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AIM-120 on the Tomcat


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That's just it. No one is asking for accuracy to be reduced.

 

But it is Ace Combat, after all there is game mode. You can turn it off, but that doesn't matter for some reason.

 

 

Putting a 120 on a Fleet F-14A/B is throwing Loadout and Capability Accuracy out the window as Fleet birds were not capable of deploying this missile.

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There's a big difference between mounting a missile for separation and carry tests and having it fully integrated. The image showing an F-14 launcing an AIM-120 might be just this, a dumb missile wire

AWG-9 was very much capable of using the 120. Hence, these test photos of an F-14A. Though, I’m not saying anything about adding them. I think the 120 should never touch any pylon of the tomcat in DCS

That's weird because the first AIM-120A was delivered in 1991

Putting a 120 on a Fleet F-14A/B is throwing Loadout and Capability Accuracy out the window as Fleet birds were not capable of deploying this missile.

You keep saying this, we get it.

 

So you simulate USN Tomcats by not using the 120. Nothing is lost.

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Will the F-14 modules be integrated with the other modules including the FC3? Yes. Therefore, it's not a developer decision. They must adhere to the rules and standards ED set to ensure multiplayer is fair. It's also why the EA was removed from this game years ago.

 

You can mod the AIM-120s and enjoy them in single player for all I care. Don't push for an official integration though, it's silly.

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Will the F-14 modules be integrated with the other modules including the FC3? Yes. Therefore, it's not a developer decision. They must adhere to the rules and standards ED set to ensure multiplayer is fair. It's also why the EA was removed from this game years ago.

 

You can mod the AIM-120s and enjoy them in single player for all I care. Don't push for an official integration though, it's silly.

Fairness is unaffected. It's automatically fair because it's an option.

 

If 120 is not fair, then labels, game mode, infinite whatever is unfair. DCS has all of this.

 

There is no issue here.

 

There is nothing silly about official AMRAAM feature, I fear that this is a mindset that comes from being over defensive of the sim. No one loses anything from AMRAAM loadouts, not even the most diehard fans of historical accuracy.

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Oh for crying out loud,

 

Party A, Put it in it'll be cool,

Party B, it's unrealistic and inaccurate

Party A, Accuracy is unaffected.

Rinse.. Lather...Repeat...

 

We are going in circles over one Item, that Obviously is not on the intended modules official capability list, the answer is a simple one.

 

 

Party A mod it in themselves after they get it instead of pushing for something that never happened to be integrated.

 

Simple. Same as every other minority group that wanted to put missiles not part of an aircraft's capability on a aircraft (AIM54 on F-15C etc etc)

 

If not, we should go back and put AIM-9X's on the F-15s, R77s on the Su27, Newer AIM9s on the Sabre, AGMs on the L39C, etc etc.

 

You get where I'm going here?

 

Keep the loadouts and capabilities accurate for the bird they are going to Model, F-14A/B.

 

F-14A/Bs Radar in the fleet, not to mention the pylons were not capable of AIM120 Deployment.

 

If it's something you want to have just because, then mod it in yourself,

 

Dont push a developer to abandon historical accuracy in the weapons deployment department because you want it for whatever reason.


Edited by SkateZilla
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  • 5 years later...

For those interested in seing what it would be like to have Aim-120B on Tomcat you can test if it works on "Exercize Red Flag" server. it is IC compliant. No client or server mods needed.

When you occupy any Tomcat  you will have them already on your pylons.

There are few F-14s of that  VX-4 Evaluators squadron armed with 6 54s and  2 amraams. Eagles have two Aim-9X on outer pylons. And Fog of War is enabled on the server. To provide SA for F-15 and Mig-29. Flankers are armed with Chinese missiles and represent their PLAF clones. Fulcrums are representing their latest Mig-29M variant. 

Server is all about fictional scenarios.  Everything that is possible to do within IC compliance is being done to raise the bar for Blue and Red sides.  And bring them to their best ability and combat effectivness. If there was a single suadron that used and shot those weapons we will add them. 

Those who are ok with that kind of gameplay will find something new there.

Those that are all about "realistic" stuff - you have 99% of multiplayer servers that will do  that for you.

