Is there any reason to take R-27R over ER?

[Erdem]

As the title says. I'm guessing the R is a bit more nimble due to lower weight, but I'm not sure by how much and how noticeable it is.

[BlazexX23Xx]

Nope,there is no reason to do that.

[Boberro]

If you kill you get +10 to pride :D

 

No, there is no point taking them.

[SilentGun]

the only reason there in the game Is to make more of an 80's type mission where ER's aren't available

[Erdem]

Thank you for the answers. I figured as much but I thought I'd ask the veterans here too.

 

 

Forget all what you read out there about the missiles. This is a game and need be balanced. Hope you understand what I mean...

 

Then this must be the worst balance job I've ever seen. There's no reason to take Russian birds over the F-15 other than pure nostalgia factor, they're horribly outclassed due to the magic of the AMRAAM and the 15's superior radar. They removed the AE which gave the Flanker at least some kind of parity due to it never entering operational service. In the meanwhile the F-15C got the AMRAAM-C which entered service in the late 90's, giving the 15 even further edge. No, this game is not "balanced" at all. No wonder everyone stacks the F-15's on multiplayer servers.

 

Though that's a discussion for another topic.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Erdem

[Mowgli]

Pepin - In the image you posted - how can you tell that it's the R version and not the ER?

 

Erdem - yes, by default, a beginner simmer will choose the Eagle over the Flanker for it's advantage in BVR (everyone is eager to shoot first) but as you know the Flanker's advantage is within WVR so the mind game is to lure the Eagle into your playground where you have the upper hand.

 

It's more interesting & challenging from my point of view.

 

On the same servers you fly you will find veteran Flanker pilots with a list of many teeth grinding and frustrated Eagle pilots.

 

Practice - Practice - Practice and when it comes to multiplayer -

 

Patience is a Virtue

 

Enjoy

[Boberro]

Pepin - In the image you posted - how can you tell that it's the R version and not the ER?

 

Overall Russians tend to use R instead of ER somehow.

And Su-27S\P is really poor bird compared to the F-15C, I do not see an bias here.

[Mowgli]

And Su-27S\P is really poor bird compared to the F-15C, I do not see an bias here.

 

Reality or DCS?

[Exorcet]

Pepin - In the image you posted - how can you tell that it's the R version and not the ER?

 

The ER has a wider rear body. Though the picture isn't that great and on this particular screen I can't really tell.

 

As for the topic, there aren't really any advantages to using the non E R-27's. They are either for time correct weapons or for challenges, like the AIM-7/9P

on the F-15.

 

Su-27 vs F-15 the Flanker's advantages are better internal fuel endurance, IRST, IR missiles, and the really big one, the AWACS/GCI datalink, though there are some bugs hurting it at the moment.

[Boberro]

Reality or DCS?

Reality, and it should be same in DCS.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Boberro

[Ragnarok]

As the title says. I'm guessing the R is a bit more nimble due to lower weight, but I'm not sure by how much and how noticeable it is.

Substitute does not have a lot of, but this for example: (zip-tacview)

R vs ER.rar

[BlazexX23Xx]

Pepin - In the image you posted - how can you tell that it's the R version and not the ER?

 

Erdem - yes, by default, a beginner simmer will choose the Eagle over the Flanker for it's advantage in BVR (everyone is eager to shoot first) but as you know the Flanker's advantage is within WVR so the mind game is to lure the Eagle into your playground where you have the upper hand.

 

It's more interesting & challenging from my point of view.

 

On the same servers you fly you will find veteran Flanker pilots with a list of many teeth grinding and frustrated Eagle pilots.

 

Practice - Practice - Practice and when it comes to multiplayer -

 

Patience is a Virtue

 

Enjoy

 

It's the R version,look:

 

R-27R

 

 

R-27ER

 

Edited June 26, 2015 by BlazexX23Xx

[Wizard_03]

Then this must be the worst balance job I've ever seen. There's no reason to take Russian birds over the F-15 other than pure nostalgia factor, they're horribly outclassed due to the magic of the AMRAAM

 

Not if you get in close.. :holloween:

[Boberro]

The what?

[3Sqn_Sven]

Blaze, the first picture you show are ER and ET's. The second photo is a mix of R and ER. Look at the difference in length of the motor behind the forward fins.

[lavisitadelandroide]

It is unbalanced, but not THAT bad. Flanker can still really beat an eagle using wisely the long shot combination R-27 ER/ET. If the Eagle pilot comes into the defensive and does not do the right maneuver, the flanker gets close and splash it . And thats it. The tactics of the eagle pilot using amraam makes all the difference. As always, pilot skill and tactics win. The Eagle has a good SA and the missile capability, but the flanker has too its surprises and advantages (Even both game and real life) and thats a fact.

[BlazexX23Xx]

Blaze, the first picture you show are ER and ET's. The second photo is a mix of R and ER. Look at the difference in length of the motor behind the forward fins.

