Possible Rafale to Brazil

[wsoul2k]

Some rumours are starting to grow here in Brazil about Rafales to navy and airforce..

 

 

This rumours just growup after Venezuela confirmation about the SU-30

 

Brazil just acquire 12 M2000-C to fill the gap until a new figther was choosed

 

At the same time some rumours questioning if the aircraft carrier SAO PAULO can fully operate the rafale was spreaded

 

The rafale is not the air force choice and a political "war" in the backstages is near to start.

 

At the same time France wanna sell the scorpene Sub to Brazil...but Brazil wanna start building the 214 and use it to as a base to the its on project of sub with german suport.

 

As we can see the L.A. war market is now open....

 

P.S. Someone have any info about the SAO PAULO capabilty to fully operate the Rafale ??

 

tks

[wsoul2k]

For you who wanna know here is a google earth coordinates

lat=-22.8963717207, lon=-43.1706873447

 

The SAO PAULO is the one with the arow

[britgliderpilot]

The Sao Paolo used to be the Foch, in French service - the Rafale did fly from the deck of the Foch in carrier trials after a ski-jump was fitted by the bow.

 

So it could operate it - whether it could operate it with a warload is a slightly different matter.

 

 

Argentina had a similar problem in the Falklands - their carrier couldn't launch an A4 with a warload without a strong wind.

[Pilotasso]

Some rumours are starting to grow here in Brazil about Rafales to navy and airforce..

 

 

This rumours just growup after Venezuela confirmation about the SU-30

 

Brazil just acquire 12 M2000-C to fill the gap until a new figther was choosed

 

At the same time some rumours questioning if the aircraft carrier SAO PAULO can fully operate the rafale was spreaded

 

The rafale is not the air force choice and a political "war" in the backstages is near to start.

 

At the same time France wanna sell the scorpene Sub to Brazil...but Brazil wanna start building the 214 and use it to as a base to the its on project of sub with german suport.

 

As we can see the L.A. war market is now open....

 

P.S. Someone have any info about the SAO PAULO capabilty to fully operate the Rafale ??

 

tks

 

Now this is ming boggling to me. The military have no say nor should they express their own interests on wich fighter manufacturer to choose from. I think the fact Brazil has a whole plethora of means like AWAC's but no fighter force at all should have left the military wanting an order soon without being picky on wich model choosen. They cannot afford this. The goverment say what it wants and the military should suck it up. Otherwise the bellyaching will only leave them as they are now, wingless. ;)

[Crusty]

Hmm, no offence intended, but Brazil has some rather more pressing matters to spend money on at this point in time

[nscode]

Everybody ALWAYS has better ways to spend money than to buy weapons of war, but unforcunatly, that is not how the world works.

[TucksonSonny]

Hmm, no offence intended, but Brazil has some rather more pressing matters to spend money on at this point in time

 

Spend money on the police force to begin with. This country is a very dangerous place. :gun_smilie:

[Pilotasso]

Hmm, no offence intended, but Brazil has some rather more pressing matters to spend money on at this point in time

 

What NScode said.

 

Brazil is located next to some ambitious countries who will seize the oportunity to get a bigger sphere of influence. In the long term it aftects the quality of living in a country. Brazil had a good airforce 20 years ago past tence. They badly need some replacement fighters. F-16's or mirage 2000's would do it fine.

[Pilotasso]

Spend money on the police force to begin with. This country is a very dangerous place. :gun_smilie:

 

Brazil has no shortage of law enforcement personel whatsoever, believe me. What they do have is an endemic gaping whole between rich and poor people. And they have far too many poor poeple to improve standards overnight.

 

Severe social problems are thus inevitable.

 

And then its useless and rather counter productive to lax on nation wide relevence internationaly. It would only agravate things more.

[Guest ThomasDWeiss]

Brazil's FAB main fighter is the F-5E/F (44 F-5E and 3 F-5F + from Saudi Arabia 6 F-5E and 3 F-5F) all being upgraded to F-5Ebr by EMBRAER with new FIAR Griffo Radars, Israeli HMD, IFF and ECM and will have late model Rafael Derby MRAAM with mid-course datalink and Python 3 SRAAM (and later A-Darter).

 

Later this year the first Mirage 2000C will be delivered and by 2008 all 10 C and 2 B will have been deployed. They will use standard FAF missiles.

 

This force will have 5 ERJ-145 AEW and 4 KC-137 as well as the CINDACTA ground based radar network to provide it with the means to deploy and operate anywhere in Brazil.

 

FAB also has some 55+ AMX (also being upgraded by ELBIT/EMBRAER) as well as some 30 (out of 99 ordered) A-29 Tucano. This close support force will have full NVG soon and precision strike capabilities when Litening 3 pods are delivered.

 

Most of this force is supported by EMBRAER and by the Brazilian subsidiary of ELBIT - the Brazilian Air Force has a long-standing policy of not buying anything that it can't manufacture in-country.

