you start and climb to 7 -10k, empty your 30mm guns direction large bomber group and disappear. I do pray every Fu. day for this module in DCS since 10 years :) we are close. Steel Hotas Warthog + Hoffmans F16 rudders, Oculus Rift S, EVGA RTX3090, Core i7 4790K Hangar: Ka50, A10C, A10A, A10CII, SU27, SU33, SU25, Av8BNA, Bf109K4, F16C, F86, FA18C, FW190D9, i-16, L39C, Mi8, MiG15, MiG19P, MiG21, P51D, Spitfire, SuperCarrier, Yak52, P47, F14, Mi24P, Me262? Flying over CAU, NEV, NORM, SYR, CHNL, PER, ATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmeliak Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 One day I will stop to be lazy and do some pictures of me262 parts I have here at home and post it ... Steel Hotas Warthog + Hoffmans F16 rudders, Oculus Rift S, EVGA RTX3090, Core i7 4790K Hangar: Ka50, A10C, A10A, A10CII, SU27, SU33, SU25, Av8BNA, Bf109K4, F16C, F86, FA18C, FW190D9, i-16, L39C, Mi8, MiG15, MiG19P, MiG21, P51D, Spitfire, SuperCarrier, Yak52, P47, F14, Mi24P, Me262? Flying over CAU, NEV, NORM, SYR, CHNL, PER, ATL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ercoupe Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Toten, I was trying to find my crystal ball, but couldn't locate it. So, I wasn't able to understand what you "meant." I was only able to understand what you wrote. And you wrote that, "DCS is useless for air combat." So, I was responding to that rediculous claim. I stand by my post and I humbly bow out of this silly conversation, which I should never have joined in, to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 Both of you successfully failed to see what i meant and saw only what you wanted to see. But fine, i'll explain. You don't seek for balance? Good for you, but people in pvp want to be competitive on both sides. Check korean servers, how many people fly P-51s there? 1%? 5%? What about mid cold war, are sabres popular against MiG-19 and 21s? And how many people fly Mig-21s on GS server? Still not getting it? Need further explanations?Either way, do you need further explanation about you're asking the whole thing to be balanced in a certain way you like while what you mean is up to the mission creator? Just saying :music_whistling:. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 I was only able to understand what you wrote Shame "DCS is useless for air combat." Quote pls ou're asking the whole thing to be balanced in a certain way you like while Oh gosh. I suppose that no mission creator will be able to balance anything if planes are just not comparable with each other. Good luck with balancing out I-16 and F-16C, for example. It's just when people say "DCS isn't about balance" they seem to forget that existing F-86 and MiG-15 modifications (or F-5 and MiG-19/21) were both made in DCS not by lovely coincidence in terms of their similar performance. I'd say more - most people don't give scheiB about "learning" compared to the playing part - most popular DCS videos are about air to air combat, almost all of the servers are made so that people could fly there. DCS is about getting money by its developers, like any other game. And money are paid mostly by people who want to win in aerial or a2g combat online or offline, not press unreal buttons in unreal cockpit twice a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zcrazyx Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 for some one who talks of balance you seem to forget that the K4 we have has no match already, we dont have 150 octane mustangs, we dont have late mark spitfires to counter it, we dont even have numbers balance. I gave up on asking for balance long ago as i believe its down to the server owner to balance it, which most likely turns out to only be a theater based balance and not a short time scale based one. I believe that ED them selves is now trying to focus on a specific time period with the aircraft we are seeing be worked on, p-47, mosquito and mag 3s corsair. that being said the 262 is going to just be an even worse case of K4 syndrome, at least with the new dm it shouldnt be as bad though. who knows they might even introduce later aircraft by the time it releases. I for one do not believe that individual aircraft should be handicapped by ED for balance because its a simulator that is meant to realistically model aircraft, i wouldnt want the k4 being gimped of horse power just as i wouldnt want the spitfire being out turned by a dora. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted May 22, 2020 Share Posted May 22, 2020 (edited) I suppose that no mission creator will be able to balance anything if planes are just not comparable with each other. Good luck with balancing out I-16 and F-16C, for example.Yeah, of course in that extreme scenery you paint, but you seem to forget we are no longer in the 2012 position in which FC3, BS, A-10C and P-51 were the only available planes, are we? S! Edited May 22, 2020 by Ala13_ManOWar "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 I for one do not believe that individual aircraft should be handicapped by ED for balance because its a simulator that is meant to realistically model aircraft, i wouldnt want the k4 being gimped of horse power just as i wouldnt want the spitfire being out turned by a dora. Noone is saying any plane should be handicapped. Balance is not equality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TotenDead Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Yeah, of course in that extreme scenery you paint, but you seem to forget we are no longer in the 2012 position in which FC3, BS, A-10C and P-51 were the only available planes, are we? I paint only examples while you groundlessly think I'm saying that the game is "in that extreme scenery" And yep, i can see that it's not 2012 in dcs. Modern blue planes are fighting themselves in multiplayer. Fascinating. That's what happens when developers add more and more superior planes only to one side Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrExplosion Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 I paint only examples while you groundlessly think I'm saying that the game is "in that extreme scenery" And yep, i can see that it's not 2012 in dcs. Modern blue planes are fighting themselves in multiplayer. Fascinating. That's what happens when developers add more and more superior planes only to one side The devs just add late war period planes. And the Me262 fits perfectly and will be a really interesting module. The first real jet fighter. How could ED not introduce it to DCS? Are you even serious? ;) Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt, Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert. Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh, Der Jägerei ein Horrido! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ala13_ManOWar Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 Whether it's a good choice or not with regards to planeset doesn't really matter, it was just a choice made by RKK in their kickstarter and ED just honour that. Period. S! "I went into the British Army believing that if you want peace you must prepare for war. I believe now that if you prepare for war, you get war." -- Major-General Frederick B. Maurice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungo13 Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 The devs just add late war period planes. And the Me262 fits perfectly and will be a really interesting module. The first real jet fighter. How could ED not introduce it to DCS? Are you even serious? ;) That would be rather Meteor - but it doesn't have potential to be such a bestseller. I just wonder how is anyone going to implement that 10-hour service interval for the engines. Well, after the war, those engines were found to be usable only for 4 hours of flight, than they required overhaul of the turbines. :smartass: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrExplosion Posted May 23, 2020 Share Posted May 23, 2020 That would be rather Meteor - but it doesn't have potential to be such a bestseller. No, the Me262 was first. But you are right concerning the missing potential, since Gloster Meteor was used to fight unmanned V-1 rockets? ;) I just wonder how is anyone going to implement that 10-hour service interval for the engines. Well, after the war, those engines were found to be usable only for 4 hours of flight, than they required overhaul of the turbines. :smartass: Afaik, engine service isnt modeled (thank god) and I can just hop in a brand new bird everytime I boot up the simulator. :lol: Kein Anderer als ein Jäger spürt, Den Kampf und Sieg so konzentriert. Das macht uns glücklich, stolz und froh, Der Jägerei ein Horrido! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 No, the Me262 was first. But you are right concerning the missing potential, since Gloster Meteor was used to fight unmanned V-1 rockets? ;) Afaik, engine service isnt modeled (thank god) and I can just hop in a brand new bird everytime I boot up the simulator. :lol: You also cannot model bad ergonomics of all allied planes.. especially the Spit. 1 Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mungo13 Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 No, the Me262 was first. But you are right concerning the missing potential, since Gloster Meteor was used to fight unmanned V-1 rockets? ;) Afaik, engine service isnt modeled (thank god) and I can just hop in a brand new bird everytime I boot up the simulator. :lol: -well, first production Meteors were finished some time before Me-262 - getting brand new doesn't mean that is is not still more likely to fail. Besides i remember stories about those returning with damaged plane even not by any meaning by their fault to be sent back to propeller planes - for damaging precious weapon. :megalol: You also cannot model bad ergonomics of all allied planes.. especially the Spit. Well I have read similar claims about those german ones. Cramped, noisy and so on. When Einstein said: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. he had not heard about flamewars about WW2 equipment Anyway - there is easy solution: me-262 jockeys every few flight would have to ask ground control after landing to go and do a factory repair of their turbines. With 1-2 day waiting period :thumbup: I can even imagine how those late-period german virtual pilots before every flight will toss dices to find out, how much fuel the got, how much ammo, which systems work and what is actual performance of their bird ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amazingme Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 -well, first production Meteors were finished some time before Me-262 - getting brand new doesn't mean that is is not still more likely to fail. Besides i remember stories about those returning with damaged plane even not by any meaning by their fault to be sent back to propeller planes - for damaging precious weapon. :megalol: Well I have read similar claims about those german ones. Cramped, noisy and so on. When Einstein said: Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. he had not heard about flamewars about WW2 equipment Anyway - there is easy solution: me-262 jockeys every few flight would have to ask ground control after landing to go and do a factory repair of their turbines. With 1-2 day waiting period :thumbup: I can even imagine how those late-period german virtual pilots before every flight will toss dices to find out, how much fuel the got, how much ammo, which systems work and what is actual performance of their bird ... When you quote someone to appear more intelligent than you actually are, you have to know the whole context from which that quotation is taken from. "As Albert Einstein once said to me: “Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity.” But what is much more widespread than the actual stupidity is the playing stupid, turning off your ear, not listening, not seeing." Gestalt Therapy Verbatim by Frederick S. Perls. So, as you can see, you fall into your own trap, as you clearly cannot understand what ergonomics is and what it implies. 1 Specs: Asus Z97 PRO Gamer, i7 4790K@4.6GHz, 4x8GB Kingston @2400MHz 11-13-14-32, Titan X, Creative X-Fi, 128+2x250GB SSDs, VPC T50 Throttle + G940, MFG Crosswinds, TrackIR 5 w/ pro clip, JetSeat, Win10 Pro 64-bit, Oculus Rift, 27"@1920x1080 Settings:2.1.x - Textures:High Terrain:High Civ.Traffic:Off Water:High VisRan:Low Heatblur:High Shadows:High Res:1920x1080 RoC:1024 MSAA:4x AF:16x HDR:OFF DefS: ON GCI: ON DoF:Off Lens: OFF C/G:390m Trees:1500m R:max Gamma: 1.5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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