Exercise Red Flag is fictional in it`s nature where Eagles and Vipers pretend to be Flankers and Migs. So anything you will find on this server is a way less of a stretch than stuff they do irl at Nellis and Eielson. 

Peace!

 


Edited by musolo

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On 8/30/2015 at 3:07 PM, SkateZilla said:

 

 

F-14A/Bs Radar in the fleet, not to mention the pylons were not capable of AIM120 Deployment.

 

 

AWG-9 was very much capable of using the 120. Hence, these10F12011-7A7C-43EA-87CF-A157D0574457.png test photos of an F-14A. Though, I’m not saying anything about adding them. I think the 120 should never touch any pylon of the tomcat in DCS.

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I’m pretty sure the AWG-9 in the photo above would have been modified for the test shots only, likewise the pylon interface.

It wouldn’t be a standard line bird. (PMTC flash notwithstanding).

This test took place in 1982, quite a while ago! And only a handful of shots were completed.

Im not party to the specifics of ‘why’ the F-14/AIM-120 joining didn’t happen, but since the test program didn’t go full term, I’m guessing that it either A) Tomcat didn’t really need it, B) The costs were too prohibitive, or C) Adding -120 to the cat, systems wise, may have hindered some other ability in some way.

 

Im just spit-balling however.

 

*The hockey stick antenna on the port nose gear door is interesting, never seen that on the -14s I’ve seen.


Edited by garyscott
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IIRC, there was also a huge inventory of Sparrows and DoD had the mind to kill the Tomcat since 1991 anyway.  If the Cold War lasted 5 more years then the whole fleet is converted to F-14D and AMRAAM would have been a certainty. 

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Alternatively the F-14 could have been retired prior to 2000 being wholesale replaced by the F-25 after the A12 was cancelled and money diverted.

 

the trouble with what-if scenarios is they are somewhat boundless and can be taken whichever direction you’re predisposed toward

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10 hours ago, garyscott said:

I’m pretty sure the AWG-9 in the photo above would have been modified for the test shots only, likewise the pylon interface.

It wouldn’t be a standard line bird. (PMTC flash notwithstanding).

This test took place in 1982, quite a while ago! And only a handful of shots were completed.

Im not party to the specifics of ‘why’ the F-14/AIM-120 joining didn’t happen, but since the test program didn’t go full term, I’m guessing that it either A) Tomcat didn’t really need it, B) The costs were too prohibitive, or C) Adding -120 to the cat, systems wise, may have hindered some other ability in some way.

 

Im just spit-balling however.

 

*The hockey stick antenna on the port nose gear door is interesting, never seen that on the -14s I’ve seen.

 

 

Really came down to the Pentagon deciding to put the money towards the LANTIRN conversion instead of the AIM-120 software update from what I heard. If geopolitics hadn't been shifting away from the Cold War, I'd imagine things would have been different.

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Yeah, Grumman was like..."well the plane was designed to carry bombs you just didn't want them...for the money you gave us you have 2 options. 1. AIM-120 integration for the F-14 as we have the software update for the AWG-9 ready and just need to bug test it and put it into the planes, or, 2. LANTIRN TGP integration so it can use LGBs"

 

The Navy saw the shifting landscape after the end of the Cold War and the lessening need for Air superiority and went with option 2. The rest is History. 


Edited by Southernbear
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On 8/31/2015 at 4:07 AM, SkateZilla said:

F-14A/Bs Radar in the fleet, not to mention the pylons were not capable of AIM120 Deployment.

 

 

That's depends on................................

198_92201_642688.jpg

 

F-14A_AIM-120_Test_2.jpg

 

On 1/10/2021 at 12:49 PM, garyscott said:

I’m pretty sure the AWG-9 in the photo above would have been modified for the test shots only, likewise the pylon interface.

It wouldn’t be a standard line bird. (PMTC flash notwithstanding).

 

 

Perhaps

Despite Iranian local modify,nor fleet aircraft was carried in this shape which now a daily scene on servers as if you defines "accuracy" in such narrow aspect...............