 

When Brazil leased Mirage 2000, it was understood that it would be part of a package of an order for Dassault Rafales - that is why it was such a bargain (some US$60m) and it is a logical step, after the Mirage IIIE the unit that will operate it needs some time to prepare for the Rafale.

 

As the Brazilian Air Force is modernizing the F-5 and AMX fleet as well as buying 99 A-29 (and buying UH-60 Black Hawks, upgrading 10 ex-Italian AF C-130, 9 ex-US Navy P-3 and buying 12 C-295 from Spain) it has its hands full an really does not need to worry much about Venezuela, a country that has no means to deploy and operate the Flanker in any effective way and will take a decade or more to reach IOC, by which time FAB will have a couple dozen Rafales in service, made in Brazil by EMBRAER.

[Pilotasso]

Believe me, when your pilots get their hands on the rafales theill wonder how on earth they survived with the tiger this long. Derby on the F-5 seems overkill to me. Does it have a radar to match? I ask this because thats one serious missile but without the power to back it up theres no chance to even fire it up. Your goverment should try get it onto the rafale as well.

[Guest ThomasDWeiss]

The F-5Ebr was developed with the Derby in mind, FAB wanted a fighter that could use BVR missiles and win.

[Pilotasso]

You know wich radar it uses?

[RedBear]

Spend money on the police force to begin with. This country is a very dangerous place. :gun_smilie:

 

 

That is not solve with more cops, I would say is a pandemic problem. Is not just in brazil, Is in all latin american, too many poor people. some times too few opportunities. some of these people move easy to crime activities looking for the easy money. Or simple they could not have a decent work some time because they could have the opprotunity to study and hope for a better future. It is a complex problem, but you will find that in a fabela in brazil or a Barrio in Venezuela or Colombia. Poor people with few oportunities and social programs that in most of the case don´t work it out.

 

This is something that needs years tro be solve.

[RedBear]

As the Brazilian Air Force is modernizing the F-5 and AMX fleet as well as buying 99 A-29 (and buying UH-60 Black Hawks, upgrading 10 ex-Italian AF C-130, 9 ex-US Navy P-3 and buying 12 C-295 from Spain) it has its hands full an really does not need to worry much about Venezuela, a country that has no means to deploy and operate the Flanker in any effective way and will take a decade or more to reach IOC, by which time FAB will have a couple dozen Rafales in service, made in Brazil by EMBRAER.

 

I think is right. Chavez is doing a doctrinal change in venezuelan armed forces, the SU30 is one of those changes, I think Lula and the brazilian military are aware of it. Chavez Main focus is to cut the venezuelan military, politicals and i think also economical "in cosmetical" tides with the United States. Also the fear he have is a possible military intervation from part of the USA in Venezuela. That could be in a way similar to Noriega case and as the thing develop that could happen. His is talking about a defensive war up to now. in the international scene I think Venezuela is getting alone, so i done think that the hardware update brazil is having is more a need from the brazil military apparatus than a responce to a possible threat from venezuela. But who knows the guys turns complited mad and invades brasil in a venezuelan blizkrieg!! :D just kidding....

 

One thing i was surprices is that brazil have as a back bone of the air force the F5 they will love the rafale when they see it. That would be a quantun leap.

[Pilotasso]

Im intrigued by this F-5 updates. They buy a BVR missile for it but how can an F-5 get in close if it is a very short range fighter? The only way it would get any use was if for some unthincable reason, brazil had already loast so much ground to a foreign power that it would be using brazils own bases to get close on the tigers base. o_O

[Guest ThomasDWeiss]

The F-5 will have the FIAR Griffo radar

 

http://www.pakdef.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-667.html

 

You can find a lot of info here about the Brazilian Armed Forces

 

http://www.alide.com.br/

 

For the FAB it all boils down to one thing - they want knowhow, Dassault is willing to transfer it while the others aren't, even the Chinese can't do much with the Russian technology they have as all source codes were not transfered.

 

The F-5 is ideal for Brazil - with the ERJ-145 AEW and an extensive ground based radar network and tankers they can intercept most intruders, when the 2000C is available they will have a high performance asset and the Rafale will be even better.

 

These guys are not planing to fight the US - what the FAB doctrine requires is complete command in peace-time of Brazilian Airspace , that is why they are also deploying some 50 FLIR/NVG equipped A-29 in the Amazon.

 

By the end of this year the FAB will conduct another CRUSEX

http://www.alide.com.br/Artigo/cruzex/cruzex2004.htm

 

with the French Mirage 2000/E-3 AWACS and are eager to test their F-5EBr/Derby and ERJ-145 against them - it will be interesting to see how it will go.

[wsoul2k]

Yes...this is what i im tring to know...if the rafalecan operate with an warload...have you any info about that brit ?

 

The Sao Paolo used to be the Foch, in French service - the Rafale did fly from the deck of the Foch in carrier trials after a ski-jump was fitted by the bow.

 

So it could operate it - whether it could operate it with a warload is a slightly different matter.

 

 

Argentina had a similar problem in the Falklands - their carrier couldn't launch an A4 with a warload without a strong wind.