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jcomm
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Just added ( last minute ) further updates to the K4:

 

. New Options for setting rudder and aileron trim tabs in options menu

 

What more can we ask for ? We have this, plus the added stiffness to the rudder, and possibly a few more fine tuning details !!!

Flight Simulation is the Virtual Materialization of a Dream...

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Just added ( last minute ) further updates to the K4:

 

. New Options for setting rudder and aileron trim tabs in options menu

 

What more can we ask for ? We have this, plus the added stiffness to the rudder, and possibly a few more fine tuning details !!!

 

This is probably going to be a stupid question. But does this mean that like rudder/takeoff assistance, it'll add an ability to trim rudder and aileron in flight when it isn't found on the original aircraft? Or does it mean that before flight you can tweak the adjustment tabs like the ground crews did to make it trimmed the way you want?

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Bf-109K-4

New skins

New normal map

Minor 3D issues

Flap warning buzzer sound level tuned

Control stiffening for Rudders

Campaign fixes

Gaps between fuselage and cockpit (when viewed in cockpit) fixed

Loading screen and wallpaper renders fixed

General FM improvements

New Options for setting rudder and aileron trim tabs in options menu

 

No elevator trim tabs adjust?? ...Why??

 

"Control stiffening for Rudders" .... in rudder with flettner tab?? :huh:

why ??


Edited by III/JG52_Otto_+
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But... the real 109 didn't have roll or rudder trim' date=' LoL... isn't the goal of this super realistic simulation to be... super realistic? Or is that a dumb question LOL[/quote']

 

Of course it had - trim tabs adjustable only by ground crew, on aileron, rudder and elevator.

 

They weren't adjustable from the cockpit, but only by the ground crew.

 

They were set at default / optimal deflections from the factory.

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This is probably going to be a stupid question. But does this mean that like rudder/takeoff assistance, it'll add an ability to trim rudder and aileron in flight when it isn't found on the original aircraft? Or does it mean that before flight you can tweak the adjustment tabs like the ground crews did to make it trimmed the way you want?

It's a setting you have to adjust before flight, like the ground crews did.

 

Can you access options menu while in flight? :)

 

S!

 

No

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"Control stiffening for Rudders" .... in rudder with flettner tab?? :huh:

why ??

 

"Messerschmitt Me 109 Handling and Maneuverability Tests by the Ministry of Supply. September 1940":

 

"It is at high speeds that lack of a rudder trimmer most seriously inconveniences the pilot. At 215 mph (346 km/h) the a/c is trimmed directionally, no rudder being required. At higher speeds left rudder must be applied, and at 300mph (483 km/h) about 2 deg of left rudder are needed. The rudder is very heavy at high speeds, and a large force is required to apply even such a small amount; this becomes very tiring, and affects the pilot's ability to put on more left rudder to assist a turn to the left. Consequently at high speeds the Me 109 turns more readily to the right than to the left."

 

And many other sources widely available Otto :-)

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"Messerschmitt Me 109 Handling and Maneuverability Tests by the Ministry of Supply. September 1940":

 

"It is at high speeds that lack of a rudder trimmer most seriously inconveniences the pilot. At 215 mph (346 km/h) the a/c is trimmed directionally, no rudder being required. At higher speeds left rudder must be applied, and at 300mph (483 km/h) about 2 deg of left rudder are needed. The rudder is very heavy at high speeds, and a large force is required to apply even such a small amount; this becomes very tiring, and affects the pilot's ability to put on more left rudder to assist a turn to the left. Consequently at high speeds the Me 109 turns more readily to the right than to the left."

 

And many other sources widely available Otto :-)

 

Which ME 109 was that?

Can you give me the link to the book please.

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109E radiator assembly was rather different than the late 109G/K - the most important difference being the taller rudder w/o horn balance and the presence of Flettner assist tabs.

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

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No elevator trim tabs adjust?? ...Why??

 

"Control stiffening for Rudders" .... in rudder with flettner tab?? :huh:

why ??

