-VSAAF- Sender Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Hi all I'm trying to research real life air defence (land based) systems as would be found in 1st world airfields. This info I'd like to incorporate into my mission builds. Unfortunately I can't seem to find much info (SAM/AAA unit types and quantity etc.) and since I haven't served on an airbase I'm a bit out of options. Anyone here perhaps have some reference material or personal experience? I presume the quantities would be increased during war time... by how much? Thanks for any help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 (edited) Hi all I'm trying to research real life air defence (land based) systems as would be found in 1st world airfields. This info I'd like to incorporate into my mission builds. Unfortunately I can't seem to find much info (SAM/AAA unit types and quantity etc.) and since I haven't served on an airbase I'm a bit out of options. Anyone here perhaps have some reference material or personal experience? I presume the quantities would be increased during war time... by how much? Thanks for any help! There has been good threads/posts about the airfield defense layouts from soviets that you should be able find with the search function. If I remember correctly, the typical airfield defense was a 2-4km circle from center point of the airfield diagonally placed by Shilkas, then there were OSA on center in twice and the to the direction of the enemy there was very heavy SAM site installation about 10km from the airfield. http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/exercises.htm there are some mockups on nellis airbase. Found from my bookmarks: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-SAM-Site-Configs-A.html (thanks to Google Chrome to sync bookmarks so easily between all computers) Edited June 25, 2015 by Fri13 i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkFire Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Ah, that's just what I was going to post :smilewink: I know that UK forward airfields used Rapier deployments some distance away from the actual field, probably aligned with the expected attack direction. We never had medium-long range SAM systems except the Bloodhound, but that's going WAY back. I'm guessing that most CENTCOM NATO airfields probably used US Hawk batteries combined with close-in defences such as the Gepard etc. System Spec: Cooler Master Cosmos C700P Black Edition case. | AMD 5950X CPU | MSI RTX-3090 GPU | 32GB HyperX Predator PC4000 RAM | | TM Warthog stick & throttle | TrackIR 5 | Samsung 980 Pro NVMe 4 SSD 1TB (boot) | Samsung 870 QVO SSD 4TB (games) | Windows 10 Pro 64-bit. Personal wish list: DCS: Su-27SM & DCS: Avro Vulcan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-VSAAF- Sender Posted June 25, 2015 Author Share Posted June 25, 2015 There has been good threads/posts about the airfield defense layouts from soviets that you should be able find with the search function. If I remember correctly, the typical airfield defense was a 2-4km circle from center point of the airfield diagonally placed by Shilkas, then there were OSA on center in twice and the to the direction of the enemy there was very heavy SAM site installation about 10km from the airfield. http://www.dreamlandresort.com/info/exercises.htm there are some mockups on nellis airbase. Found from my bookmarks: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-SAM-Site-Configs-A.html (thanks to Google Chrome to sync bookmarks so easily between all computers) Thanks Fri13 - that's some very insightful information you shared. I've only just skimmed through it (a lot of info to work through-which I will do) so forgive me if I missed it but I don't seem to see any detail on the unit spread and average quantity. The mission I'm building is set at Gelendzhik and follows a scenario of invasion by Ukraine in the region. Novorossiyk has been abandoned and consolidated at Gelendzhik. Now I'm trying to work out what unit quantities would/could be realistically deployed at the airbase in preparation of air strikes to open the skies for air support for an invasion of Gelendzhik by Ukrainian forces. The area of control for the Russians is about 180km2 (12km x 15km) - pretty much the basin. Knowing that Russia has a huge arsenal of weapons and that any major coastal airbase should be well defended (and taking into account the possible weapons stores transfer from a neighbouring base's evacuation) - would something like: 4x TOR, 20x IGLA MANPADS, 2x Tunguska, 15x Shilka, 30x AAA implacements and 4x BUK launchers - deployed across the terrain be anywhere near a reasonable guess? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOnTheOP Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Thanks Fri13 - that's some very insightful information you shared. I've only just skimmed through it (a lot of info to work through-which I will do) so forgive me if I missed it but I don't seem to see any detail on the unit spread and average quantity. The mission I'm building is set at Gelendzhik and follows a scenario of invasion by Ukraine in the region. Novorossiyk has been abandoned and consolidated at Gelendzhik. Now I'm trying to work out what unit quantities would/could be realistically deployed at the airbase in preparation of air strikes to open the skies for air support for an invasion of Gelendzhik by Ukrainian forces. The area of control for the Russians is about 180km2 (12km x 15km) - pretty much the basin. Knowing that Russia has a huge arsenal of weapons and that any major coastal airbase should be well defended (and taking into account the possible weapons stores transfer from a neighbouring base's evacuation) - would something like: 4x TOR, 20x IGLA MANPADS, 2x Tunguska, 15x Shilka, 30x AAA