splashman Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Hi, getting back into DCS after a long break and i thought it would be a good idea to relearn all the needed stuff with a trainer plane. So i took the C101 and learned the startup in the training mission, next step was to create a mission with a little bit of environment, some flights departing or landing while i start up the plane. When i was ready and able to taxi the plane was much more agile than in the training mission. When i finally took off i immediately damaged the gear and the flaps (due to overspeed?!?). So next try, a little bit more cautious. Again, nearly the same outcome, i was able to retrace the gear but flaps were damaged. Next start without flaps, when i leveled the plane the speed quickly increased over the maximum, in F10 view i was supersonic! I started the mission from the mission planner, from the main menue and after a restart. Always same behaviour. It would be nice if somebody could check out the attached mission, if the plane behaves for other plp similar. tiaTest01_C101.miz i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanOscar Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Hi, I've been flying your mission, and I cannot replicate the same issue here. It's strange, because other person reported the same problem. We have to investigate more on this problem. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashman Posted October 11, 2015 Author Share Posted October 11, 2015 Hi, thx for investigating. Today i made another test with a fresh booted system and it is the same behavior as yesterday. Perhaps i simply have a wrong expectation but to me it looks way overpowered. As i now have the same behavior also in the provided training mission i attached a typical track from my test mission. I easily reach supersonic speeds and i can climb to incredible heights. Pls watch the track and observe for yourself. I think i had a 1.5 update yesterday, i'll try to check the installation in case something went wrong. thx againC-101 excessive power.trk i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noober Posted November 20, 2015 Share Posted November 20, 2015 Cross posting this: http://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=148456 Looks like VEAO Hawk Pilots (such as myself) are having a similar issue. :joystick:[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:joystick: Everyone in town used to throw rocks at me and tell me I was annoying. I once knew this guy named Dilby. He threw rocks at me too. Are you gonna throw rocks at me?.... What about now? ...What about now? ... ...What about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashman Posted November 22, 2015 Author Share Posted November 22, 2015 Thx for cross posting Noober, i read the other thread and i can exactly replicate the behaviour described there. If i restart DCS and start for example the provided runway start mission from AvioDev first everything is OK and the C101 behaves as expected, even if i use my own mission. But when i restart DCS and start my own mission first, then i have the overpowered version of the C101, also in the developer provided missions, regardless of cold start or runway start. So this tells me there has to be some kind of initialization which is done the first time the module is used and cached for later use. Perhaps it is related to dynamic weather? My mission uses dynamic weather. Pls retest with the new information and also have a chat with the Hawk developers. Is there some work shared between 3rd party developers regarding FM? thx in advance i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pman Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Is there some work shared between 3rd party developers regarding FM? No Pman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buzzles Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 No Pman Could it be an underlying SFM issue? Seems odd the only two third party modules using the SFM both seem to have the same problem. Fancy trying Star Citizen? Click here! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looney Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It looks like a SFM issue as the SU25T also has the same "hulk-mode" engines.. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Commodore 64 | MOS6510 | VIC-II | SID6581 | DD 1541 | KCS Power Cartridge | 64Kb | 32Kb external | Arcade Turbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Hi guys. Please post exact steps to reproduce the bug. Steps, the mission you use, the method you follow to create a new mission, etc. Steps to reproduce it and steps to not reproduce it. You need to explain exactly every step you make to arrive to the bug, otherwise it will be impossible or too hard to find the reason, as I can't reproduce it. For example, I don't even know if you are using newly created missions or old ones that you have saved in your PC, and I don't know if you use the fast mission generator or the ME, or if you always use dynamic weather or not. Confirm that you are using Open Beta, and the version in which you saved the mission you use (pass me the mission), etc., etc. Of course you don't have to, but if you want us or ED to eventually solve it, or at least try to, I say again, you should tell us step by step everything that you do to arrive to this bug. Thank you very much :) Greetings. Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 I mean, I'm able to reproduce it using old missions like the one attached in this thread, but can't get to the reason for this. Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Can you reproduce it with a newly created mission or only with old ones? Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kontiuka Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 It looks like a SFM issue as the SU25T also has the same "hulk-mode" engines..Su-25T doesn't use SFM. It has an AFM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashman Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Hi, this weekend i tried to replicate it with a new built mission but everything worked as expected. No superpower. If i take my old mission i still have this weird behaviour but i was not able to replicate it with a new mission. I even copied the dynamic weather block from my old mission file into the new mission file but the new mission works as expected. Perhaps someone more familiar with the inner workings of the mission files can compare this attached mission with the mission in one of my previous posts in this thread. I didn't find anything relevant at first glance.Test03_C101_dyn_ramp.miz i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Hi, this weekend i tried to replicate