1. Dunno. Maybe they didn't have time for it yet? Thats a lot of changes.

2. The plane had no forces on the rudder and was working as if it was in void. So thats a very good news. Flettner tab lightens the force you have to use to use the rudder, it doesn't make it as it in pre 1.5 versions. The pre 1.5 version could, thanks to rudder, roll as fast if not faster than Fw190 at high speeds. So I am realy happy that got fixed.

 

It's great to see those improvments.

 

But... the real 109 didn't have roll or rudder trim' date=' LoL... isn't the goal of this super realistic simulation to be... super realistic? Or is that a dumb question LOL[/quote']

 

It had those trim tabs, they were just accessed on the ground, not by the pilot in flight. I am sure thats what it means. Probably in our reload menu or editor we can set those tabs on ailerons and rudder to trim it to our liking :book:

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Only 200 K-4s out ~1600 produced had Flettner rudder tabs.

 

But, although the taller rudder as well as the Flettners made the 109 a more agile machine, the tall rudders were generally only introduced on the AS engined variants, and the Flettner tabs, – as on Friedrich-Karl Müller’s Bf 109 K here and Specht's G-6/AS below- were only incorporated on a smallish percentage of production - in the case of the Bf 109 K-4 only some 200 were equipped with Flettner rudder tabs ..

from jcomm's link

 

These would have been on 1945 production K-4s so not applicable to the DCS K-4.

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109E radiator assembly was rather different than the late 109G/K - the most important difference being the taller rudder w/o horn balance and the presence of Flettner assist tabs.

K4 have more diferences than G2 or G4

everything Kurfurst said...

and, ..

a more powerful engine.

a bigger engine oil tank.

a retractable tail wheel

a stronger shock absorber in landing gear legs.

ailerons.with flettner tabs.

avionics, etc.


Edited by III/JG52_Otto_+
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The only 109 that was tested in Britain with rudder Flettners was a nightfighter G-6 captured in 1944. The description of the aircraft controls regarding the rudder control is very brief, however, but in my read it does not seem to indicate particular control force issues at high speed, which OTOH they do note for the elevators etc. It says:

 

"The rudder is fairly heavy but not uncomfortably so. As there is no rudder trimming device, it is necessary to apply right rudder for take-off and left rudder at high speeds. "

 

So imho its good that they introduced rudder control forces to make this control feel more like that it acts against considerable force (and not presenting instant full deflections), and hopefully they won't overdo it and make it restrictive at high speed.

http://www.kurfurst.org - The Messerschmitt Bf 109 Performance Resource Site

 

Vezérünk a bátorság, Kísérőnk a szerencse!

-Motto of the RHAF 101st 'Puma' Home Air Defense Fighter Regiment

The Answer to the Ultimate Question of the K-4, the Universe, and Everything: Powerloading 550 HP / ton, 1593 having been made up to 31th March 1945, 314 K-4s were being operated in frontline service on 31 January 1945.

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These options are like those some might have on their flight stick to trim their stick, they are like auto-rudder and take-off assistance as far as I understand. I currently leave them set to 0. I think eventually they will be added to all WWII aircraft.

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But... the real 109 didn't have roll or rudder trim' date=' LoL... isn't the goal of this super realistic simulation to be... super realistic? Or is that a dumb question LOL[/quote']

 

The real 109 didn't have take off assistance or auto rudder either, but some additions are made to make the game more accessible to people that aren't ready for the hardcore aspects of the sim.

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Just added ( last minute ) further updates to the K4:

 

. New Options for setting rudder and aileron trim tabs in options menu

 

What more can we ask for ? We have this, plus the added stiffness to the rudder, and possibly a few more fine tuning details !!!

 

Yes! I am very excited about the new trim tab options and the new rudder improvements. I really like the BF-109 K4, a whole lot. He is a handful until wheels up, but, once he in the air, he is a really likable fellow. :pilotfly:

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..., and hopefully they won't overdo it and make it restrictive at high speed.

 

I think you are very optimistic :music_whistling: .. if you take account that the actual tendency (DCS:Bf109K4 ver 1.2.16) is crazy nose-up with elevator trim set in zero (neutral) at any speed.

