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Questions about Su-27 (Intercept Mission)


ekg
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I've gone through most of the training and have been trying out the Su-27 Intercept mission (in the instant combat/action section).

 

I have a lot of question which I hope can be cleared up

 

When I am in BVR mode and turn on radar (izl in cyrillic is shown on HUD) there appears to be a weird glitch where there are two columns of stacked targets on the HUD (sort of like a broken screen). When in close combat mode I can't lock on to targets when I have my radar on. I can when it's off and I only have heat sensor on. I think these two issues might have to do with the fact that there is AWACS, or the enemy is using some sort of jamming.

 

When shooting the 73R I can't tell whether I need radar on or not. Generally I've turned it on in order to get the missle to fire. What I know for certain is that it takes a longer hold to fire but I'm not sure whether my radar needs to be on or if AWACS is enough.

 

As an aside are missile fire and forget or do I need to keep tracking the enemy until it hits or misses? I expect thermal to be fire and forget.

 

I've disabled all the assists like labels and such. How do I tell which plane is what in the sky? I've had difficulties with this. For example I locked on to the B-52s first and because I focused on them I got shot down by the F-5s. I've also had an instance where I shot my wingman down by accident.

 

Also does the radar detection warning system warn about missiles that my wingman shoots? When I assign a target to him and he shoots I get beeps that are similar. However at that instant there didn't appear anything coming my way.

 

Any help on this would be most appreciated. I really want to be able to get this one every time (and a few of the other missions) before I venture out online.


Edited by ekg
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I've gone through most of the training and have been trying out the Su-27 Intercept mission (in the instant combat/action section).

 

I have a lot of question which I hope can be cleared up

 

When I am in BVR mode and turn on radar (izl in cyrillic is shown on HUD) there appears to be a weird glitch where there are two columns of stacked targets on the HUD (sort of like a broken screen). When in close combat mode I can't lock on to targets when I have my radar on. I can when it's off and I only have heat sensor on. I think these two issues might have to do with the fact that there is AWACS, or the enemy is using some sort of jamming.

I think what you're describing are jamming strobes, a strobe is a jumbled collection of lines running from top to bottom on the HUD. You can lock onto these but you won't get any range.

When shooting the 73R I can't tell whether I need radar on or not. Generally I've turned it on in order to get the missle to fire. What I know for certain is that it takes a longer hold to fire but I'm not sure whether my radar needs to be on or if AWACS is enough.

R73 and other IR missiles such as R-27ET are fire and forget, no radar needed only independent seeker lock given by the launch authorise cue.

 

I've disabled all the assists like labels and such. How do I tell which plane is what in the sky? I've had difficulties with this. For example I locked on to the B-52s first and because I focused on them I got shot down by the F-5s. I've also had an instance where I shot my wingman down by accident

Large aircraft have a bigger radar signature than fighters. Also target speed is a good give away. Anything travelling above 800 is likely a fighter.

Also does the radar detection warning system warn about missiles that my wingman shoots? When I assign a target to him and he shoots I get beeps that are similar. However at that instant there didn't appear anything coming my way.

Your RWR only tells you when you are locked onto or fired at by another radar. There is a bug that the friendly AI can sometimes fire on you.

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The in-game tutorials are nice, but for more complete tutorials, I suggest you head over to flankertraining.com and download the videos and get better familiarized with the usage of the Su-27's weapons and radar. Although they represent the older versions of DCS, the principles and the systems are same.

 

Here is a video of the same mission you are doing, done by Ironhand himself

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...

Also does the radar detection warning system warn about missiles that my wingman shoots? When I assign a target to him and he shoots I get beeps that are similar....

You shouldn't be getting the launch warning when he locks up a target but you will get a lock warning, if his radar is washing over you. I noticed that several times in the course of this mission.

 

If you follow Kunz's suggestion and watch my YouTube video, I'd suggest that you subscribe to the Flankertraining.com channel. Anything new is going to be published on YouTube rather than the Flankertaining website.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Thanks for the info! I'll check out those videos!

 

Large aircraft have a bigger radar signature than fighters. Also target speed is a good give away. Anything travelling above 800 is likely a fighter.

 

How would I know that an a plane has a bigger radar signature? On the MFD they all look the same to me.

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T...

How would I know that an a plane has a bigger radar signature? On the MFD they all look the same to me.

They'll be bigger on the HUD. The first time you see a fighter-sized aircraft and a bomber-sized aircraft together on the HUD, you'll have no problem deciding which is which. :) If you view figure Figure 50: "СНП" (TWS) MODE in the Su-27 manual (pg 54??), you'll see the two target sizes. Two dashes (--) tight against each other is "small". Four dashes (----) tight against each other is large.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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They'll be bigger on the HUD. The first time you see a fighter-sized aircraft and a bomber-sized aircraft together on the HUD, you'll have no problem deciding which is which. :) If you view figure Figure 50: "СНП" (TWS) MODE in the Su-27 manual (pg 54??), you'll see the two target sizes. Two dashes (--) tight against each other is "small". Four dashes (----) tight against each other is large.