it with a new built mission but everything worked as expected. No superpower. If i take my old mission i still have this weird behaviour but i was not able to replicate it with a new mission. I even copied the dynamic weather block from my old mission file into the new mission file but the new mission works as expected. Perhaps someone more familiar with the inner workings of the mission files can compare this attached mission with the mission in one of my previous posts in this thread. I didn't find anything relevant at first glance. Thank you for your feedback :) :thumbup: Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashman Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Hi, success, i think i found it. If you put a MiG23MLD into the mission, the C101 is overpowered. Simple test, just a C101 on the runway and nothing else -> plane behaves OK. Add a MiG23MLD -> C101 is overpowered. I attach the two missions i used for testing, just restart DCS World and select the mission with the MiG23MLD and you have the overpowered C101. I hope, now it is easy to get to the core of the problem, happy bug hunting.Test_C101EB_mit_MiG23MLD_overpowered.mizTest_C101EB_ohne_MiG23MLD_normal.miz i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I can't reproduce what you are saying. I get no overpowered C-101 if I add a MiG-23MLD. Be sure you restart DCS when you create a new mission. If you create a new mission after you reproduced the bug with an old mission, it could keep the overpowered condition. Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 BTW, you make your test faster, there is no need that you take off, just apply parking brake and add full power, if the airplane is able to move, it's overpowered. An also, I tried your last two missions of your last post and none of them presents the overpowered condition. Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashman Posted November 29, 2015 Author Share Posted November 29, 2015 Hi, just to be sure i restarted my computer and redid the tests. Everything is exactly as i described. If i load the mission with the MiG23MLD, i have an idle fuel flow of 750 PPM and the overpowered version of the plane. After restarting DCS World and load the other version of the mission only with the C101 i have an idle fuel flow of ~200 PPM and the plane behaves normally. My DCS World version is 1.5.1.47285. i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Do this: restart DCS World. Open your mission with only C-101, power is normal, then open your missions with MiG-23, without restarting DCS, power is also normal. If I restart DCS and open first the mission with the MiG-23, I get the overpower, if I open then the mission without the MiG23 and without restarting, I get the overpower also. So this means that the first mission that is opened determines how the C101 will behave in any mission until you restart DCS. What is not clear is how you got to create a mission which reproduces the bug. I suspect you created the mission after opening a previous mission that had the bug in it and without restarting. Try please the following: Restart DCS. Right after that, without opening any other mission, create a new mission in it with a C-101 and a MiG-23 in it. Save it. Fly the mission. Check that the bug does not reproduce. Thank you for your cooperation. Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 I just created this mission with only one C-101 in it, but I had opened previously your mission with the overpowered C-101 and the MiG-23 without restarting first. Therefore, the mission keeps the bug in it. It's like kind of virus that expands to other missions, and the remedy is to restart DCS :) So be sure you do not create any C-101 mission after having opened a mission that contains the bug.C-101-overpower.miz Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noober Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Great work nailing down the bug cause, well done! :joystick:[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:joystick: Everyone in town used to throw rocks at me and tell me I was annoying. I once knew this guy named Dilby. He threw rocks at me too. Are you gonna throw rocks at me?.... What about now? ...What about now? ... ...What about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vibora Posted November 29, 2015 Share Posted November 29, 2015 Thank you, but not sure that it works, still need some feedback from you guys :) Roberto "Vibora" Seoane Alas Rojas [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noober Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Alright, I've done some investigation with the Hawk. I couldn't replicate using the MiG-23MFD, so I went back to the mission that I could repeatedly and reliably get the bug: "Intercept" which is provided by VEAO. I went through each aircraft in the mission, deleting one group at a time, restarting the game and playing. For me it was Su-33s that were responsible: If I play the mission with Su33s, I get the superhawk bug, if I delete or change the Su-33s (to Su-30 for example) I get the normal Hawk behaviour. :joystick:[sIGPIC][/sIGPIC]:joystick: Everyone in town used to throw rocks at me and tell me I was annoying. I once knew this guy named Dilby. He threw rocks at me too. Are you gonna throw rocks at me?.... What about now? ...What about now? ... ...What about now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splashman Posted November 30, 2015 Author Share Posted November 30, 2015 Hi, squeezed this in before work: - retarting computer - starting DCS World - start mission editor - place a single C101 on runway (Krasnodar?!?) wirth runway start, save mission as A - restart DCS World - start mission editor - place a single C101 on runway (Krasnodar?!?) wirth runway start - place a single MiG23MLD with one waypoint, flying, save mission as B - restart DCS World - load mission A -> normal C101 - restart DCS World - load mission B -> overpowered C101 I don't know why it is differently on your system but on my system patched to the latest 1.5 beta it is exactly as described. Looks like the Hawk guys have a similar problem, just with a different plane. I have absolutely no clue how the FMs for DCS World work but perhaps somehow the player controlled plane 'inherits' the engine parameters of planes in the mission if certain criteria match? i7 2600K - 8GB - Win7/64 - Radeon R9 280 / 3GB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ells228 Posted November 30, 2015 Share Posted November 30, 2015 Yep we can't figure this one out either Vibora. It's something to do with the SFM and other aircraft in the mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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