implacements and 4x BUK launchers - deployed across the terrain be anywhere near a reasonable guess? For the US, I can assure you that you will never, EVER see a USAF airfield in an active combat theater (with hostile air or ballistic missile threat) without at least one PATRIOT battery defending it. More likely, they will have a full PATRIOT battalion. The basic battery consists of a command van, radar system, 8 PATRIOT launchers, 2 MANPADS teams (Stinger) for close-in defense, and maintenance and reload teams. A Battalion contains five batteries. They would not be physically close to each other, but spread out 30-40 miles apart from each other, possibly more. Perhaps two batteries would be within 5 or 6 miles of the airfield; if this was done, it would mostly be to maximize radar coverage Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutOnTheOP Posted June 25, 2015 Share Posted June 25, 2015 Thanks Fri13 - that's some very insightful information you shared. I've only just skimmed through it (a lot of info to work through-which I will do) so forgive me if I missed it but I don't seem to see any detail on the unit spread and average quantity. The mission I'm building is set at Gelendzhik and follows a scenario of invasion by Ukraine in the region. Novorossiyk has been abandoned and consolidated at Gelendzhik. Now I'm trying to work out what unit quantities would/could be realistically deployed at the airbase in preparation of air strikes to open the skies for air support for an invasion of Gelendzhik by Ukrainian forces. The area of control for the Russians is about 180km2 (12km x 15km) - pretty much the basin. Knowing that Russia has a huge arsenal of weapons and that any major coastal airbase should be well defended (and taking into account the possible weapons stores transfer from a neighbouring base's evacuation) - would something like: 4x TOR, 20x IGLA MANPADS, 2x Tunguska, 15x Shilka, 30x AAA implacements and 4x BUK launchers - deployed across the terrain be anywhere near a reasonable guess? Doubtful they'd have that many AAA emplacements; AA guns aren't widely used, and haven't been for years. The one place they've had a niche is in the VERY forward elements, primarily for use against attack helicopters. On an airfield, I doubt it. Maybe a half dozen .50 cal guns, but those would be more for ground defense against infiltrators than for air defense. Your missile setup is, if anything, a bit on the light side. Perhaps too many IGLA (not that it's improbable to find that many, but they usually wouldn't have that many because they're just the backup to the more capable systems). SA11/ BUK is normally operated in a battery of six, not four. Chances are excellent there would be an SA-10 (S300) or SA-21 (S400) battery within 20 miles of the base as well. These would be a control van, EW radar, tracking radar, and 6-12 launchers *edit* Mind you, these are the realistic numbers for Russian or US defense of military airbases. They may be realistic, but they most certainly wouldn't be much fun to fly a mission against... at least, unless you're a real masochist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thanks Fri13 - that's some very insightful information you shared. I've only just skimmed through it (a lot of info to work through-which I will do) so forgive me if I missed it but I don't seem to see any detail on the unit spread and average quantity. The AusAirPower site gives good example of the amounts. Like look the S-75 air coverage maps or so on. There isn't much on the areas but the coverage is pretty huge. Like example S-75 SAM site coverage for Syria: And if we combine that with the S-125 you get this: The following image depicts the coverage provided by identified active S-125 sites (blue) and S-75 sites (red) around the metropolitan areas of northeastern Egypt: The aus air power site gives all the details about amount, size of the site, examples for how to position those and what are in the sites included. Like example for that: i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fri13 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 And this was as well something I found from somewhere: So that lists how much more the Warsaw Pact combined had arsenal more than NATO combined. i7-8700k, 32GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 2x 2080S SLI 8GB, Oculus Rift S. i7-8700k, 16GB 2666Mhz DDR4, 1080Ti 11GB, 27" 4K, 65" HDR 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nerdwing Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 *edit* Mind you, these are the realistic numbers for Russian or US defense of military airbases. They may be realistic, but they most certainly wouldn't be much fun to fly a mission against... at least, unless you're a real masochist. Or until we get the Hornet! :P Cant wait to fly SEAD versus that kind of network. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBlemmen Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Or until we get the Hornet! :P Cant wait to fly SEAD versus that kind of network. su 25t can do sead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentconvo Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 su 25t can do sead It can but it is pretty bad at it. Poor rate of climb and really bad altitude performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CASoldier2014 Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I know there's a massive amount of air defences around Moscow, so you might wanna look there. [sIGPIC][/sIGPIC] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-VSAAF- Sender Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 Thanks for all the info guys. Much appreciated. :thumbup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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