 

I remember that from the training as well. This only applies to BVR mode right? However there is a problem is with jamming from the bombers(?). Any way to determine from MFD?

 

Also I noticed there is another thread about this mission :) From what I read / understood there is a a way to reduce the radar detection radius / distance to get around the BVR issue. Is this a confirmed? Also how do I know what my detection distance is? Is it based on the modes? AVT ZPS and PPS (these are cyrillic)? By default it's AVT (auto) so I think it should work. Also which is ZPS and PPS? Is ZPS high frequency pulse and PPS low frequency? is high frequency better for longer distance?

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I remember that from the training as well. This only applies to BVR mode right? However there is a problem is with jamming from the bombers(?). Any way to determine from MFD?

 

Also I noticed there is another thread about this mission :) From what I read / understood there is a a way to reduce the radar detection radius / distance to get around the BVR issue. Is this a confirmed? Also how do I know what my detection distance is? Is it based on the modes? AVT ZPS and PPS (these are cyrillic)? By default it's AVT (auto) so I think it should work. Also which is ZPS and PPS? Is ZPS high frequency pulse and PPS low frequency? is high frequency better for longer distance?

 

The two jamming strobes are from the bombers but there's no way to determine that from the HDD (Heads Down Display), especially since the smaller fighters aren't showing either due to distance and size or masking by the jamming strobes. You only know it, if you know how the mission is constructed.

 

Use interleaved (Auto), when you aren't sure of the potential target's aspect. It's a general compromise mode. If you know the target will be heading toward you, switching to high PRFs (ППС) will let you see him at a greater distance. If he is heading away from you, then medium PRFs (ЗПС) will let you see him farther out.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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...From what I read / understood there is a a way to reduce the radar detection radius / distance to get around the BVR issue...

Sorry. Overlooked this part of your question., though I'm not exactly sure what you mean.

 

At mission start, if you continue to fly straight and level, you will need to raise your scan zone shortly after they are clear of the jamming strobe to maintain contact. Other than that, however, you'd need to do nothing. Without the jamming signal, they'd be visible at the top of the HUD in interleaved PRF (ABT) mode as soon as you enter the mission.

 

Truth be told, they are already visible to you on the HUD at mission start but they're buried at the top of the right strobe. Move your designator to the 50km height over that strobe and lock. You will most likely lock one of them. Then you're off to the races.

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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Thanks for the info Ironhand!

 

I was referring to this in the other thread by pepin:

2- when you get enemy ECM. Try set your radar range in 50 km. This is cuz this is the distance your radar get a valid lock with distance and altitud. Anyway you can lock the enemy ECM but you never know the distance by radar beyond 50 km in this case. At this case the best way to get distance is looking in your EWR signal power.

 

Is he referring to the PRF when he says to set the distance to 50 km?

 

Also for your last response do you mean pointing the radar up a few degrees?

 

Also what do you mean by "clear of the jamming strobe to maintain contact"

I understand that ECM will make it hard to lock on for the enemy but at the same time will make you more visible due to the noise. Does this somehow change with range?

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Thanks for the info Ironhand!

 

I was referring to this in the other thread by pepin:

 

 

Is he referring to the PRF when he says to set the distance to 50 km?

No. He's referring to the display range. 50 km is the default setting. And that's what it's set at when you enter the mission, by the way. You can't change the range of the radar itself. It'll travel as far as it travels. All you can change are 1) how far ahead of your nose you want it to display what it "sees" (25, 50, 100, 200 km) and 2) how soon it can break out a contact depending on aspect (ABT, ППС, ЗПС).

 

Also for your last response do you mean pointing the radar up a few degrees?

If you leave the "expected target range" at the default "10", all you'll need to do is go to +1 for the expected target altitude. You wouldn't need to go higher unless he was practically right above you.

 

Also what do you mean by "clear of the jamming strobe to maintain contact"

I understand that ECM will make it hard to lock on for the enemy but at the same time will make you more visible due to the noise. Does this somehow change with range?

:) If you fly straight and level right from mission start, the bombers move to the right faster than the F5s and unmask at least 1 of them. It's at about that time that you will have to raise the expected target altitude one notch (+1) to continue seeing the F5 (maintain the contact). He is far enough above you at that point in relation to your radar's cone that he is about to fly above it.


Edited by Ironhand

YouTube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCU1...CR6IZ7crfdZxDg

 

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Win 10 Pro x64, ASUS Z97 Pro MoBo, Intel i7-4790K, EVGA GTX 970 4GB, HyperX Savage 16GB, Samsung 850 EVO 250 GB SSD, 2x Seagate Hybrid Drive 2TB Raid 0.

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