 

198_92204_368157.jpg

Screen_190901_202410.jpg

 

Alone with D/G/H Sidewinder/VTAS or triple AM which currently not yet available,it's a good feature to applies the Tomcat with AIM-120!

 

As of X-31 for Phantom or Icecream barrel on F4U,it ought to have capable to use them despite if those of loadings are "officially issued".

 

 


Edited by KL0083
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Given the size of the AIM-120, especially the fin clipped AIM-120C, it would have been interesting to see how many AMRAAMs the F-14 could potentially have carried.

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There's a big difference between mounting a missile for separation and carry tests and having it fully integrated. The image showing an F-14 launcing an AIM-120 might be just this, a dumb missile wired to a trigger switch just to test actual missile separation. I'm actually not sure how far along they got with modifying the radar in the F-14 to actually support the missiles and like I said above, not actually needed for basic separation and carry tests.

 

This is the same reason why images of IRIAF F-14s carrying AA-10s, R-73s or Hawks prove nothing more than that they managed to mechanically attach them to the aircraft.

 

What we do know is that the hardware and software modifications to launch an actually guiding and working AIM-120 never made it to fleet aircraft.

 

The extended ability to carry dumb air to ground munitions however were fully integrated and if you hung those munitions on the actual fleet F-14 aircraft they would for sure work, the navy just didn't.

 

This is the reasoning behind us adding them, the actual in use aircraft could use those bombs and rockets if they had wanted to. The AIM-120, they could not.

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On 1/9/2021 at 12:43 AM, BreaKKer said:

AWG-9 was very much capable of using the 120. Hence, these10F12011-7A7C-43EA-87CF-A157D0574457.png test photos of an F-14A. Though, I’m not saying anything about adding them. I think the 120 should never touch any pylon of the tomcat in DCS.

I hope someone makes this skin. 

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2 hours ago, CarbonFox said:

Given the size of the AIM-120, especially the fin clipped AIM-120C, it would have been interesting to see how many AMRAAMs the F-14 could potentially have carried.

 

AIM-120A & B probably just like Sparrows with single mounts eventually dual mounts on the gloves and TER in the tunnel so 8 to 10.  Imagine it would be 6 x AMRAAM and 4 x Sidewinder for CAP while strike packages would probably just one or two AMRAAM  

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From the limited sources I have found their were some issues with getting the AIM-120 to separate cleanly from the Cat in certain circumstances that didn't trouble the AIM-7. 

 

This is and the required avionics additions were slated to cost $1bn to modify all aircraft in the fleet to support. With the Cold War ending, the fact that the Tomcat already had a powerful Fox-3 missile and a need to provide the fleet with a long range bomber to replace the A-6 it made much more sense to use those funds to provide the Tomcat with the ability to self target and self guide precision munitions - hence the LANTIRN pod. 

 

Heatblur have made the right choice not including a non-operational missile. If you can't manage with the Phoenix, AIM-120 is not going to bring you any benefit. 

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9 hours ago, DD_Fenrir said:

From the limited sources I have found their were some issues with getting the AIM-120 to separate cleanly from the Cat in certain circumstances that didn't trouble the AIM-7. 

 

 

Considering how an F-14 managed to shot itself with a rear mounted AIM-7 on at least one occasion, i wouldn't call the Sparrow exactly a trouble-less implementation 🤔

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In the documentary Tomcat Tales "Snort" talks about how there was a plan to integrate the AIM-120 with the Tomcat, but because the A-6 was phasing out and the Super Hornet was not yet available, there was a rush to fill that role and adding the lantern pod to the Tomcat was his task, and when he presented it to the brass, they asked him how they would pay for this upgrade. He had determined that the Tomcat upgrade to the AIM-120 would cost close to 1 Billion and making the Tomcat a bombing platform would cost about the same. So they scrapped the plan to add the AIM-120, and went with the lantern pod. His rational was the Tomcat had the AIM-54 for years and never got targets to fire it at, so why not fill a needed role and extend the life of the F-14 in the process.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The As converted to Ds and the F-14s produced as Ds out of the factory had a version of the AWG-9 that could use the AIM-120s (the APG-71) However the Aim-120 was never fully integrated into the F-14 fleet mostly due to budget cuts. I might not be totally accurate, feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

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