This behavior seem a lot with the conclusion of the diving test performed with a Bf-109F (with wing of G series) as you can see in pages 16 and 18

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/Diving_Test_109F_W.Nr.9228_ger_eng.pdf

 

The Bf-109F in test, have strong tendency to nose-up in dive at full throttle and about 900 km/h TAS, it was eliminated folding the elevator fixed trim tabs.

in page 16 say:

In reference to tall tail with flettner-tab,

""Unlike the earlier flights with the horn mass balance tail (q.v. flight report Nr. 879/270) the plane was stable at the yaw axis up to the highest speeds.""

 

and in reference to nose-up tendency, and trim .they say.

"" Unlike the idle dives, it was not possible to hold the angle of dives at full throttle with the same trim setting, cause the upward torque of the engine. Trim tabs were set to nose heavy to reach a similar force development, like in idle dives "".

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I think you are very optimistic :music_whistling: .. if you take account that the actual tendency (DCS:Bf109K4 ver 1.2.16) is crazy nose-up with elevator trim set in zero (neutral) at any speed.

This behavior seem a lot with the conclusion of the diving test performed with a Bf-109F (with wing of G series) as you can see in pages 16 and 18

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/me109/Diving_Test_109F_W.Nr.9228_ger_eng.pdf

 

The Bf-109F in test, have strong tendency to nose-up in dive at full throttle and about 900 km/h TAS, it was eliminated folding the elevator fixed trim tabs.

in page 16 say:

In reference to tall tail with flettner-tab,

""Unlike the earlier flights with the horn mass balance tail (q.v. flight report Nr. 879/270) the plane was stable at the yaw axis up to the highest speeds.""

 

and in reference to nose-up tendency, and trim .they say.

"" Unlike the idle dives, it was not possible to hold the angle of dives at full throttle with the same trim setting, cause the upward torque of the engine. Trim tabs were set to nose heavy to reach a similar force development, like in idle dives "".

 

I agree

 

Supongo

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Otto,

 

what has yaw stability ( in your reference ) have to do with control forces ?

 

Don't you think that, as it is presently, the rudder has way too much authority ( full deflection possible with NO effort at ANY speed... ) ? This is one of the items that will get addressed by 1.5. Isn't this good ?

 

We will also get the chance to adjust the trim tabs ( before flight ) for rudder and aileron. This is also great, as far as I am concerned, but you can leave them at their default settings.


Edited by jcomm

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Otto,

 

what has yaw stability ( in your reference ) have to do with control forces ?

 

Yaw stability means NO corrections or NO control forces in the rudder at cruising speed.

You can read the attached "Bf-109 G10 report By Mark Hanna and Eric Brown",

page 3 say.

 

"As you climb, you're aware of holding in a little right rudder to keep the ball in the middle, but the foot loads are light, and it's no problem. Level off and power back to 30 inches (1 ATA) and 2,100rpm. The speed has picked up to the 109's cruise of about 400km/h, and now the ball is right in the middle, and no rudder input is necessary."

 

page 4 say:

"The rudder is effective and of medium feel up to 500km/h. It becomes heavier above this speed, but regardless, the lack of rudder trim is not a problem for the type of operations we carry out with this airplane".

Flying the Bf 109G10 by Mark Hanna.pdf

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Yaw stability doesn't means that, but you'll be able now to set a trim tab to the speed you like. Of course you'll have the opposite at low speeds but that'll be your choice.

 

S!

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Yaw stability means NO corrections or NO control forces in the rudder at cruising speed.

You can read the attached "Bf-109 G10 report By Mark Hanna and Eric Brown",

page 3 say.

 

"As you climb, you're aware of holding in a little right rudder to keep the ball in the middle, but the foot loads are light, and it's no problem. Level off and power back to 30 inches (1 ATA) and 2,100rpm. The speed has picked up to the 109's cruise of about 400km/h, and now the ball is right in the middle, and no rudder input is necessary."

 

page 4 say:

"The rudder is effective and of medium feel up to 500km/h. It becomes heavier above this speed, but regardless, the lack of rudder trim is not a problem for the type of operations we carry out with this airplane".

 

Sometimes I am not sure you know what you are arguing about...

 

The helpers we are getting are probably more for helping with deficiencies in our plastic controllers than anything else...

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