 

No, it's the R version :

 

 

Yes the second is a mix of R and ER,i never said it isn't.

[Frostie]

Blaze, the first picture you show are ER and ET's.

They look like R-27R to me, just look at the motor position in relation to the second picture, also the first picture is very stretched on the first post.

[Svend_Dellepude]

In this game? the R-27R? No is not good idea take the R-27R because this missile have been drastically downgraded by ED.

 

You say that about all russian missiles! :megalol:

[Stuge]

There's no reason to take Russian birds over the F-15 other than pure nostalgia factor, they're horribly outclassed due to the magic of the AMRAAM and the 15's superior radar.

 

If there is any chance of using terrain masking in the battle area, then considering a purely 1v1 situation the Flanker becomes superior because of its superior close-range scanning, combat and stealth abilities

Edited June 30, 2015 by Stuge

[Chrinik]

Yes, the Flanker has some advantages...one of them was 20km more range on the Eagle.

The ER was probably designed to out-shoot the american missles so that they can atleast get one solid track without being in imediate danger themselfs.

 

Serriously, the R27ER has about 20km (obviously all parameters perfect, but same goes for the Amraam) more range then the Amraam-C and ingame it has about 1km less range.

Meaning you don´t even get first shot advantage on your SARH missles while the Eagle can fire back, wait for pitbull then hard break and dodge your missle while you sit there like an idiot trying not to break to hard in case you break the lock and waste the missile.

 

Sure, using the Flanker well gets you to eat Eagles, I´m sure of it, but this is a simulator.

I want the parameters of the planes be as close as possible to real life, this includes weapons.

 

If I wanted "gamey" physics, I´d not play DCS.

Edited July 2, 2015 by Chrinik

[Chromius]

Just an Idea, they may still be using R-27R's because of old inventory. It costs quite a lot to get rid of outdated unused ordinance. (One of the reasons for Vietnam and carpet bombing empty jungles was that it would have bankrupted the US to have properly disposed of all the leftover WWII unused GP bombs.)

 

Even in the ground forces they would give you all kinds of extra live grenade fuses for the training grenades and ammo to waste during exercises so they did not have to be properly disposed of or checked back in.

 

I have a question on the R-27ER field date, as I am working on 1991 pre-soviet breakup "plausible" US vs USSR mission. What date was the R-27ER available? Sometimes they are ready for combat but not employed as they saved the newest munitions for the big boys. Like in the Gulf War they had the AIM-120A but never used them they only used the AIM-7 Sparrow.

 

So say July 1991, was the R-27ER available for the USSR vs the US still fielding the AIM-7 Sparrow and the AIM-9L (no p?)

[GGTharos]

Just an Idea, they may still be using R-27R's because of old inventory.

 

More like because they're not buying new inventory. These missiles have a shelf life, so it's not really advantageous to keep them around, disposal problems aside.

 

I have a question on the R-27ER field date, as I am working on 1991 pre-soviet breakup "plausible" US vs USSR mission. What date was the R-27ER available? Sometimes they are ready for combat but not employed as they saved the newest munitions for the big boys. Like in the Gulf War they had the AIM-120A but never used them they only used the AIM-7 Sparrow.

IIRC R-27ER was available in limited quantities in 1991. I have not seen any training videos featuring this missile though, they seem to train with the R-27R instead.

 

If they really intend to use the ER, then this is a training flaw. OTOH the training stuff I saw was old (ER definitely available at the time though).

 

So say July 1991, was the R-27ER available for the USSR vs the US still fielding the AIM-7 Sparrow and the AIM-9L (no p?)

In July 1991, you might have a few R-27ERs lying around, and they'd be used up very quickly. Further, they're probably not very capable against the US fielding integrated ECM etc, something that is not represented in-game. Conversely, AIM-120A was also not quite the performer that is the 120B and onwards.

 

At that time the US was using the AIM-7M(H) and AIM-9M, not L. AIM-9M was introduced in '82, and had gone through 7-8 upgrades by '91.

 

Historically speaking, the US was almost never in danger of having to pit sparrow-armed aircraft vs. ER equipped aircraft.

[Ragnarok]

Further, they're probably not very capable against the US fielding integrated ECM...

Such the ultimate opinion too resembles the magic although practice did not provide confirmation. All assumptions, analysis, interpretation, information and military exercises are not the measure of reality. The only real war in the field is the only authoritative thing. All other admixtures containing of cheering.

Of course, I respect anyone who knows and follows the theme, and tries to comprehend...

[GGTharos]

I think the magic here is that you somehow try to foster the belief that the modeled aircraft - the Su-27S, and its weapons are somehow on par with a modernized F-15.

 

But that's just IMHO, and it's why I put that 'probably' up there.

 

If you really have respect for people who studies the subject, I strongly suggest ... studying the subject.